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Parents of a baby decide not to recognize it's gender. [W:139]

CLAX1911

CLAX1911

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https://www.google.com/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/40480386

So there are a few things I don't understand here.

So it seems this gender/sex dichotomy tends to blur based on the need. The birth certificate they didn't want to indicate sex. Why? They can put the child I green oneses and let them pick toys from the girls isle and the boys isle, and still say they're a boy or a girl. It's weird to me when we're talking about sex that it's either completely separate from gender unless we're talking about non binary gender.

Another thing is the concept of assigning sex. Sex isn't assigned it's observed it's anatomical. I really don't know what they mean by assigning sex. If the child wind up being transgender well they can transition. One of his parents is trans and I would think that that was the last thing you'd want for your child. It isn't easy.

Does someone else have some insight here what are your thoughts and opinions?
 
Re: Parents of a baby decide not to recognize it's gender.

CLAX1911 said:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/40480386

So there are a few things I don't understand here.

So it seems this gender/sex dichotomy tends to blur based on the need. The birth certificate they didn't want to indicate sex. Why? They can put the child I green oneses and let them pick toys from the girls isle and the boys isle, and still say they're a boy or a girl. It's weird to me when we're talking about sex that it's either completely separate from gender unless we're talking about non binary gender.

Another thing is the concept of assigning sex. Sex isn't assigned it's observed it's anatomical. I really don't know what they mean by assigning sex. If the child wind up being transgender well they can transition. One of his parents is trans and I would think that that was the last thing you'd want for your child. It isn't easy.

Does someone else have some insight here what are your thoughts and opinions?
Click to expand...

Most people caught up in this pseudo identity-1st world problem-faux crisis don't actually know the difference between gender and sex. That's why you get idiots like these people in Canada.
 
Re: Parents of a baby decide not to recognize it's gender.

reinoe said:
Most people caught up in this pseudo identity-1st world problem-faux crisis don't actually know the difference between gender and sex. That's why you get idiots like these people in Canada.
Click to expand...

I really think they were trying to pull the wool over our eyes. Insisting sex and gender is different. It seems to be synonymous when we're talking about sex when it comes to records.

It's because it was always about sex and never really about what they're referring to as gender.

That's my opinion at least.
 
Re: Parents of a baby decide not to recognize it's gender.

This child is gonna be so ****ed up growing with these loons.
 
Re: Parents of a baby decide not to recognize it's gender.

CLAX1911 said:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/40480386

So there are a few things I don't understand here.

So it seems this gender/sex dichotomy tends to blur based on the need. The birth certificate they didn't want to indicate sex. Why? They can put the child I green oneses and let them pick toys from the girls isle and the boys isle, and still say they're a boy or a girl. It's weird to me when we're talking about sex that it's either completely separate from gender unless we're talking about non binary gender.

Another thing is the concept of assigning sex. Sex isn't assigned it's observed it's anatomical. I really don't know what they mean by assigning sex. If the child wind up being transgender well they can transition. One of his parents is trans and I would think that that was the last thing you'd want for your child. It isn't easy.

Does someone else have some insight here what are your thoughts and opinions?
Click to expand...

This is what happens when people take a legitimate issue and go WAY, WAY too far with it. Since we cannot know whether or not someone is trans until quite some time down the road, it makes sense to identify a baby born as it's anatomical gender. As you said, if they are trans, they can transition. These people have taken their identification with this issue to an absurd place.
 
Re: Parents of a baby decide not to recognize it's gender.

Honey, will you please change "it's" diapers?
 
Re: Parents of a baby decide not to recognize it's gender.

CLAX1911 said:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/40480386

So there are a few things I don't understand here.

So it seems this gender/sex dichotomy tends to blur based on the need. The birth certificate they didn't want to indicate sex. Why? They can put the child I green oneses and let them pick toys from the girls isle and the boys isle, and still say they're a boy or a girl. It's weird to me when we're talking about sex that it's either completely separate from gender unless we're talking about non binary gender.

Another thing is the concept of assigning sex. Sex isn't assigned it's observed it's anatomical. I really don't know what they mean by assigning sex. If the child wind up being transgender well they can transition. One of his parents is trans and I would think that that was the last thing you'd want for your child. It isn't easy.

