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Does Prior Consent Indicate Future Consent

Goshin said:
Yes, anyone can change their mind at any point. Past a certain point, it is rather rude, though, and likely to engender lasting animosity.


But if you spent Friday and Saturday texting your GFs that you were going to spend the night at Bonzo's apt and screw his brains out, lots of luck proving rape if you changed your mind during late foreplay or something. Not saying that's what happened, speaking generally.
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That's probably true, and undoubtedly not right at the same time.

I guess it goes to credibility of the victim. "She said yes before she said no" can be interpreted by a jury as "she said yes and then lied afterwards, for one reason or another, to claim rape." It's not like that never happened either. So, I can maybe see the reason a jury would be hesitant to convict on her testimony alone.
 
calamity said:
That's probably true, and undoubtedly not right at the same time.

I guess it goes to credibility of the victim. "She said yes before she said no" can be interpreted by a jury as "she said yes and then lied afterwards, for one reason or another, to claim rape." It's not like that never happened either. So, I can maybe see the reason a jury would be hesitant to convict on her testimony alone.
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False claims of rape for revenge purposes are regrettably pretty common... enough to put legitimate claims into question if there's evidence of prior consent. It's not a perfect world and people lie a lot.
 
Goshin said:
False claims of rape for revenge purposes are regrettably pretty common... enough to put legitimate claims into question if there's evidence of prior consent. It's not a perfect world and people lie a lot.
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Sure. Jealousy, finances, feeling mistreated, etc, All of them could serve as a motive to set someone up for rape.

It's even possible that someone may actually believe that they were raped even if they legally were not. I look at the Kobe Bryant case for an example of that perhaps being the case. From what I can tell it was a consensual encounter gone wrong. He was apparently a bit rougher than she would have preferred. And, afterwards, he rudely dismissed her more coldly than she probably expected. In the end, she saw it as rape. He probably had no idea that the encounter had not gone as well as she had hoped.

It would be very difficult to sit on that kind of a jury.
 
calamity said:
I know that...I'm just expanding on the issue. Can a woman change her mind at anytime? Does a man have to comply?
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Yes, she can change her mind at any time. Yes, he has to comply.
 
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calamity said:
IMO, this happens a lot. Woman indicates she is interested in having sex, tells her friends, tells you , tells the world that she is ready to **** you. Then, something goes terribly wrong. You somehow pissed her off, and she changes her mind, leaving the more civilized among us sitting alone at the end of the evening, wondering where we went wrong.

There are some, however, who will not agree that sitting alone, licking one's wounds at the end of the evening, is the only option here. They may even say that once she agreed to sex, there is no backing out. It's a firm commitment, like a contract. So, instead of sitting home alone all disappointed, they may argue that you can just take that sex you were promised, whether she agrees or not.


Think I am joking? Uh, no. That seems to be the exact reason why this clown is getting a new trial.
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In some limited cases, I think it does. If you're in a long term relationship with someone, I think you can assume consent in some circumstances.
 
molten_dragon said:
In some limited cases, I think it does. If you're in a long term relationship with someone, I think you can assume consent in some circumstances.
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Assuming consent has its limits though. For example, assuming consent does not give you the right to stick it in her butt while she is a sleep. Nor does it give the man the right to ignore a stern "No." But, yes, it does cover a lot up until those points.
 
calamity said:
Assuming consent has its limits though. For example, assuming consent does not give you the right to stick it in her butt while she is a sleep. Nor does it give the man the right to ignore a stern "No." But, yes, it does cover a lot up until those points.
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Yeah, there are definitely limits. And just because you can consent is generally assumed doesn't mean it can't be revoked.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Yes and yes

It should be that simple

Even during sex, if she says or he says stop, then it needs to stop (given a reasonable time for it to stop (30 seconds or so).
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Thirty seconds to stop or thirty seconds advance notice?
 
calamity said:
I know that...I'm just expanding on the issue. Can a woman change her mind at anytime? Does a man have to comply?
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Yes, even AFTER the sex act. She can retroactively accuse you of rape. Ask Emma Sulkowicz. Do a web search if you haven't heard of her.
 
SDET said:
Yes, even AFTER the sex act. She can retroactively accuse you of rape. Ask Emma Sulkowicz. Do a web search if you haven't heard of her.
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Obviously it is situations like that which make people who were actually raped jump through hoops to prove it.
 
Phys251 said:
Thirty seconds to stop or thirty seconds advance notice?
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I would say 30 seconds to stop, if you are in the middle of it, you might not recognize what was being asked right away
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
I would say 30 seconds to stop, if you are in the middle of it, you might not recognize what was being asked right away
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Uh. Dude, if there's any doubt whatsoever, you stop and check in with your partner. A lot of damage can be done in 30 seconds.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
I would say 30 seconds to stop, if you are in the middle of it, you might not recognize what was being asked right away
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One option would be if she says stop in the middle of it, stop, but then dump her immediately.
 
Fishking said:
No, prior consent does not indicate future consent. You could have had sex with someone 999 times and if the person says "no" on the 1,000, even after they had previously said "yes, then it's rape.
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If they say "no". A key point. Setting aside the linked article to look at the general, most spouses have assumed consent. Yes, if the spouse says "no" then it's no (or uses the appropriate safe word in such relationships). However, especially in such long term relationships prior consent does indicate future consent. It just doesn't negate the partner's ability to withdraw said consent
 
calamity said:
Assuming consent has its limits though. For example, assuming consent does not give you the right to stick it in her butt while she is a sleep. Nor does it give the man the right to ignore a stern "No." But, yes, it does cover a lot up until those points.
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The arse play is irrelavant. The sentence could just as easily read, "...assuming consent does not give you the right to stick it up her vagina while she is asleep." And the same principle could be said for her hopping on top of him while he's asleep. But when using the words assuming consent, we could just as easily also assume consent to sex while asleep and/or in the arse, if the person was doing them.
 
maquiscat said:
The arse play is irrelavant. The sentence could just as easily read, "...assuming consent does not give you the right to stick it up her vagina while she is asleep." And the same principle could be said for her hopping on top of him while he's asleep. But when using the words assuming consent, we could just as easily also assume consent to sex while asleep and/or in the arse, if the person was doing them.
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I would say it depends on whether or not anal sex is typical of the couple in question.

If she's sleeping then that is not the time to try something new.
 
calamity said:
I know that...I'm just expanding on the issue. Can a woman change her mind at anytime? Does a man have to comply?
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Yes a woman can change her mind at any time and yes the man would have to comply.

Let's reverse the situation. Say that Bob and his wife Sally had agreed in the morning that they would have sex that evening. Bob goes out and works on his to-do list. One of the things on the list was a little too much for him and he pulls a groin muscle.

Would Bob have the right to say to Sally "I know we were going to have sex tonight, but I'm in too much pain."? Would Sally have to comply with the change of heart that Bob had?

Or what if Bob got a phone call with some sad news and he's no longer in the mood. Would he have the right to change his mind? Would Sally have to deal with it?

What if Bob had a to-do list and getting everything done just made him too darn tired to perform? What then?

Consent is something that can be given and taken away at the discretion of the person giving it. If a person is no longer in the mod for sex and removes the consent, then the other person(s) must deal with that fact and move on. To force the issue is assault.
 
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