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Dating, Is Full Disclosure Required?

calamity said:
Correct, the thread is about disclosure in general. I did not take into account that some people are obsessed with that one issue. Had I thought about it, I would have clearly stated in the OP that, since this one issue has already been repeatedly hashed over in here, we should primarily explore the other disclosure issues. I thought people would get that without me having to spell it out. My bad.
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Not everyone does this, but there are people that I believe do this purposely just to be dicks. A handful seem to do it often.
 
radcen said:
Being married I obviously don't date anymore, but when I did between marriages one question I would ask early on was, "Have you ever cheated on someone?"

That was important to me. Only got one affirmative answer, btw.
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Wow. That would be a good one to throw out and just read their reaction. Only the best liars would be able to handle that one without giving themselves away.
 
The other person has a right to know, eventually. I'd say some sort of trust should be established first, getting to know one another, forming a friendship. If the dating thing doesn't work out, perhaps the two can remain friends. I think that holds true whether the two are straight, gay or whatever.
 
Lovebug said:
The other person has a right to know, eventually. I'd say some sort of trust should be established first, getting to know one another, forming a friendship. If the dating thing doesn't work out, perhaps the two can remain friends. I think that holds true whether the two are straight, gay or whatever.
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Why would a straight man be interested in dating what is factually a man? Why even wait to tell him when it is quite apparent that the chances he will not be interested is very high?
 
Henrin said:
Why would a straight man be interested in dating what is factually a man? Why even wait to tell him when it is quite apparent that the chances he will not be interested is very high?
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The idea is that "the straight man/woman" doesn't know.
 
Lovebug said:
The idea is that "the straight man/woman" doesn't know.
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I'm fully aware of that. Why do you think I support people being informed upfront by the transgender individual? Don't you think it is wrong to fail to inform someone that you're not the sex you are presenting yourself as for a few dates when you know full well they are likely not aware of it? How is it morally right to lead someone along to the point where they start to have feeling you? Please, share with me how that behavior is moral. If a transgender did that to me I would likely kill them. Just sayin'.
 
Henrin said:
I'm fully aware of that. Why do you think I support people being informed upfront by the transgender individual? Don't you think it is wrong to fail to inform someone that you're not the sex you are presenting yourself as for a few dates when you know full well they are likely not aware of it? How is it morally right to lead someone along to the point where they start to have feeling you? Please, share with me how that behavior is moral. If a transgender did that to me I would likely kill them. Just sayin'.
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You would kill them for being themselves and not trusting what amounts to a perfect stranger? Being transgender isn't something that one announces at first hello.
 
Lovebug said:
You would kill them for being themselves and not trusting what amounts to a perfect stranger? Being transgender isn't something that one announces at first hello.
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Being themselves? Are you kidding? They are already presenting themselves as something they are not and on a date with me. If they don't even have the common decency to sent the record straight before things even start and instead wait around until after I get feelings for them then you can bank on me hurting them very badly for it. Oh and yeah, it is something you announce when you first say hello and the fact that people don't think it is a serious problem. If you look like a woman and I approach you I'm not approaching you with the assumption you're really a dude. It is your DUTY inform me that I'm factually wrong, period.
 
Henrin said:
Being themselves? Are you kidding? They are already presenting themselves as something they are not and on a date with me. If they don't even have the common decency to sent the record straight before things even start and instead wait around until after I get feelings for them then you can bank on me hurting them very badly for it. Oh and yeah, it is something you announce when you first say hello and the fact that people don't think it is a serious problem. If you look like a woman and I approach you I'm not approaching you with the assumption you're really a dude. It is your DUTY inform me that I'm factually wrong, period.
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Does anyone reveal all the skeletons in their closet on the first date?
 
Lovebug said:
Does anyone reveal all the skeletons in their closet on the first date?
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I'm not asking for anything more than for them to tell others who they are. Demanding to know if someone is a female like they are presenting themselves as is NOT demanding skeletons be revealed. If they are unable to do this very simple matter then they should turn down every man or woman that approaches them with romantic interest in mind.
 
I do not think it needs to be disclosed on the first date.

But I think before any sexual activity would be a wise time to disclose. Too many individuals with fragile egos and trigger fingers to not do otherwise,
 
Lovebug said:
Does anyone reveal all the skeletons in their closet on the first date?
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No, but a HUGE one that could be an immediate deal breaker should be revealed. Neither party wants to develop an emotional attachment and then have something revealed that pulls them apart. What's the point in that?
 
