• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Scientists uncover 20 genes linked to being transgender – supporting claims the condition has a phys

celticwar17 said:
I don't see why you wouldn't classify it as a mental disorder. Humans are sexually dimorphic species. If something occurs that disrupts that dimorphism, that is an anomaly.

Again, this doesn't make trans people any less or more...

I can't help but to think this argument about the semantics of whether transgenderism is a mental disorder or not, is based on whether it hurts peoples feelings...
Click to expand...
No, it hurts your feelings to think Transgender people are not mentally ill, so you ignore the science to feel better about your own prejudices.
 
Renae said:
No, it hurts your feelings to think Transgender people are not mentally ill, so you ignore the science to feel better about your own prejudices.
Click to expand...

I don't have any feelings about transgender people... I have transgender and gay friends...and a family member whom I grew up with my entire life who is trans-gendered.

It simply makes no sense to me why it wouldn't be classified as a mental disorder. If you can try to build your case against it, I'd like to hear.... I can say for certain though... whether there is a genetic link or not... has absolutely nothing to do with whether something is a mental illness or not.
 
Last edited:
celticwar17 said:
I don't have any feelings about transgender people... I have transgender and gay friends...and a family member whom I grew up with my entire life who is trans-gendered.

It simply makes no sense to me why it wouldn't be classified as a mental disorder. If you can try to build your case against it, I'd like to hear.... I can say for certain though... whether there is a genetic link or not... has absolutely nothing to do with whether something is a mental illness or not.
Click to expand...

I'm sure you do. It makes no sense to you because you choose to not understand the matter.
 
Renae said:
I'm sure you do. It makes no sense to you because you choose to not understand the matter.
Click to expand...

I believe I offered for you to try to educate me. All you seem interested in... is not debating xD
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
No, that is incorrect. Gender Dysphoric Disorder is a disorder that often affects transsexuals, however, transsexuality, in and of itself is not a mental illness.
Click to expand...

Okay, so just to be perfectly clear on the matter, gender dysphoria is a mental disorder? Not transsexuality.
 
celticwar17 said:
I believe I offered for you to try to educate me. All you seem interested in... is not debating xD
Click to expand...

Celtic, with all due respect, man, why should she? You set out with the premise that you think that transgendered folks are that way due to mental illness. You reject the work of professionals with a lot more expertise on the subject than you do...and you aren't accusing them of mental illness.

Don't see what Renae gets out of going down this road with you, given your prejudices on this topic. If you think about it, are you surprised at the response you're getting?
 
OlNate said:
Celtic, with all due respect, man, why should she? You set out with the premise that you think that transgendered folks are that way due to mental illness. You reject the work of professionals with a lot more expertise on the subject than you do...and you aren't accusing them of mental illness.

Don't see what Renae gets out of going down this road with you, given your prejudices on this topic. If you think about it, are you surprised at the response you're getting?
Click to expand...
Is this not a debate website?

Why would I accuse professionals of mental illness? And it's not an accusation.... no one has done anything wrong or illegal lol, it is a state of being that is completely not anyone's fault... see you are proving my own point for me, this is entirely an emotional issue for you. No one is accusing anyone of anything.

Transgender-ism has been declared a mental illness for many decades. The only reason I see people trying to change this fact is because activist are demanding it.

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders has it very clear.

And you can see a better description right here, describing gender dysphoria as a mental illness...https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria

I think people are taking it being a mental illness as an insult... which is kind of insulting to mentally ill people in my opinion... Hell, technically I have a mental illness, I was diagnosed with an anxiety disorder.
 
Last edited:
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Yup. And utterly unsurprising, given what we already know about neurological differences in trans people (which we can physically point out, but did not previously know the genetic cause of).

But something that's always perplexed me when people say it's "all in your mind"... these people do know our "minds" are an organ, which can physically vary between people, right? So... how does something being "in your mind" make it less real? I've never gotten that.

At the end of the day, the difference between mental illness and neurological condition is pretty damn slim, and a number of things have crossed from being considered one to the other over the course of time.
Click to expand...

I disagree. The brain is an organ. The mind is a concept.
 
Little early to know the validity of the research, since they presented at a conference and it hasn't gone into peer review, but likely their paper should publish shortly to see.

Anyway, nobody is really surprised about this. Nature-nurture makes people what they are, so no surprising genes likely play a role. Finding the links are difficult because its a complex interplay of many genes.
 
Sampson Simpson said:
Little early to know the validity of the research, since they presented at a conference and it hasn't gone into peer review, but likely their paper should publish shortly to see.

Anyway, nobody is really surprised about this. Nature-nurture makes people what they are, so no surprising genes likely play a role. Finding the links are difficult because its a complex interplay of many genes.
Click to expand...

