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Reasons Victims Do Not Tell Their Stories of Sexual Violence

pillars said:
So why was your emphasis on the timing? Do you actually question the honesty of the more than 30 victims/witnesses involved in telling their stories?
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Yes.

These so-called abuses were allegedly in private, so where do the 30 witnesses come from?
 
Rosie1 said:
There are many reason it takes a long time for the victims to come forward. 1) Thirty years ago it was not talked about much, 2) They may have seen how victims in other cases were put on trial by opinion, as much or more than the abuser, 3) They may have been in denial for a long time or merely refuse to remember it happening.

Back in my childhood, the kids whispered to each other which uncle to avoid. We did not tell our parents.

I'm not surprised about the **** hitting the fan now, or the "Me Too" movement. It kind of makes me think of the line in a song "We're not going to take it any more."
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That could perhaps be a factor -- for sure. But we know that false allegations not only occur, but that they are on the rise, so isn't it prudent to proceed with caution?
 
Of coarse, proceed with caution. But, in Moore's and other cases, did they not think it was going to come out eventually? Or worse, arrogantly knowing it could come out, but thinking that it's okay, their careers would climb anyway.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Not at all close I dont think....what I am saying is for a lot of people they are already in pain and if they go and report then they are going to be in even more pain, not because they are not believed or not treated right as everyone says, but because the abuser is going to be abused by the system and most everybody else too. And they dont deserve that, what they did was wrong, and a lot of times they have already admitted that they were wrong, but they dont deserve THAT.

THAT's why they dont report. Then the feminsts count them up and start selling the idea that the whole lot of them dont report because they dont believe they will be believed or they dont believe in the system because it does not hit men hard enough....you know, their agenda.

There will be no proof offered NATCH.
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Yeah, good point. On one hand, abused people aren't necessarily vindictive. On the other hand, they may not want to share their story because it is too painful.

I've wondered before if rape and sexual assault should be considered to be legally distinct categories. Or if rape should be considered criminal by the absence of consent, which is difficult to prove, and not other criteria such as a difference in age, drugs and alcohol, physical and emotional abuse, etc.

- Is a man an abusive person or a criminal because he "comes on to" a woman? Should he go to jail and never find a job again in his field because he kissed a girl without declaring his intentions, and obtaining written consent in a sealed envelope, dated and signed?

Well, no. Did your grandma go to prison when she kissed you on the forehead? I should think not.

- What harm is done by someone who initiates sexual intercourse and eventually stops? The key word is eventually. How can a lesbian be accused of rape if there is no evidence of penetration, for instance?

What harm is done by someone who is asked to stop during consensual sexual intercourse, and eventually stops? To what extent are actions taken before stopping considered criminal?

Legally, men are disadvantaged by the law. But I think what you are talking about also includes children. They do not want to speak out against their parents. They may have witnessed or heard about abuses far worse than the ones they suffer, or think that it will be the last time if they are touched inappropriately or struck violently. The abuse is diminished without even saying anything, and forgotten by everyone.

Unfortunately, the legal system is imbalanced, and it disproportionately favors adult women. Women are still automatically treated as 'victim' and men as 'perpetrator.' Children are basically slaves.
 
Celebrity said:
Yeah, good point. On one hand, abused people aren't necessarily vindictive. On the other hand, they may not want to share their story because it is too painful.

I've wondered before if rape and sexual assault should be considered to be legally distinct categories. Or if rape should be considered criminal by the absence of consent, which is difficult to prove, and not other criteria such as a difference in age, drugs and alcohol, physical and emotional abuse, etc.

- Is a man an abusive person or a criminal because he "comes on to" a woman? Should he go to jail and never find a job again in his field because he kissed a girl without declaring his intentions, and obtaining written consent in a sealed envelope, dated and signed?

Well, no. Did your grandma go to prison when she kissed you on the forehead? I should think not.

- What harm is done by someone who initiates sexual intercourse and eventually stops? The key word is eventually. How can a lesbian be accused of rape if there is no evidence of penetration, for instance?

What harm is done by someone who is asked to stop during consensual sexual intercourse, and eventually stops? To what extent are actions taken before stopping considered criminal?

Legally, men are disadvantaged by the law. But I think what you are talking about also includes children. They do not want to speak out against their parents. They may have witnessed or heard about abuses far worse than the ones they suffer, or think that it will be the last time if they are touched inappropriately or struck violently. The abuse is diminished without even saying anything, and forgotten by everyone.

Unfortunately, the legal system is imbalanced, and it disproportionately favors adult women. Women are still automatically treated as 'victim' and men as 'perpetrator.' Children are basically slaves.
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The dirty little secret that should not be a secret because we should not be ignorant chumps ( but we are...generally...WE USED TO BE BETTER!) is that under the Feminists direction women are doing everything they can to collect all of the old benefits from the days when they were second class as they beat men into submission.

I am pretty sure that you SIR are well aware of how right I am.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
The dirty little secret that should not be a secret because we should not be ignorant chumps ( but we are...generally...WE USED TO BE BETTER!) is that under the Feminists direction women are doing everything they can to collect all of the old benefits from the days when they were second class as they beat men into submission.

