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Transgendered contestant outed on Survivor

Skeptic Bob said:
At least don't reveal your secret to one of your competitors. But I think Zeke handled it wisely. He just stayed quiet and let Varner dig his own hole.
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agreed

Keep in mind too that those who wear the victim tag often become abusers at some point(More than occasionally they always were abusers), it is highly likely that the transgender person in this situation would tell their worst enemy in the hopes that they would spread it around, because in Victim Culture this is all net for the "victim".

Note: I have have not watched Survivor since maybe season 5, I am making no claims of fact in this event, only pointing out how these things tend to go.
 
Henrin said:
I think if you know they want children and the woman can't have them then it is your duty to inform. Why would you let the guy believe she can children when you know she can't? How is that not cruel?
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But remember, we were talking about before getting involved. Before showing interest, as you put it in your reply to me. Should the cute woman working at the Subway tell any men coming in that she is infertile, just in case they may be considering asking her for her number?

I think it is pretty clear that at that stage it is none of your business. Likewise, until you show interest in pursuing a relationship with a person they have no moral obligation to reveal their gender identity to you.
 
Henrin said:
I think if you know they want children and the woman can't have them then it is your duty to inform. Why would you let the guy believe she can children when you know she can't? How is that not cruel?

As for her, well, if she knows that guys expect that then it seems reasonable to say something about it being wrong.
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Actually outing someone in that fashion wouldn't be morally right it would just be you (the general you) being an asshole.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I say that any who signs up to do these shows is voluntarily giving up the right to keep who they are a secret.
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well what i think is really duplicitous of the network is it banned the guy who revealed this without even a vote, and yet it also revealed this secret to everyone watching on tv

take a stand for real or don't bother pretending you're better is what i always say
 
chromium said:
well what i think is really duplicitous of the network is it banned the guy who revealed this without even a vote, and yet it also revealed this secret to everyone watching on tv

take a stand for real or don't bother pretending you're better is what i always say
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Yeeeeesssss!

Victim Culture Promotion
 
Praxas said:
Actually outing someone in that fashion wouldn't be morally right it would just be you (the general you) being an asshole.
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How is it being an asshole? In the later example the woman knows that is what men expect on average and yet isn't saying a word about it. How is doing what she failed to do when she knew it was the right thing to do wrong?
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Yeeeeesssss!

Victim Culture Promotion
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it's simply none of your business and not relevant to the 'competition' that this individual was trans. Even the others who heard this revelation reacted that way. Tell it to them
 
chromium said:
it's simply none of your business and not relevant to the 'competition' that this individual was trans. Even the others who heard this revelation reacted that way. Tell it to them
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Places like Survivor selling Victim Culture is very much my business.

Keep in mind Survivor chose to bring this subject up so OK, let's talk about it, and let's talk about what they are selling and why.
 
Henrin said:
How is it being an asshole? In the later example the woman knows that is what men expect on average and yet isn't saying a word about it. How is doing what she failed to do when she knew it was the right thing to do wrong?
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Again what business is it of yours (again General you) to be a little tattle tale? Seriously are you (the General you) the moral police?
 
Skeptic Bob said:
But remember, we were talking about before getting involved. Before showing interest, as you put it in your reply to me. Should the cute woman working at the Subway tell any men coming in that she is infertile, just in case they may be considering asking her for her number?

I think it is pretty clear that at that stage it is none of your business. Likewise, until you show interest in pursuing a relationship with a person they have no moral obligation to reveal their gender identity to you.
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This example is weird. When it comes to someones perceptions on someones sex it affects how they interact with them in many aspects of life as they have made the conclusion that they are what they present themselves as. This is quite different than the usual irrelevant nature of someones fertility.
 
chromium said:
well what i think is really duplicitous of the network is it banned the guy who revealed this without even a vote, and yet it also revealed this secret to everyone watching on tv
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The network didn't "ban" Varner. Their YouTube channel had the normal "Day After" interview. The players were in the stage of the game where they decide who goes home that week; Varner was unanimously booted by the other players.

The show and network had Zeke's consent to show the events.
 
Praxas said:
Again what business is it of yours (again General you) to be a little tattle tale? Seriously are you (the General you) the moral police?
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Please see post #58
 
Praxas said:
Again what business is it of yours (again General you) to be a little tattle tale? Seriously are you (the General you) the moral police?
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If I'm the guys friend and I know he wants children then I think telling him he is with a woman that can't give him children is meaningful information that should be disclosed. I don't think I would be a good friend if I just ignored his wishes and how his current girlfriend can't help him reach them.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Please see post #58
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Doesn't answer my question. Selling victim culture? Puuuhlease. No you guys just want to out LGBT folks and nothing more.
 
Visbek said:
The network didn't "ban" Varner. Their YouTube channel had the normal "Day After" interview. The players were in the stage of the game where they decide who goes home that week; Varner was unanimously booted by the other players.

The show and network had Zeke's consent to show the events.
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With as highly scripted as these shows are "The contestants did it" needs to be in quotes.
 