All it means is that there are certain genes that can increase the chances of your sexual development to develop improperly. There are also probably epigenetic factors as well. Homosexuality seems to be a whom development issue, where the fetus doesn't get the right hormone hits at certain times. Anyone with genes who can make you have improper hormone changes in pregnancy, would have a higher chance of creating homosexual children. This of course isn't the only factor there could be many things at play.

I have seen studies that hyper sexual women and women who experience a lot of anxiety during pregnancy have a higher chance of birthing a homosexual child.
 
celticwar17 said:
Is this not a debate website?

Why would I accuse professionals of mental illness? And it's not an accusation.... no one has done anything wrong or illegal lol, it is a state of being that is completely not anyone's fault... see you are proving my own point for me, this is entirely an emotional issue for you. No one is accusing anyone of anything.

Transgender-ism has been declared a mental illness for many decades. The only reason I see people trying to change this fact is because activist are demanding it.

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders has it very clear.

And you can see a better description right here, describing gender dysphoria as a mental illness...https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria

I think people are taking it being a mental illness as an insult... which is kind of insulting to mentally ill people in my opinion... Hell, technically I have a mental illness, I was diagnosed with an anxiety disorder.
Click to expand...

lol...come on, man. People have always associated mental illness (or worse, Satanic influence, example to follow) with things they don't understand. This one is going to ring true with some of our more senior members, I'm sure...my 90 year old grandmother was beaten repeatedly in school, to the point where she had to train herself to rework her brain to be something she's not.

Her crime: She was LEFT HANDED. Traditional wisdom stated that "left-hand-ism" was not only a sign of mental illness, but also a sign of demonic influence.

The implications of genetic links to transgenderism essentially means that rather than their reaction being a mentally ill response to being a gender they would, for "crazy reasons", rather not be, it is a perfectly mentally healthy reaction to a biological ailment of having their gender misaligned to their healthy, psychological, natural identity.

Don't believe me? Let me just ask you this... After a rough night of drinking, you find that someone has performed a gender reassignment surgery on you. Do the parts dictate the identity, and you finish your life as a woman, or do you go under the knife again to get your male bits back? As much as you are who you are, they are who they are.

And as someone who suffers from General Anxiety Disorder myself, I'm pretty over the whole notion that things people are afraid of or don't like get classified as mental illness by default, especially when our knowledge has advanced past the wisdom of 50 years ago, and we know better, as is the case here. In direct juxtaposition to your stance on mental illness not being an insult, I find that calling everything mental illness not only stigmatizes the person being accused of being "crazy", but it also further stigmatizes people with actual mental illness.

At the end of the day, sure, this is a debate site. But we also spend a lot of time together, and even amongst differing opinions we become friendly, if not friends. No one takes the skulls of their enemies home at the end of the day. Therefore I think it's appropriate to show a little bit of class and empathy when discussing these subjects, the more personal ones that impact us on a deep level. That's just my opinion, of course...for whatever it's worth.
 
OlNate said:
lol...come on, man. People have always associated mental illness (or worse, Satanic influence, example to follow) with things they don't understand. This one is going to ring true with some of our more senior members, I'm sure...my 90 year old grandmother was beaten repeatedly in school, to the point where she had to train herself to rework her brain to be something she's not.

Her crime: She was LEFT HANDED. Traditional wisdom stated that "left-hand-ism" was not only a sign of mental illness, but also a sign of demonic influence.

The implications of genetic links to transgenderism essentially means that rather than their reaction being a mentally ill response to being a gender they would, for "crazy reasons", rather not be, it is a perfectly mentally healthy reaction to a biological ailment of having their gender misaligned to their healthy, psychological, natural identity.

Don't believe me? Let me just ask you this... After a rough night of drinking, you find that someone has performed a gender reassignment surgery on you. Do the parts dictate the identity, and you finish your life as a woman, or do you go under the knife again to get your male bits back? As much as you are who you are, they are who they are.

And as someone who suffers from General Anxiety Disorder myself, I'm pretty over the whole notion that things people are afraid of or don't like get classified as mental illness by default, especially when our knowledge has advanced past the wisdom of 50 years ago, and we know better, as is the case here. In direct juxtaposition to your stance on mental illness not being an insult, I find that calling everything mental illness not only stigmatizes the person being accused of being "crazy", but it also further stigmatizes people with actual mental illness.

At the end of the day, sure, this is a debate site. But we also spend a lot of time together, and even amongst differing opinions we become friendly, if not friends. No one takes the skulls of their enemies home at the end of the day. Therefore I think it's appropriate to show a little bit of class and empathy when discussing these subjects, the more personal ones that impact us on a deep level. That's just my opinion, of course...for whatever it's worth.
Click to expand...