Does someone else have some insight here what are your thoughts and opinions?
Click to expand...

No, I don't.

I support transgender rights. I accept the science that indicates that neurological sex (or what we layfolk call gender) is one part of overall sex, and like any other part of sex, it does not always align with all the others, just like intersex conditions which involve conflicting sex chromosomes, anatomy, or hormones. I also believe we need to stop harshly forcing gender performance onto children who have not yet even gotten the opportunity to express what they like for themselves.

But no, I cannot explain this ridiculousness to you.

Because you are right. No one "assigns" anatomical sex. It is right there, plainly visible. It is true that anatomical sex does not always indicate chromosomal or neurological sex, but that isn't the damn point of it. The point is to note their anatomical sex, which is the aspect of sex that would be most important for neonatal to know at the hospital for medical reasons.

So no. I have no damn idea what these people are thinking, or if they even possess the brain matter to think with.
 
Re: Parents of a baby decide not to recognize it's gender.

RetiredUSN said:
Honey, will you please change "it's" diapers?
Click to expand...

How dare you identify the baby as it! The being(PC enough?) can identify as whatever the being wants to be! Did you ask to call the being as "it" before you assaulted the being with your bigoted language?
 
Re: Parents of a baby decide not to recognize it's gender.

CLAX1911 said:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/40480386

So there are a few things I don't understand here.

So it seems this gender/sex dichotomy tends to blur based on the need. The birth certificate they didn't want to indicate sex. Why? They can put the child I green oneses and let them pick toys from the girls isle and the boys isle, and still say they're a boy or a girl. It's weird to me when we're talking about sex that it's either completely separate from gender unless we're talking about non binary gender.

Another thing is the concept of assigning sex. Sex isn't assigned it's observed it's anatomical. I really don't know what they mean by assigning sex. If the child wind up being transgender well they can transition. One of his parents is trans and I would think that that was the last thing you'd want for your child. It isn't easy.

Does someone else have some insight here what are your thoughts and opinions?
Click to expand...

Seems clear to me:

"I'm raising Searyl in in such a way that until they have the sense of self and command of vocabulary to tell me who they are, I'm recognising them as a baby and trying to give them all the love and support to be the most whole person that they can be outside of the restrictions that come with the boy box and the girl box," the parent was quoted by CBC as saying...

"When I was born, doctors looked at my genitals and made assumptions about who I would be, and those assignments followed me and followed my identification throughout my life," Kori Doty said.
"Those assumptions were incorrect, and I ended up having to do a lot of adjustments since then."
Click to expand...

They want a clean slate, without expectations based on sex/gender. They're not interested in saying the child is a boy or a girl, as you propose. They're interested in the child determining their own gender, as opposed to physical attributes establishing gender. After all, gender is established by hormones in the womb, not genitalia.
 
Re: Parents of a baby decide not to recognize it's gender.

We know from people with Gender Dysmporphia that sense of sex comes from neurological structure. So surely refusing to acknowledge the child's gender would cause similar trauma to what people with GDD go through?
 
Re: Parents of a baby decide not to recognize it's gender.

spud_meister said:
We know from people with Gender Dysmporphia that sense of sex comes from neurological structure. So surely refusing to acknowledge the child's gender would cause similar trauma to what people with GDD go through?
Click to expand...

No, because a gender is not being assigned by others. The child will ascertain their own gender by means far superior to physical traits (introspection).
 
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Re: Parents of a baby decide not to recognize it's gender.

ecofarm said:
No, because a gender is not being assigned by others. The child will ascertain their own gender by means far superior to physical traits (introspection).
Click to expand...

:lol: Introspection? If nothing else, the kid will compare genitals with other children and go from there. Physiology and culture will determine the kids gender expression long before the kid is old enough to be introspective about gender theory.
 
Re: Parents of a baby decide not to recognize it's gender.

spud_meister said:
:lol: Introspection? If nothing else, the kid will compare genitals with other children and go from there.
Click to expand...

At what age did you start doing that?

Physiology and culture will determine the kids gender expression long before the kid is old enough to be introspective about gender theory.
Click to expand...

Wrong. Children are aware of what gender they identify with. No theory is needed.
 
Re: Parents of a baby decide not to recognize it's gender.