Henrin said:
If I'm the guys friend and I know he wants children then I think telling him he is with a woman that can't give him children is meaningful information that should be disclosed. I don't think I would be a good friend if I just ignored his wishes and how his current girlfriend can't help him reach them.
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I have an opinion of you but be thankful the rules don't allow me to express what I really think you are being.
 
Praxas said:
Doesn't answer my question. Selling victim culture? Puuuhlease. No you guys just want to out LGBT folks and nothing more.
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Who is "you guys"?

Selling Victim Culture has long been a very serious business, to the extent that a lot of folks are fine with degrading the english language to do it, you should take the program to construct your opinions for you more seriously.
 
Praxas said:
I have an opinion of you but be thankful the rules don't allow me to express what I really think you are being.
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So you're saying you would keep your friend in the dark to protect her secret? I can understand why people don't want to give up transgenders in general situations, but I don't get your position at all. Are you willing to let him burn away years in ignorance just to keep her secret?
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Places like Survivor selling Victim Culture is very much my business.
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I had no idea you were such a precious snowflake :mrgreen:


Keep in mind Survivor chose to bring this subject up so OK, let's talk about it, and let's talk about what they are selling and why.
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Survivor is selling itself. It's a commercial enterprise, an entertainment product, a TV show that displays an edited and sculpted version of reality.

They aren't political activists, but that doesn't stop players and producers from using the show as a platform from time to time.

None of this makes what happened any less real. One player outed another as transgender, in a way that everyone there knew meant this would be extremely difficult to contain. It was a real issue for Zeke, who looked like he got smacked upside the head by being outed that way. It was a real issue for Varner, who gradually realized some of the enormity of what he'd done. It was a real situation for the other players, who quickly and unanimously supported Zeke.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
With as highly scripted as these shows are "The contestants did it" needs to be in quotes.
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Sometimes that's true. Again it was edited and sculpted after the fact -- e.g. the show worked with GLAAD and Zeke on a whole media package that was ready to go the instant the show aired.

However, it's pretty obvious that all the players' reactions were genuine. None of the other players had any idea that was going to happen. Varner was the only one who knew what he was going to do, and he didn't realize how badly it was going to blow up in his face.
 
Visbek said:
I had no idea you were such a precious snowflake :mrgreen:



Survivor is selling itself. It's a commercial enterprise, an entertainment product, a TV show that displays an edited and sculpted version of reality.

They aren't political activists, but that doesn't stop players and producers from using the show as a platform from time to time.

None of this makes what happened any less real. One player outed another as transgender, in a way that everyone there knew meant this would be extremely difficult to contain. It was a real issue for Zeke, who looked like he got smacked upside the head by being outed that way. It was a real issue for Varner, who gradually realized some of the enormity of what he'd done. It was a real situation for the other players, who quickly and unanimously supported Zeke.
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Hollywood and it's products are some of the most highly charged political tools in our culture, and this show is highly scripted, this result was not a fluke.....The only way I support your view is is someone under oath says that the producers were never told before that show was constructed that this person is transgender.....of which I say there is like a 2% chance that this is true.
 
Visbek said:
The network didn't "ban" Varner. Their YouTube channel had the normal "Day After" interview. The players were in the stage of the game where they decide who goes home that week; Varner was unanimously booted by the other players.

The show and network had Zeke's consent to show the events.
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i read on another site there was no elimination vote and the network kicked him but whatever. Here is my point:

Really this just demonstrates how low someone will go for even a 1/20 chance at $1 million. That's really what the show is about so i can't see how the show isn't complicit in some way. It's easy for the others and you and me to condemn what Varner (who, being gay, probably wouldn't enjoy being outted either) did, but none of us were at the threshold of losing that chance

See other shows over the years like "who wants to marry a millionaire" or just look to your average business owner to see what so many will stoop to for even much less of a payday. Dignity and decency do not belong in a discussion of these shows and it's one reason i don't watch
 
chromium said:
i read on another site there was no elimination vote and the network kicked him but whatever. Here is my point:

Really this just demonstrates how low someone will go for even a 1/20 chance at $1 million. That's really what the show is about so i can't see how the show isn't complicit in some way. It's easy for the others and you and me to condemn what Varner (who, being gay, probably wouldn't enjoy being outted either) did, but none of us were at the threshold of losing that chance

See other shows over the years like "who wants to marry a millionaire" or just look to your average business owner to see what so many will stoop to for even much less of a payday. Dignity and decency do not belong in a discussion of these shows and it's one reason i don't watch
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I don't know..this stinks to me. Zeke claims he never disclosed his transgender status to anyone but if that's true then how did Jeff Varner know? I've also read that Zeke and GLAAD met with CBS months ahead of the airing to discuss how it would be aired and arrange interviews for Zeke. I'm starting to think it was staged.
 
Napoleon said:
I don't know..this stinks to me. Zeke claims he never disclosed his transgender status to anyone but if that's true then how did Jeff Varner know? I've also read that Zeke and GLAAD met with CBS months ahead of the airing to discuss how it would be aired and arrange interviews for Zeke. I'm starting to think it was staged.
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obviously might have been, may have even hired Varner for this purpose. Being the ultimate whores, a network will do anything to generate news
 
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