Henrin said:
I'm fully aware of that. Why do you think I support people being informed upfront by the transgender individual? Don't you think it is wrong to fail to inform someone that you're not the sex you are presenting yourself as for a few dates when you know full well they are likely not aware of it? How is it morally right to lead someone along to the point where they start to have feeling you? Please, share with me how that behavior is moral. If a transgender did that to me I would likely kill them. Just sayin'.
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1) If you killed them, you would go to jail... and would deserve to completely and fully.
2) Just because YOU want to know does not mean that everyone wants or needs to know, immediately. So, here's what you should do, Henrin. From now on, whenever YOU go on a date, the first thing you should ask the woman is if she is a transsexual. If she is, then end the date and feel proud of yourself that dodged whatever bullet you are fearful of dodging.
3) Not everyone cares. Lots of people do, but not everyone. Again, to be safe, whenever you date someone, Henrin, ask them upfront.
 
Henrin said:
Being themselves? Are you kidding? They are already presenting themselves as something they are not and on a date with me. If they don't even have the common decency to sent the record straight before things even start and instead wait around until after I get feelings for them then you can bank on me hurting them very badly for it. Oh and yeah, it is something you announce when you first say hello and the fact that people don't think it is a serious problem. If you look like a woman and I approach you I'm not approaching you with the assumption you're really a dude. It is your DUTY inform me that I'm factually wrong, period.
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No, it is NOT one's duty to inform you that you are factually wrong. In our world, currently, admitting that one is transsexual can be dangerous. Look at you, Henrin. You have said, FOR YEARS, that you would hurt or kill someone if you found out they were transsexual. Transsexuals are often discriminated against and treated badly or differently because of their situation. It is NOT their duty to inform you upon first meeting you. It IS something that they should do IF something might develop. It is entirely possible that when first meeting you, the individual automatically thinks, "hmmm... I have no intention of seeing THIS guy, again". No reason to tell you at that point and risk some sort of harm.

My suggestion would be that, from now on, whenever you meet ANYONE for the first time, the first thing you should do is say, "hi, my name is Henrin. Are you transsexual?" Problem solved.
 
MaggieD said:
Sex change right up front, imo. Someone who's "had" an STD? No reason to tell anyone unless it's herpes. As we all know, herpes is forever. Personal details like a suicide attempt? Much later in a relationship... move-in or engaged or marriage discussions. but I think it should be shared. A threesome? Nah. Experimentation with homosexuality? Nah.

I guess I pretty much agree with you. BUT if a question is asked, for God's sake, don't lie. Been married before? How many times? Any kids? Every question either deserves an honest answer or deserves "Yeah, that's a little too personal for me."

My questions were always... Been married? How many times? When were you divorced? How many kids? How old? What do you do for a living? How long ya' been doing that? Where do you live? What kind of car do you drive?

I'll see if I can find the questionnaire I gave them and post it up.






Kidding!!!
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LOL maggs that is great.
a full on questionnaire.
 
Lovebug said:
The other person has a right to know, eventually. I'd say some sort of trust should be established first, getting to know one another, forming a friendship. If the dating thing doesn't work out, perhaps the two can remain friends. I think that holds true whether the two are straight, gay or whatever.
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that is the opposite of building trust.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
No, it is NOT one's duty to inform you that you are factually wrong. In our world, currently, admitting that one is transsexual can be dangerous. Look at you, Henrin. You have said, FOR YEARS, that you would hurt or kill someone if you found out they were transsexual. Transsexuals are often discriminated against and treated badly or differently because of their situation. It is NOT their duty to inform you upon first meeting you. It IS something that they should do IF something might develop. It is entirely possible that when first meeting you, the individual automatically thinks, "hmmm... I have no intention of seeing THIS guy, again". No reason to tell you at that point and risk some sort of harm.

My suggestion would be that, from now on, whenever you meet ANYONE for the first time, the first thing you should do is say, "hi, my name is Henrin. Are you transsexual?" Problem solved.
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if you look at statistics most are put into dangerous situations because they are not upfront and honest.
they wait until something happens or has happened to reveal it.

the other person reacts out of anger at being deceived and taken advantage of.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
No, it is NOT one's duty to inform you that you are factually wrong. In our world, currently, admitting that one is transsexual can be dangerous. Look at you, Henrin. You have said, FOR YEARS, that you would hurt or kill someone if you found out they were transsexual. Transsexuals are often discriminated against and treated badly or differently because of their situation. It is NOT their duty to inform you upon first meeting you. It IS something that they should do IF something might develop. It is entirely possible that when first meeting you, the individual automatically thinks, "hmmm... I have no intention of seeing THIS guy, again". No reason to tell you at that point and risk some sort of harm.