CLAX1911 said:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/40480386

So there are a few things I don't understand here.

So it seems this gender/sex dichotomy tends to blur based on the need. The birth certificate they didn't want to indicate sex. Why? They can put the child I green oneses and let them pick toys from the girls isle and the boys isle, and still say they're a boy or a girl. It's weird to me when we're talking about sex that it's either completely separate from gender unless we're talking about non binary gender.

Another thing is the concept of assigning sex. Sex isn't assigned it's observed it's anatomical. I really don't know what they mean by assigning sex. If the child wind up being transgender well they can transition. One of his parents is trans and I would think that that was the last thing you'd want for your child. It isn't easy.

Does someone else have some insight here what are your thoughts and opinions?
Click to expand...

The poor kid could of been an intersex miss of biology, but no. Instead the poor kid is being used in it's parents personal war against society and biology.
 
Re: Parents of a baby decide not to recognize it's gender.

ecofarm said:
Seems clear to me:



They want a clean slate, without expectations based on sex/gender. They're not interested in saying the child is a boy or a girl, as you propose. They're interested in the child determining their own gender, as opposed to physical attributes establishing gender. After all, gender is established by hormones in the womb, not genitalia.
Click to expand...

The child cannot determine it's own sex. It's determined by biology. Boy or girl is a sex.
 
Re: Parents of a baby decide not to recognize it's gender.

ecofarm said:
No, because a gender is not being assigned by others. The child will ascertain their own gender by means far superior to physical traits (introspection).
Click to expand...

Sex isn't assigned it's observed. I'm not talking about gender. From the descriptions here gender is developed. Thus every infant is "genderless" without being sexless.

This story is about the sex on the birth certificate not the gender. There isn't a place to indicate gender
 
Re: Parents of a baby decide not to recognize it's gender.

Hell we cant even be sure of its race, species, or if it born handicapped or not. It might grow up thinking its a green three legged alligator.
 
Re: Parents of a baby decide not to recognize it's gender.

ecofarm said:
At what age did you start doing that?



Wrong. Children are aware of what gender they identify with. No theory is needed.
Click to expand...

I disagree. I don't think children are aware of even the concept of gender. If it isn't sex it's neurological. Neurology is in a state of development at least until after puberty.
 
Re: Parents of a baby decide not to recognize it's gender.

VanceMack said:
Hell we cant even be sure of its race, species, or if it born handicapped or not. It might grow up thinking its a green three legged alligator.
Click to expand...

The part I'm having difficulty with is why do people say sex is assigned at birth? Sex is determined in the womb months before birth. It isn't assigned by anybody it's observed.
 
Re: Parents of a baby decide not to recognize it's gender.

CLAX1911 said:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/40480386

So there are a few things I don't understand here.

So it seems this gender/sex dichotomy tends to blur based on the need. The birth certificate they didn't want to indicate sex. Why? They can put the child I green oneses and let them pick toys from the girls isle and the boys isle, and still say they're a boy or a girl. It's weird to me when we're talking about sex that it's either completely separate from gender unless we're talking about non binary gender.

Another thing is the concept of assigning sex. Sex isn't assigned it's observed it's anatomical. I really don't know what they mean by assigning sex. If the child wind up being transgender well they can transition. One of his parents is trans and I would think that that was the last thing you'd want for your child. It isn't easy.

Does someone else have some insight here what are your thoughts and opinions?
Click to expand...
I predict the kid having a lot of problems every time it has to produce a birth certificate. It's bad enough when parents give their kids cutesy weird spellings of common names that the kid now has to spell and explain to everybody for their entire life. This is that same selfish inconsideration on steroids.
 
Re: Parents of a baby decide not to recognize it's gender.

CLAX1911 said:
The part I'm having difficulty with is why do people say sex is assigned at birth? Sex is determined in the womb months before birth. It isn't assigned by anybody it's observed.
Click to expand...
Once upon a time, even Bill Nye the Science Guy had enough integrity to state the scientific obvious. You (not 'you' per se) are a boy or a girl. Whether you FEEL like a boy or girl is irrelevant to what you are. WHY you may feel that way is similarly irrelevant. People would be SO MUCH BETTER served if the psycho-socialogical communities simply embraced scientific reality. If you are born a boy you are a boy. If you feel like you should have been born a girl...fine. But you werent. If you want to wear womens clothes and makeup to provide an exterior expression of what you feel, fine. If you want to have body parts lopped of and have your external appearance surgically altered to more appropriately align what you see in yourself with what you feel...happy days. But you are still a boy, that feels like a girl. Accept yourself and love yourself for who and what you are as well as who and what you feel you are, and you have a legit shot at happiness.
 