I am pretty sure that you SIR are well aware of how right I am.
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Yes I am. I empathize with children who are sexually abused by a parental figure, whether that be the mother, father, or both. I know what it's like to not want your parents to get in trouble. Actually, I was trained by my parents to do this while crossing the border. So the concept of vouching for my parents was reinforced at an international border. It's pretty difficult to accuse someone of sexual assault 10, 20 or 30 years later, and after all, they fed and clothed you. Why not just let it go and move on?

Well, the cruel irony of my story is being forced to live with a parent who did abuse me as a child. At the beginning of my career, I was paying off student loan debt, and child support. So while I was paying for someone to prevent me from seeing my own son, I had to move back in with my abuser.

At work, I've had female supervisors quite often. I've never been sexually harassed by one, but I'd like to believe that I'd be believed if I had been, despite the corporate boner for equal gender representation in middle management. Both male and female victims of sexual assault should be considered with the same scrutiny, and they shouldn't have to accuse a man to be taken seriously.
 
Celebrity said:
Yes I am. I empathize with children who are sexually abused by a parental figure, whether that be the mother, father, or both. I know what it's like to not want your parents to get in trouble. Actually, I was trained by my parents to do this while crossing the border. So the concept of vouching for my parents was reinforced at an international border. It's pretty difficult to accuse someone of sexual assault 10, 20 or 30 years later, and after all, they fed and clothed you. Why not just let it go and move on?

Well, the cruel irony of my story is being forced to live with a parent who did abuse me as a child. At the beginning of my career, I was paying off student loan debt, and child support. So while I was paying for someone to prevent me from seeing my own son, I had to move back in with my abuser.

At work, I've had female supervisors quite often. I've never been sexually harassed by one, but I'd like to believe that I'd be believed if I had been, despite the corporate boner for equal gender representation in middle management. Both male and female victims of sexual assault should be considered with the same scrutiny, and they shouldn't have to accuse a man to be taken seriously.
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You and me should talk sometime you know, but not now as I am getting toasted/baked and am about to spend a wonderful evening with my wonderful wife as I am finishing up a modernized Lord Baltimore Cake with a chocolate macaroon garnish for a bake sale at her work tomorrow to benefit for the Union Mission Gospel homeless programs.

I am pretty pleased with what I call myself right at the moment.

And I GOTTA GO GO GO...

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:2wave:
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Plus waiting 40 years tells us both that they dont care very much about the society addressing their victimization and that they have no interest in being fair so once I add that up I get to "DON'T CARE" even before I get to your valid point about the timing here.
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Your life changes incredibly in 40 yrs. You dont know alot of the same people that, you may be retired or much more secure in your employment, the person that abused you may not be dead...or back in your life, the reasons are myriad but certainly, people live entire lifetimes in 40 yrs and even perspectives change, wounds start to heal, social responsibilities may take precedence over feelings, etc etc etc.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
The dirty little secret that should not be a secret because we should not be ignorant chumps ( but we are...generally...WE USED TO BE BETTER!) is that under the Feminists direction women are doing everything they can to collect all of the old benefits from the days when they were second class as they beat men into submission.

I am pretty sure that you SIR are well aware of how right I am.
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Huh, yeah? If that's the case, why didnt they come forward and 'punish' those men back when it was more easily proven AND they could have "scored for feminism"?

Are you claiming these women are just finding feminism now?
 
Lursa said:
Huh, yeah? If that's the case, why didnt they come forward and 'punish' those men back when it was more easily proven AND they could have "scored for feminism"?

Are you claiming these women are just finding feminism now?
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That's a great point Lursa. But I think that the people who benefited most from from punishing men back then are the same that benefit the most today, other men.

You are correct that feminism has grown since then, and with it, so has violence against men. Since women have come to have a greater share of power, so have women begun to abuse men more and more. I doubt that you could prove me wrong about the abusive trend.

However, perhaps you can point me to some statistic on shelters that accept both men and women. After watching some of Cassie Jaye's "Red Pill Raw Files," it's come to my attention that there are still very few shelters that accept male victims of domestic violence. Maybe you can provide more information which shows that as abuse against men has either increased, or our awareness of such abuse has increased, so has our mercy and compassion for male victims been magnified. Do you think you can do that?
 
By the way, the point of Hawkeyes post was that feminists want to retain advantages they had as a result of sexism, while discarding disadvantages. In order to capitalize on "progress in the home," for instance, a woman might like a man to cook and clean, but shouldn't want to be the sole breadwinner. Spending time earning money is costly (in terms of time).

This is besides the point of sexual violence. Lursa, perhaps you could imagine an example of which women benefit from social protections which existed only for women (sexism in favor) in exchange for some form of sexism which was not in favor of women. How were women sexually repressed in ways which also benefited them (or were disadvantageous to men), and why do feminists want to keep the benefits while discarding the costs?
 
Celebrity said:
That's a great point Lursa. But I think that the people who benefited most from from punishing men back then are the same that benefit the most today, other men.

You are correct that feminism has grown since then, and with it, so has violence against men. Since women have come to have a greater share of power, so have women begun to abuse men more and more. I doubt that you could prove me wrong about the abusive trend.

However, perhaps you can point me to some statistic on shelters that accept both men and women. After watching some of Cassie Jaye's "Red Pill Raw Files," it's come to my attention that there are still very few shelters that accept male victims of domestic violence. Maybe you can provide more information which shows that as abuse against men has either increased, or our awareness of such abuse has increased, so has our mercy and compassion for male victims been magnified. Do you think you can do that?
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I dont claim them coming forward has anything to do with feminism.
 
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