Can a Three Year Old "Know" They Are Transgender?

Harshaw · May 21, 2017

spud_meister said:
Be more specific. What don't they understand that would mean gender dismorphia can't be present?

Because they don't understand anything about "gender" other than the physical differences. That's as "specific" as they understand.

Fletch · May 21, 2017

spud_meister said:
Children that are 3 generally have developed a concept of gender and gender roles. It's the age when exploration of gender happens, from dress up and choosing gendered toys, to kids comparing physical differences with each other. Kids of 3 know that they're a boy and a girl, and often will claim to have a boy/girlfriend of the opposite gender. For a kid with Gender Dysphoria, 3 is minimum age you'd expect signs of it to show.

Where do you get these 'facts' doctor?

_Sal · May 21, 2017

spud_meister said:
Children that are 3 generally have developed a concept of gender and gender roles. It's the age when exploration of gender happens, from dress up and choosing gendered toys, to kids comparing physical differences with each other. Kids of 3 know that they're a boy and a girl, and often will claim to have a boy/girlfriend of the opposite gender. For a kid with Gender Dysphoria, 3 is minimum age you'd expect signs of it to show.

gender roles and dress are a societal construct

gender is actually on a continuum as is sexual preference...a three year old does not have the mental acuity to understand a societal construct

so no a three year old can not possibly know they are transgender

Henrin · May 21, 2017

_Sal said:
gender roles and dress are a societal construct

Not entirely true on the first account. Gender roles are both socially created and biologically motivated. The human race can create gender roles if they so desire, but they are also biologically motivated to have certain ones.

----

As for the question, I doubt they can know if they are transgender and probably have about the same understanding of their gender identity as they do their sexuality.

maquiscat · May 21, 2017

_Sal said:
gender roles and dress are a societal construct

gender is actually on a continuum as is sexual preference...a three year old does not have the mental acuity to understand a societal construct

so no a three year old can not possibly know they are transgender

While the three year old might not comprehend about being transgender, they could well know that there is a difference between males and females and that they identify not as the one they are called, but the other one. This could even transcend the constructed roles as well. A boy might still feel he is a boy, but play with dolls, and want to be a homemaker (or at least as they perceive such.

I agree that the roles a given gender is expected to fulfill are artificial social constructs and even change over time. And I agree that kids might not in most cases fully comprehend these roles and why they are associated with a given gender. But most do have a good concept on how they feel their bodies should be.

maquiscat · May 21, 2017

Henrin said:
Not entirely true on the first account. Gender roles are both socially created and biologically motivated. The human race can create gender roles if they so desire, but they are also biologically motivated to have certain ones.

----

As for the question, I doubt they can know if they are transgender and probably have about the same understanding of their gender identity as they do their sexuality.

Could you give an example of a biologically motivated gender role?

spud_meister · May 21, 2017

Fletch said:
Where do you get these 'facts' doctor?

I worked with kids of that age for a few years.

spud_meister · May 21, 2017

Harshaw said:
Because they don't understand anything about "gender" other than the physical differences. That's as "specific" as they understand.

Except they also understand societal roles and expectations. They acquire this understanding through observation of adults and other people in their lives.

spud_meister · May 21, 2017

_Sal said:
gender roles and dress are a societal construct

gender is actually on a continuum as is sexual preference...a three year old does not have the mental acuity to understand a societal construct

so no a three year old can not possibly know they are transgender

You genuinely think a 3 year old can't understand a societal construct, like rules or sharing? Kids have amazing observational powers, they observe through the people around them, and the media they're exposed to, that men and women are meant to have different attitudes, expectations and roles based on their gender.

Harshaw · May 21, 2017

spud_meister said:
Except they also understand societal roles and expectations. They acquire this understanding through observation of adults and other people in their lives.

So? They also understand the difference between the roles of a family car and a dump truck. Their concept of personal "gender" is no deeper than that.

Besides, "societal roles" are not internalized conceptions of "gender" even in adults. Someone isn't "transgender" simply because they feel their calling in "society" is that of a role "traditionally" held by the opposite sex. A guy who wants to be a nurse (for an example of an actually and traditionally female-dominated field) doesn't also think he's a woman inside. A guy who wants to be a stay-at-home dad -- a "caretaker," as you put it, calling it a feminine role -- doesn't think he's a woman inside.