My suggestion would be that, from now on, whenever you meet ANYONE for the first time, the first thing you should do is say, "hi, my name is Henrin. Are you transsexual?" Problem solved.
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IMO, the only obligation one has when meeting someone the first time is to be polite. If the meet grows into a conversation which goes beyond fifteen minutes or so, then sharing a few details might be in order, depending on the direction of the engagement. But, what gets shared on that first meeting is certainly up to the person sharing it. There is no obligation, in my mind, to tell a complete stranger much of anything.
 
ludin said:
that is the opposite of building trust.
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Let's say a lipstick lesbian on a business trip is sitting at a bar. Joe Schmoe sends her a drink. Should she refuse it and alert the whole bar that she is a lesbian?

Let's say she accepts it and allows Joe to engage her in conversation? Is she obligated to tell Joe he is wasting his time because she is a lesbian? Maybe she just wants to talk because...you know, she's bored out of her skull. :shrug:
 
calamity said:
Let's say a lipstick lesbian on a business trip is sitting at a bar. Joe Schmoe sends her a drink. Should she refuse it and alert the whole bar that she is a lesbian?
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She can just refuse the drink. If the man's drink is refused he will likely get the clue she is not interested.

Let's say she accepts it and allows Joe to engage her in conversation? Is she obligated to tell Joe he is wasting his time because she is a lesbian? Maybe she just wants to talk because...you know, she's bored out of her skull. :shrug:
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It's the moral thing to do. If she knows what he is interested in and she knows there is no chance of that happening the moral thing to do is to tell him.
 
calamity said:
Let's say a lipstick lesbian on a business trip is sitting at a bar. Joe Schmoe sends her a drink. Should she refuse it and alert the whole bar that she is a lesbian?

Let's say she accepts it and allows Joe to engage her in conversation? Is she obligated to tell Joe he is wasting his time because she is a lesbian? Maybe she just wants to talk because...you know, she's bored out of her skull. :shrug:
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If she thinks that he is trying to pick her up why wouldn't she tell him? why lead him on unless she thinks she is going to get free drinks out of it.
you can talk to people without it being sexual or implying that other things are going to happen.
 
maquiscat said:
That doesn't answer the question, though. Are you limiting your self to romantic relationships? Additionally, are all things required to be disclosed immediately? The question is more geared to when it the right time and what things are required to be disclosed? For example, is it dishonest if you don't disclose your high school and/or college GPA? Is that something that needs to be disclosed? If so, when is it appropriate?
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It should be disclosed before asking someone out, IMO. I have no problems with trans people, but it's a "need to know" before deciding whether to date someone or not.
 
ludin said:
If she thinks that he is trying to pick her up why wouldn't she tell him? why lead him on unless she thinks she is going to get free drinks out of it.
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Why should she presume that? Maybe he should just tell her that he is trying to pick her up and that is why he bought her a drink. :roll:

you can talk to people without it being sexual or implying that other things are going to happen.
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And, if someone offers you free drinks, drink free. I owe you nothing.
 
ludin said:
if you look at statistics most are put into dangerous situations because they are not upfront and honest.
they wait until something happens or has happened to reveal it.

the other person reacts out of anger at being deceived and taken advantage of.
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Firstly, most are in dangerous situations because they are transsexual and there are people who seem to want to assault transsexuals when they find out. Secondly, unless a transsexual is getting involved in a serious relationship, there is absolutely NO reason for them to reveal that they are trans. And lastly, the other person's anger is irrelevant. They have no right to be assaultive... unless you believe that if a woman flirts with a man but then refuses to have sex with him, it's OK for him to assault and/or rape her, because you're saying the same thing.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Firstly, most are in dangerous situations because they are transsexual and there are people who seem to want to assault transsexuals when they find out. Secondly, unless a transsexual is getting involved in a serious relationship, there is absolutely NO reason for them to reveal that they are trans. And lastly, the other person's anger is irrelevant. They have no right to be assaultive... unless you believe that if a woman flirts with a man but then refuses to have sex with him, it's OK for him to assault and/or rape her, because you're saying the same thing.
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I think that the threats and actual carrying out of this kind of 'payback' violence are fueled by fragile ego and insecurity; if your response to making an honest error of judgement is threats or violence then you have deep problems. If you suspect that someone is trans but, go along with it and then have post relationship guilt issues and your response to that is threats and violence then you have deep problems.

For many trans people it is very important, if not imperative, for them to be identified as the gender that they present as so the temptation to be flattered by that kind of attention can be overwhelming. It is very difficult to burst that bubble once it has got some momentum but, I do think that trans people should be as 'defensive' as they can be and try hard not to get themselves into situations like this to start with. Actually, I don't know how satisfying a longer term relationship can be if you are not open and honest about this, if the person reacts badly to it then they are probably not someone you should be with in the first place.
 
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