Re: Parents of a baby decide not to recognize it's gender.

VanceMack said:
Once upon a time, even Bill Nye the Science Guy had enough integrity to state the scientific obvious. You (not 'you' per se) are a boy or a girl. Whether you FEEL like a boy or girl is irrelevant to what you are. WHY you may feel that way is similarly irrelevant. People would be SO MUCH BETTER served if the psycho-socialogical communities simply embraced scientific reality. If you are born a boy you are a boy. If you feel like you should have been born a girl...fine. But you werent. If you want to wear womens clothes and makeup to provide an exterior expression of what you feel, fine. If you want to have body parts lopped of and have your external appearance surgically altered to more appropriately align what you see in yourself with what you feel...happy days. But you are still a boy, that feels like a girl. Accept yourself and love yourself for who and what you are as well as who and what you feel you are, and you have a legit shot at happiness.
Click to expand...

Your theory gives physical determination precedence over mental/chromosomal/neurological/hormonal determination. Why?

Why is 'actual boy who feels like a girl' more 'right' than 'actual girl trapped in boys body'?
 
Re: Parents of a baby decide not to recognize it's gender.

CLAX1911 said:
I disagree. I don't think children are aware of even the concept of gender. If it isn't sex it's neurological. Neurology is in a state of development at least until after puberty.
Click to expand...

Children have no concept of gender as a sociological thing. But they know whether they identify with males or females at a very early age. Gender is determined by hormones in the womb, not genitals.
 
Re: Parents of a baby decide not to recognize it's gender.

CLAX1911 said:
The part I'm having difficulty with is why do people say sex is assigned at birth? Sex is determined in the womb months before birth. It isn't assigned by anybody it's observed.
Click to expand...

Roles are assigned according to it. Sex is biological but gender is a matter of societal expectations. These roles must be adopted by an individual or they suffer ridicule. That's what the parents are trying to avoid, expectations based on illegitimate designations. The parents want the child to be free of those expectations, to discover for themself their gender identity, without pressure or social demands.

The child will know, probably by age ~5, their gender identity.

CLAX1911 said:
Sex isn't assigned it's observed. I'm not talking about gender. From the descriptions here gender is developed. Thus every infant is "genderless" without being sexless.

This story is about the sex on the birth certificate not the gender. There isn't a place to indicate gender
Click to expand...

Gender being assigned by sex is what they're trying to avoid. So that the child can gender identify without demands one way or the other.


Ya know, your OP was all ~"I don't understand, please explain". But that was BS. You don't understand and you don't care. Maybe you should listen and stop spewing ignorant crap.

In general, if something doesn't make any sense, it's because one does not have all the information. In this case, you're ignorant about gender and transgender issues. You don't have a base of information with which to process the event in question. I'm trying to give you that but you're only interested in being all high and mighty against the parents.

You're not treating this as an educational opportunity (despite rhetoric in the OP), you're treating this as the Jerry Springer show.
 
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Re: Parents of a baby decide not to recognize it's gender.

ecofarm said:
Roles are assigned according to it. Sex is biological but gender is a matter of societal expectations. These roles must be adopted by an individual or they suffer ridicule. That's what the parents are trying to avoid, expectations based on illegitimate designations. The parents what the child to be free of those expectations, to discover for themself their gender identity, without pressure or social demands.
Click to expand...

If gender is a social construct then why does it make sense for transgenders to change their biological being because they feel their gender is wrong? Isn't the conclusion that they need to change their biological reality for a social construct utterly illogical?

Anyway, not paying any mind to the child's gender simply because you believe yours is wrong is stupid. The trans parent doesn't seem to realize that not giving the child a direction is just as harmful as giving them the wrong direction. Still, it is better to try to give them a direction even if it is wrong then to refuse to give them any direction at all.
 
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