_Sal · May 21, 2017

maquiscat said:
While the three year old might not comprehend about being transgender, they could well know that there is a difference between males and females and that they identify not as the one they are called, but the other one. This could even transcend the constructed roles as well. A boy might still feel he is a boy, but play with dolls, and want to be a homemaker (or at least as they perceive such.

I agree that the roles a given gender is expected to fulfill are artificial social constructs and even change over time. And I agree that kids might not in most cases fully comprehend these roles and why they are associated with a given gender. But most do have a good concept on how they feel their bodies should be.

absolutely

yes...they would have body awareness and they would already for sure be on a specific place on the continuum

_Sal · May 21, 2017

spud_meister said:
You genuinely think a 3 year old can't understand a societal construct, like rules or sharing?

don't move the goal posts

of course such simple "rules" such as sharing are beginning to be understood, the reason for this is because we are pack animals and it is a survival mechanism

Kids have amazing observational powers, they observe through the people around them, and the media they're exposed to,

they do have amazing powers of observation, they are little sponges so it is very important that those around them be unbiased and open to the child

that men and women are meant to have different attitudes, expectations and roles based on their gender.

no.........that is a societal construct and it changes along with societies expectations

they are THREE....read the psychology and perceptial understanding of an average three year old

RepublicanProud · May 22, 2017

maquiscat said:
Transgenderism and gender dysphoria and two separate, albeit related things. Gender Disphoria can be corrected/cured/fixed/what have you. Transgenderism is something that never goes away. The disphoria is the stress and anxiety of the disconnect between what the self views as its gender and the body's physical sex. The cure for the disphoria can be as simple as presenting as the self's gender, or it may need to go all the way through SRS, and any point along the path. Regardless, the disphoria is then gone and the individual no longer has that anxiety due to the disconnect. That doesn't mean that they won't have other stresses and anxieties due to how people treat them, or how they perceive people will treat them, but that is from a different source, not the disphoria itself.

Gender Dysphoria: the condition of feeling one's emotional and psychological identity as male or female to be opposite to one's biological sex.

Transgender: denoting or relating to a person whose sense of personal identity and gender does not correspond with their birth sex.

These two things in summation are the exact same thing regardless of emotional treatment or "cures"

radcen · May 22, 2017

Dragonfly said:
A child's journey to "truegender"

Is it possible for a three year old child to know and/or understand they are transgender?

Without some outside influences (or a lot of), does the average 3 year old know their own gender identity well enough to know their inner person is different than their outer person?

Thoughts?

I would say no, they cannot know. They can be, but not know. That level of self-awareness hasn't developed to that point yet.

maquiscat · May 22, 2017

RepublicanProud said:
Gender Dysphoria: the condition of feeling one's emotional and psychological identity as male or female to be opposite to one's biological sex.

Transgender: denoting or relating to a person whose sense of personal identity and gender does not correspond with their birth sex.

These two things in summation are the exact same thing regardless of emotional treatment or "cures"

Not quite.

Gender dysphoria or gender identity disorder (GID) is the dysphoria (distress) a person experiences as a result of the sex and gender they were assigned at birth. In these cases, the assigned sex and gender do not match the person's gender identity, and the person is transgender.

bold added.

Once a person transitions, however far is necessary, and the distress is gone, then they no longer have the dysphoria. They are still transgender.

ibelsd · May 22, 2017

Let's walk this backwards. Does society have a clear definition of what it means to be transgender? Do adults know the meaning of being transgender? Is transgender a biological condition or an environmental behavior? We don't even have a legal definition of what being transgender means.

So, the idea that a three year old child can be transgender, can know he/she is transgender, is ludicrous on its face. On the plus side... nope. I can't even see a plus side here. A child likely to live a life of depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideations. Well done mom and dad!

chromium · May 22, 2017

Re: Can a Three Year Old "Know" They Are Transgender?

They can make an educated guess and turn out to be right, but too many kids up to age 12 or older believe they're trans and then turn out not to be. Before puberty in particular, signals can be misinterpreted. As just one example, i thought i might be trans but ended up being gay and not trans

maquiscat · May 23, 2017