Continuing discussion on Transgender and mental illness from poll

Renae · May 4, 2017

Angel said:
If by "personal experience" you mean Am I a transgender, no, I'm not. If you mean Do I know any transgenders, yes, I do. But personal acquaintance has nothing to do with the biological fact. This gender/sex distinction is what's called a distinction without a difference, to put it politely. And as I said in my first post above, the APA has for political reasons bought into the cultural lie. So yes, psychotherapy helps transitioning, but it shouldn't. The APA in its current iteration is aiding and abetting a political falsehood.

Angel and I have been going back and forth, feel free to see https://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/283762-being-transgender-mental-disorder-10.html Post 372

My last in that thread:
What is the better path? You say therapy, but that hasn't borne out as productive. I AM trans, I lived a very normal male life. I was miserable. Therapy didn't help, therapy to transition, has. HRT has done wonders for me. I cant wait for grs. Trying your path was nearly suicide.

Angel, I had another side point to ask you, were you aware there are actual, physiological difference between men and women's brain structures?

rocket88 · May 4, 2017

Renae said:
Angel and I have been going back and forth, feel free to see https://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/283762-being-transgender-mental-disorder-10.html Post 372

My last in that thread:
What is the better path? You say therapy, but that hasn't borne out as productive. I AM trans, I lived a very normal male life. I was miserable. Therapy didn't help, therapy to transition, has. HRT has done wonders for me. I cant wait for grs. Trying your path was nearly suicide.

Angel, I had another side point to ask you, were you aware there are actual, physiological difference between men and women's brain structures?

The only place where politics should come into a person's sexual identity is the idea that a person is free to make their own decisions. Or is that too much to ask?

phattonez · May 4, 2017

Renae said:
Angel and I have been going back and forth, feel free to see https://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/283762-being-transgender-mental-disorder-10.html Post 372

My last in that thread:
What is the better path? You say therapy, but that hasn't borne out as productive. I AM trans, I lived a very normal male life. I was miserable. Therapy didn't help, therapy to transition, has. HRT has done wonders for me. I cant wait for grs. Trying your path was nearly suicide.

Angel, I had another side point to ask you, were you aware there are actual, physiological difference between men and women's brain structures?

Gender reassignment surgery has a horrible track record, as I hope that you know. Regret is close to 20%, with massive suicide and mental illness rates.

Transgender Regret Is Real Even If The Media Says Otherwise

Skeptic Bob · May 4, 2017

When that thread started I was waiting for you to participate before asking anything. After a few pages when it didn't look like you were going to participate I stopped following it. I really have no interest in a bunch of cis people and non-psychiatrists discussing the subject.

But now that you are in the conversation I will share with you what my uninformed opinion is and welcome any critique of it by you.

I feel that gender dysphoria is a mental disorder and transitioning is one appropriate treatment to fix, or treat, the mind/body disconnect. I feel many of my fellow pro-transrights folks dislike that description because mental disorders are stigmatized, which they shouldn't be.

Thanks for the input, Renae. You are the only trans person I have ever communicated with...that I know of.

Renae · May 4, 2017

phattonez said:
Gender reassignment surgery has a horrible track record, as I hope that you know. Regret is close to 20%, with massive suicide and mental illness rates.

Transgender Regret Is Real Even If The Media Says Otherwise

I did my research on that person,

The truth about Heyer is this. He was never transgender. He never suffered from Gender Dysphoria. He suffered from Dissociative Identity Disorder and early childhood trauma due to abuse by his uncle and grandmother. He found a way to circumvent the standards of care. All he has done is proven the need for such standards.

Heyer claims he was tricked into thinking he was transgender. Through his own story it seems it was the other way around. It seems he went to great lengths to trick others into thinking he was transgender. There is no association with early childhood trauma and being transgender. There is real science on transgender causes. I would recommend you check out The Origins of the Transgender Condition and The Origins of Transgender: Hormones and Gender Identity if you want the actual facts presented by real scientists.

Transgender Regret: Fact or Fiction? | Transgender Universe

He's a bitter man who made mistakes and is rabidly anti-trans. While his is a tale of caution, I say it strengthens the point that a proper, honest treatment path is the best course.

phattonez · May 4, 2017

Renae said:
I did my research on that person,

Transgender Regret: Fact or Fiction? | Transgender Universe

He's a bitter man who made mistakes and is rabidly anti-trans. While his is a tale of caution, I say it strengthens the point that a proper, honest treatment path is the best course.

I cited the studies, not the person. What's your response to the studies?

Renae · May 4, 2017

Skeptic Bob said:
When that thread started I was waiting for you to participate before asking anything. After a few pages when it didn't look like you were going to participate I stopped following it. I really have no interest in a bunch of cis people and non-psychiatrists discussing the subject.

But now that you are in the conversation I will share with you what my uninformed opinion is and welcome any critique of it by you.

I feel that gender dysphoria is a mental disorder and transitioning is one appropriate treatment to fix, or treat, the mind/body disconnect. I feel many of my fellow pro-transrights folks dislike that description because mental disorders are stigmatized, which they shouldn't be.

Thanks for the input, Renae. You are the only trans person I have ever communicated with...that I know of.

If you want to look at it as a mental disorder, that's a misnomer but I get why one could draw that conclusion. I see it as a birth defect, science is showing that during gestation is the most likely time for hormonal based brain changes to occur. The thing is, how do you treat the issue, regardless of how you want to label it?

I was a miserable asshole prior to accepting I'm trans, and then actively transitioning. I could go into long details about the anguish I was in internally. I mean this sincerely, all of that is gone or going. (there is some body image discongruity issues I deal with but since I'm headed to fixing that too... I can cope.)

Renae · May 4, 2017

phattonez said:
I cited the studies, not the person. What's your response to the studies?

Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.

Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery: Cohort Study in Sweden

It's a commitment to long term therapy and self awareness. That's what that study is showing.

“Trans people have brains that are different from males and females, a unique kind of brain,” Guillamon says. “It is simplistic to say that a female-to-male transgender person is a female trapped in a male body. It's not because they have a male brain but a transsexual brain.” Of course, behavior and experience shape brain anatomy, so it is impossible to say if these subtle differences are inborn.
Other investigators have looked at sex differences through brain functioning. In a study published in 2014, psychologist Sarah M. Burke of VU University Medical Center in Amsterdam and biologist Julie Bakker of the Netherlands Institute for Neuroscience used functional MRI to examine how 39 prepubertal and 41 adolescent boys and girls with gender dysphoria responded to androstadienone, an odorous steroid with pheromonelike properties that is known to cause a different response in the hypothalamus of men versus women. They found that the adolescent boys and girls with gender dysphoria responded much like peers of their experienced gender. The results were less clear with the prepubertal children.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/

jdog21 · May 4, 2017

Renae said:
Angel and I have been going back and forth, feel free to see https://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/283762-being-transgender-mental-disorder-10.html Post 372

My last in that thread:
What is the better path? You say therapy, but that hasn't borne out as productive. I AM trans, I lived a very normal male life. I was miserable. Therapy didn't help, therapy to transition, has. HRT has done wonders for me. I cant wait for grs. Trying your path was nearly suicide.

Angel, I had another side point to ask you, were you aware there are actual, physiological difference between men and women's brain structures?

I think gender therapy is a good option cuz psychologically there is a problem that makes you think you should be a different gender. But in no means should the goverment require you to attend those. You have the freedom to do what you want. If getting help, helps you then great. If taking hormones and or operations is what you want then great. If staying the same and no getting help is what you want then great.

Omgitsme · May 4, 2017

phattonez said:
Gender reassignment surgery has a horrible track record, as I hope that you know. Regret is close to 20%, with massive suicide and mental illness rates.

Transgender Regret Is Real Even If The Media Says Otherwise

I tried finding the study they are talking about that says regret is close to 20% and couldnt find it. The only thing I could find is an article by the Guardian saying that research from Holland and America suggest that regret is close to 20%. Could you please post the link to the actual study? Because Im not convinced it even exists.

phattonez said:
I cited the studies, not the person. What's your response to the studies?

Not in this thread you didnt.

calamity · May 4, 2017

Omgitsme said:
I tried finding the study they are talking about that says regret is close to 20% and couldnt find it. The only thing I could find is an article by the Guardian saying that research from Holland and America suggest that regret is close to 20%. Could you please post the link to the actual study? Because Im not convinced it even exists.

Not in this thread you didnt.

It's a dead end claim. I've tried following it myself a few times and it leads nowhere.

Judging by the satisfaction rates found in articles for which there are studies that can be traced, regret is less than 10%. Maybe even much less than 10%.

CLAX1911 · May 5, 2017

Renae said:
Angel and I have been going back and forth, feel free to see https://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/283762-being-transgender-mental-disorder-10.html Post 372

My last in that thread:
What is the better path? You say therapy, but that hasn't borne out as productive. I AM trans, I lived a very normal male life. I was miserable. Therapy didn't help, therapy to transition, has. HRT has done wonders for me. I cant wait for grs. Trying your path was nearly suicide.

Angel, I had another side point to ask you, were you aware there are actual, physiological difference between men and women's brain structures?

Well being transgender, no. But gender disphoria most certainly is a mental illness. One for which there is no cure but we do have coping mechanisms until a time comes when we can treat this mental illness I don't see a problem with administering coping mechanisms.

calamity · May 5, 2017

CLAX1911 said:
Well being transgender, no. But gender disphoria most certainly is a mental illness. One for which there is no cure but we do have coping mechanisms until a time comes when we can treat this mental illness I don't see a problem with administering coping mechanisms.

Mental illness may be a misnomer here because it implies that the problem is in the mind. The problem most certainly is not one of the mind, even if it stems from an issue within the brain. The mind may be fine; the brain OTOH is not "wired" for the person's biological sex.

It may be a subtle difference in terms, but it's drastically different physiologically. A mental disorder is when the brain fails to process information as presented by reality. The trans brain processes information just fine. It just does not agree with the physical biology of the body. It's a bit like putting the wrong spark plugs in a perfectly fine engine.

Lursa · Oct 19, 2017

calamity said:
Mental illness may be a misnomer here because it implies that the problem is in the mind. The problem most certainly is not one of the mind, even if it stems from an issue within the brain. The mind may be fine; the brain OTOH is not "wired" for the person's biological sex.

It may be a subtle difference in terms, but it's drastically different physiologically. A mental disorder is when the brain fails to process information as presented by reality. The trans brain processes information just fine. It just does not agree with the physical biology of the body. It's a bit like putting the wrong spark plugs in a perfectly fine engine.

If society didnt impose biases and hate and other negative things on transgender individuals, often from their earliest childhood, would it be a handicap? If the individuals were accepted and allowed to discover their sexual identity naturally?

I guess this is ignorance on my part because some do desire the physical changes that dont conform to their identity and that causes anguish. So that is a negative impact not forced on them by society.

Edit: sorry, old post. I clicked a link in a current post and ended up here. Nevermind!

Continuing discussion on Transgender and mental illness from poll

Renae

rocket88

Mod Conspiracy Theorist

phattonez

Catholic

Skeptic Bob

Renae

phattonez

Catholic

Renae

Renae

jdog21

Omgitsme

calamity

Privileged

CLAX1911

Supreme knower of all

calamity

Privileged

Lursa

Tenacious