I simply do not have the dated definition of mental illness you do. I understand your emotional position a little bit better now... your'e doing the whole historic repressive word thing.

Mental illness does not necessarily mean "crazy"... you are confusing the insult with the actual definition. Like I said, I technically have a mental illness... I was diagnosed with anxiety... and it is also, largely genetic, but not entirely.
 
celticwar17 said:
I simply do not have the dated definition of mental illness you do. I understand your emotional position a little bit better now... your'e doing the whole historic repressive word thing.

Mental illness does not necessarily mean "crazy"... you are confusing the insult with the actual definition.
Click to expand...

hehe...Celtic...I'm well acquainted with the current definition of mental illness. If it makes things clearer, I don't want things you find "pleasant" being considered mental illness, if they are not, either. Illness, by it's definition, means a deviation from health, where health is considered to be "the norm". If transgenderism has it's roots in some of our genetic coding, then responding to it by identifying with it couldn't be more normal.
 
celticwar17 said:
I believe I offered for you to try to educate me. All you seem interested in... is not debating xD
Click to expand...

I tried to educate you, you dismiss the science because "I don't understand" is your response.
 
OlNate said:
Celtic, with all due respect, man, why should she? You set out with the premise that you think that transgendered folks are that way due to mental illness. You reject the work of professionals with a lot more expertise on the subject than you do...and you aren't accusing them of mental illness.

Don't see what Renae gets out of going down this road with you, given your prejudices on this topic. If you think about it, are you surprised at the response you're getting?
Click to expand...

If you don't try to correct such, others might think it's good information.
 
RAMOSS said:
I disagree. The brain is an organ. The mind is a concept.
Click to expand...

The mind is the voice of the organ, so to speak. It's the way that organ communicates within itself, in a way we perceive. So... saying they're not basically the same thing is like saying tht a human with locked-in syndrome is no longer a human. They've lost a major aspect of what most of us consider human ability, sure. But they're still a human.

There's no real difference between the mind and the brain. "Mind" is just the name we give to the brain's voice.
 
OlNate said:
hehe...Celtic...I'm well acquainted with the current definition of mental illness. If it makes things clearer, I don't want things you find "pleasant" being considered mental illness, if they are not, either. Illness, by it's definition, means a deviation from health, where health is considered to be "the norm". If transgenderism has it's roots in some of our genetic coding, then responding to it by identifying with it couldn't be more normal.
Click to expand...

That is certainly not what the genetics automatically suggest. You have no idea how the genes are tied to transgender-ism. They could be genes that make the mothers pregnancy to have unstable hormones which in turn cause a higher likelihood of a trans-gendered child. It could be epigenetic genes that turn on in specific childhood experiences. It could be different genes that give above normal sexual drive, but when the two genes combine they result in a higher transgender-ism likelihood.
It is not suggesting that if you cloned a trans-gendered person and grown them in a lab that clone would also be transgendered.

transgenderism happens when something goes wrong in human sexual development that causes gender dysphoria. That likelyhood can increase with certain genes and certain genetic combinations in certain environments probably for a infinite amount of reasons.

The only reason why it's called a mental disorder is because the part of the brain that attributes sexual drive to the opposite sex did not form properly.

If someone was a Hermaphrodite, you would say their sexual organs did not develop properly, I am sure there are genes that can increase the chance for hermaphrodites... why is transgender-ism any different?
 
Last edited:
celticwar17 said:
You know very well that that was changed because of activism and for not any other reason.
Click to expand...

I don't know that I agree with that. Political activism might have prompted the change but I don't believe that it is the sole reason for the change.

It's may have caused them to reevaluate.

Psychology is a science and for lack of a better term it is a soft science.

Even the term mental disorder is based on some subjective things. What may cause a mental disorder for someone may not cause the next person a problem at all. It's different than medicine in that regard.
 
CLAX1911 said:
I don't know that I agree with that. Political activism might have prompted the change but I don't believe that it is the sole reason for the change.

It's may have caused them to reevaluate.
Click to expand...

I don't find that to be the case, most psychologist's I know consider it a mental illness(and I know a lot, my significant other works at a university, in the psych department, She is a lab coordinator for a study about psychosis... she has a masters degree in Psychology) ... like I pointed out on the website. It is 100% activism, you can easily hunt down the reasons when you look for why it has been changed in some manuals.
 
CLAX1911 said:
consider what a mental illness?
Click to expand...

Gender Dysphoria.... I thought it was obvious what i was talking about.

Gender dysphoria - as a general descriptive term refers to an individual’s discontent with the assigned gender. It is more specifically defined when used as a diagnosis.

Those who are transgender...

  • Transgender - refers to the broad spectrum of individuals who transiently or persistently identify with a gender different from their gender at birth. (Note: the term transgendered is not generally used.

have gender dysphoria...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom