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Oregon Becomes First State to Issue Non-Binary Gender Driver's License[W:91]

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Full article: Oregon becomes first state to allow "not specified" gender on driver's license - CBS News

Oregon becomes first state to allow "not specified" gender on driver's license

Jun 16, 2017 10:00 AM EDT Politics

SALEM, Ore. -- In a move hailed by LGBT rights groups, Oregon became the first state in the U.S. on Thursday to allow residents to mark their gender as "not specified" on applications for driver's licenses, learner's permits and identity cards.

Under the new rule approved by the Oregon Transportation Commission, Oregonians who select the new option will have an X appear instead of M or F on those cards. The rule, which takes effect on July 3, is a first for the U.S., David House, spokesman for Oregon's Driver and Motor Vehicles Division, or DMV, told The Associated Press.


There is an old socio-political maxim: "Today's conservative is yesterday's liberal."

The meaning of the maxim is this: That conservatives inevitably shift their position leftward.

For myself, militant, rigid construct of "left" and "right" and "liberal" and "conservative" are inherently problematic anyways. The rigid constructs of both seem to at some point reject truth.

What I mean by that is this: liberals always seek revolt, destruction, and change and conservatives always seek to conserve the current order, to reject change.

The irony of course is that conservatives always do eventually cave in and champion the liberal position. Always. It is merely and issue of how fast they cave.

The liberal on the other hand must always seek to revolt against the parameters the conservatives have then chosen to accept. They must destroy more of the norms of society to remain liberal. If liberals were analogous to a city fire or forest fire they must always seek to keep the burning and destruction going, otherwise they cease to be "liberal" or that is to say cease being a city of forest fire.




So, remember when gay marriage first became an issue (prior to that in the '70s the LGB's claimed they did not want to invade the institution of marriage, they just wanted to be left alone by others), and the LGBT (the Q had not been attached to the end yet) and liberal Democrats claimed they didn't want to change other structures of society, they only wanted to let saintly homosexuals marry?

A lot of conservatives eventually caved into that. And while I'm not a conservative I knew that claim of the LGBT was a lie. Why? For a number of reasons but primarily I had already figured out by then that to be a liberal, to militantly and rigidly view yourself that way, you can only understand yourself, who you are, in relation to *contrasting* yourself from conservatives. So, a liberals must always seek a new revolution, more destruction. Kind of like a heroin addict builds up a tolerance to x amount of heroin and needs a greater amount to reach the same level of high.

So, conservatives will complain and reject. Until that is they cave and accept.

The other alternative is civil war. Or Islam which will restore order as it often has in history, but even with that they may only accomplish that by low intensity civil war in the US taking one city at a time, till they gain a state, etc.


(Future police warning to the public about serial rapist on the loose or a violent escaped prisoner: "A creature of unknown species with non-factual appearances within hue spectrum is on loose, known to harm children, the public ought be on the look out.") :lol:
 
Re: Oregon Becomes First State to Issue Non-Binary Gender Driver's License

Does not specified mean the same thing? It sounds more like "I don't want to tell you" than anything else.

As for your argument about conservatives, well, they basically stand for something only in the moment. Once they are beaten on social issues they move to the left and take up a new stand on ground that they once resisted standing on at all. There is a reason they are a laughing stock and that kind of nonsense is basically it.
 
Re: Oregon Becomes First State to Issue Non-Binary Gender Driver's License

An interesting discussion between Dr. Jordan Peterson and a transsexual.

I for the record, pretty much share the outlook of the transsexual woman in the video.

I also think Dr. Jordan Peterson makes some valid points too. That one can keep pushing boundaries to absurdity and then increasing numbers of people will actually shift more and more to oppose the LGBTQ or the newer LGBTQ++.

But I think being liberal, militantly and rigidly so anyways, forces you to always push boundaries more and more nonsensical and absurd. Because once conservatives given in to your demands, accept your constructs, then who are you if you are liberal? You are forced into an identity crisis. Because your whole being is only conceptualized in being at war with conservatives on some thing. Your identity is based on revolt from the norms of society.

So, I'm saying, unlike Dr. Peterson and the transsexual woman in the video, I don't think the process can be stopped (perhaps briefly halted, that's it). Not without the injection of violent civil war. That could come by a faction of conservatives or it could come by Muslims influenced by the dawa of the Muslim Brotherhood. Either way, I foresee violent civil war as the only antidote for the USA.


Dr. Jordan Peterson Chats with a Reasonable Trans Person
(The audio of the video clears up at about the 8:40 mark of the video.)
 
Re: Oregon Becomes First State to Issue Non-Binary Gender Driver's License

The muslims are coming, the muslims are coming, the muslims are coming ....
 
Re: Oregon Becomes First State to Issue Non-Binary Gender Driver's License

Ummm you left out the most important scenario...until God's patience runs out...and no, not everyone caves...
 
Re: Oregon Becomes First State to Issue Non-Binary Gender Driver's License

But I think being liberal, militantly and rigidly so anyways, forces you to always push boundaries more and more nonsensical and absurd. Because once conservatives given in to your demands, accept your constructs, then who are you if you are liberal? You are forced into an identity crisis. Because your whole being is only conceptualized in being at war with conservatives on some thing. Your identity is based on revolt from the norms of society.

No doubt. It always seems like they are on the move for no other reason than to be on the move. Where they are going and where they have been doesn't seem to be all that important to them, but their current beliefs that they just came up with five minutes ago is very important.
 
Re: Oregon Becomes First State to Issue Non-Binary Gender Driver's License

Ummm you left out the most important scenario...until God's patience runs out...and no, not everyone caves...

God has stood by through countless genocides, wars, murders, rapes, earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, and plagues. Literally billions of people killed over the centuries. I think "two men want to settle down and live a happy life together and be left alone to do it" doesn't rank high on big G's list of reasons to end the world.

But you know what? Let's say it's true. God is totally fine with everything else I just mentioned, but he's going to put his foot down on the two dudes in a monogamous relationship. That's where he draws the line. If that's true? **** Him. I will not bow down to a monster.
 
Re: Oregon Becomes First State to Issue Non-Binary Gender Driver's License

God has stood by through countless genocides, wars, murders, rapes, earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, and plagues. Literally billions of people killed over the centuries. I think "two men want to settle down and live a happy life together and be left alone to do it" doesn't rank high on big G's list of reasons to end the world.

But you know what? Let's say it's true. God is totally fine with everything else I just mentioned, but he's going to put his foot down on the two dudes in a monogamous relationship. That's where he draws the line. If that's true? **** Him. I will not bow down to a monster.

If there is such a thing as a male dominator god - especially any of those vomited up in the middle east? Neither will I. But his adherents are the damn problem, always have been, all flavors. Once humanity bought into the notion of the creator in human form, we were doomed to misery, we made our own hell here in this life.
 
Re: Oregon Becomes First State to Issue Non-Binary Gender Driver's License

God has stood by through countless genocides, wars, murders, rapes, earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, and plagues. Literally billions of people killed over the centuries. I think "two men want to settle down and live a happy life together and be left alone to do it" doesn't rank high on big G's list of reasons to end the world.

But you know what? Let's say it's true. God is totally fine with everything else I just mentioned, but he's going to put his foot down on the two dudes in a monogamous relationship. That's where he draws the line. If that's true? **** Him. I will not bow down to a monster.

"Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.But Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be exposed." 2 Peter 3:9,10
 
Re: Oregon Becomes First State to Issue Non-Binary Gender Driver's License

ID's should just say what you are. Tolerance is well and good but legally speaking the government shouldn't be this indulgent.
 
Re: Oregon Becomes First State to Issue Non-Binary Gender Driver's License

"Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.But Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be exposed." 2 Peter 3:9,10

When you do not exist one can be patient forever and ever amen.
 
Re: Oregon Becomes First State to Issue Non-Binary Gender Driver's License

"Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.But Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be exposed." 2 Peter 3:9,10

Don't hide behind scripture. You were the one presuming to tell us what big G's response was going to be. (and doesn't the good book explicitly warn you against that?) This is your notion, your opinion, so use your own words. Think your own thoughts. Observe the world yourself. If the being in your book does, in fact, exist, he hasn't responded with any doomsday yet. While I hate to go all Godwin's Law, if G-man didn't step in to stop Hitler and Stalin, I just can't expect he's going to destroy anyone over Adam and Steve.
 
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Re: Oregon Becomes First State to Issue Non-Binary Gender Driver's License

Don't hide behind scripture. You were the one presuming to tell us what big G's response was going to be. (and doesn't the good book explicitly warn you against that?) This is your notion, your opinion, so use your own words. Think your own thoughts. Observe the world yourself. If the being in your book does, in fact, exist, he hasn't responded with any doomsday yet. While I hate to go all Godwin's Law, if G-man didn't step in to stop Hitler and Stalin, I just can't expect he's going to destroy anyone over Adam and Steve.

Nope...when confronted with questions, Jesus often responded with "It is written" and quoted scriptures from the Hebrew writings...if it was good enough for him, it's certainly good enough for me...

And that is because Satan is the ruler of this world...the Good Book says it...
 
Re: Oregon Becomes First State to Issue Non-Binary Gender Driver's License

An interesting discussion between Dr. Jordan Peterson and a transsexual.

I for the record, pretty much share the outlook of the transsexual woman in the video.

I also think Dr. Jordan Peterson makes some valid points too. That one can keep pushing boundaries to absurdity and then increasing numbers of people will actually shift more and more to oppose the LGBTQ or the newer LGBTQ++.

But I think being liberal, militantly and rigidly so anyways, forces you to always push boundaries more and more nonsensical and absurd. Because once conservatives given in to your demands, accept your constructs, then who are you if you are liberal? You are forced into an identity crisis. Because your whole being is only conceptualized in being at war with conservatives on some thing. Your identity is based on revolt from the norms of society.

So, I'm saying, unlike Dr. Peterson and the transsexual woman in the video, I don't think the process can be stopped (perhaps briefly halted, that's it). Not without the injection of violent civil war. That could come by a faction of conservatives or it could come by Muslims influenced by the dawa of the Muslim Brotherhood. Either way, I foresee violent civil war as the only antidote for the USA.



(The audio of the video clears up at about the 8:40 mark of the video.)

I love the framing of referring to the trans person as reasonable because obviously all the ones who disagree with him are unreasonable
 
Re: Oregon Becomes First State to Issue Non-Binary Gender Driver's License

Nope...when confronted with questions, Jesus often responded with "It is written" and quoted scriptures from the Hebrew writings...if it was good enough for him, it's certainly good enough for me...

And that is because Satan is the ruler of this world...the Good Book says it...

A convenient escape from your own sin, yes? The arrogance to put God's name behind your idea. To presume to think you could even understand him, let alone predict he might destroy us over something you decree on his behalf to be the last straw.
 
Re: Oregon Becomes First State to Issue Non-Binary Gender Driver's License

A convenient escape from your own sin, yes? The arrogance to put God's name behind your idea. To presume to think you could even understand him, let alone predict he might destroy us over something you decree on his behalf to be the last straw.

Why else would he give us the Bible, if we're not meant to understand it? Nope, not arrogance at all but it does take humility to be willing to accept His guidance...arrogance is choosing to go your own way, with no consideration for your Creator...
 
Re: Oregon Becomes First State to Issue Non-Binary Gender Driver's License

Why else would he give us the Bible, if we're not meant to understand it? Nope, not arrogance at all but it does take humility to be willing to accept His guidance...arrogance is choosing to go your own way, with no consideration for your Creator...

But the books never said God was going to come back and smite us because someone put a non-binary gender on a driver's license, nor to punish us for allowing gay marriage, etc. You, you said that was possible. You presented that as something the big guy might do. Presuming to know his thinking. You can't say this comes from the bible, because the bible doesn't say any of this will happen. You are a mortal putting god's name behind your idea.

You're wrong about my choice. I have considered your belief on our creator, and already expressed them. If those books are accurate, I would choose not to follow such a being. I base that on the choices made by that hypothetical being. I have given your god consideration, and elected to walk away.

To quote Stephen Fry: (to God in a hypothetical meeting) "Bone cancer in children. What's that about? How dare you?"

There are no circumstances in which I will find it acceptable to knowingly inflict babies with deadly illnesses. If God presumes to judge me on His terms, I will judge him on mine.
 
Re: Oregon Becomes First State to Issue Non-Binary Gender Driver's License

But the books never said God was going to come back and smite us because someone put a non-binary gender on a driver's license, nor to punish us for allowing gay marriage, etc. You, you said that was possible. You presented that as something the big guy might do. Presuming to know his thinking. You can't say this comes from the bible, because the bible doesn't say any of this will happen. You are a mortal putting god's name behind your idea.

You're wrong about my choice. I have considered your belief on our creator, and already expressed them. If those books are accurate, I would choose not to follow such a being. I base that on the choices made by that hypothetical being. I have given your god consideration, and elected to walk away.

To quote Stephen Fry: (to God in a hypothetical meeting) "Bone cancer in children. What's that about? How dare you?"

There are no circumstances in which I will find it acceptable to knowingly inflict babies with deadly illnesses. If God presumes to judge me on His terms, I will judge him on mine.

That's your choice...as it is His to destroy those who disobey...and yes, He does say that...

"The one who exercises faith in the Son has everlasting life; the one who disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him." John 3:36
 
Re: Oregon Becomes First State to Issue Non-Binary Gender Driver's License

That's your choice...as it is His to destroy those who disobey...and yes, He does say that...

"The one who exercises faith in the Son has everlasting life; the one who disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him." John 3:36

He never said anything about destroying us over gay marriage, or transgender issues. You said that. Are you going to ever own up to that statement, or are none of your thoughts your own?
 
Re: Oregon Becomes First State to Issue Non-Binary Gender Driver's License

He never said anything about destroying us over gay marriage, or transgender issues. You said that. Are you going to ever own up to that statement, or are none of your thoughts your own?

Anyone who strays from God's original purpose when he created man and woman will have to answer to Him...Sodom and Gomorrah made that evident...
 
Re: Oregon Becomes First State to Issue Non-Binary Gender Driver's License

Anyone who strays from God's original purpose when he created man and woman will have to answer to Him...Sodom and Gomorrah made that evident...

I have my answer, then. Do you have any actual thoughts on putting "unspecified" on a driver's license in the place of gender?
 
Re: Oregon Becomes First State to Issue Non-Binary Gender Driver's License

I have my answer, then. Do you have any actual thoughts on putting "unspecified" on a driver's license in the place of gender?

A person can deny the truth until the cows come home but the truth is still the truth...
 
Re: Oregon Becomes First State to Issue Non-Binary Gender Driver's License

Ummm you left out the most important scenario...until God's patience runs out...and no, not everyone caves...

@ Gren bold: That's why I mentioned the portion placed in blue highlight, Elvira.

The Muslim portion I got many, many, many years ago from a Sufi Muslim who told me that partly why Islam conquered Spain centuries ago was because the Christian West became incapable of addressing the social problems of the time. He suggested that if the Christian West continues to fail inside America that Islam will step up and become the force to provide the resolution. I combined that with the info we now have on the Muslim Brotherhood activity in the USA etc.

Of course, it could come from both factions of conservative Christianity and Islam, and those forces crashing with left-wing rebel forces. Either way, dialogue and reason are no longer possible in the USA and futile efforts at that.

So, I'm saying, unlike Dr. Peterson and the transsexual woman in the video, I don't think the process can be stopped (perhaps briefly halted, that's it). Not without the injection of violent civil war. That could come by a faction of conservatives or it could come by Muslims influenced by the dawa of the Muslim Brotherhood. Either way, I foresee violent civil war as the only antidote for the USA.
 
Re: Oregon Becomes First State to Issue Non-Binary Gender Driver's License

Addendum to post #23.


Remember, Christians could not kill Dracula, Islam had to kill Dracula. (If one wanted to make the concept of increased absurdity into an archetype of Count Dracula.)

 
Re: Oregon Becomes First State to Issue Non-Binary Gender Driver's License

No doubt. It always seems like they are on the move for no other reason than to be on the move. Where they are going and where they have been doesn't seem to be all that important to them, but their current beliefs that they just came up with five minutes ago is very important.

I agree. To a point.

I just want to make sure I'm understood in that I'm saying being equally militant and rigidly conservative comes with equal problems. I mean by that when you come to only understand yourself, understand your humanity and reason for being only to be in opposition to liberals or some idea they propose.

I mean... it could be a fair and good idea liberals propose and a change should be pursued. Just like it might be in some instance the conservatives are right that a particular tradition or norm ought be preserved.

I don't care about the "left" or "right" identifications so much as whether an idea or proposal seems fair, just, and reasonable.
 
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