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Therapy for pedophiles?

Should there be therapy for pedophiles?

  • yes

    Votes: 10 62.5%

  • no

    Votes: 5 31.3%

  • not sure

    Votes: 1 6.3%
  • Total voters
    16
M

Masterhawk

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After hearing about milo, it gave me an opportunity to post an idea: help prevent pedos from offending. The UK is trying this solution and Germany is starting to step in

Treating Pedophiles: Therapy Can Work, But It's a Challenge

If it reduces child sexual abuse, maybe the US can also try this solution as opposed to relying on the sex offender registry (only a third of all sex offenders re-offend within 5 years).
 
I would be okay with therapy for those who want to get off the registry. They attend sessions for at least a year and do not reoffend for 5 years and they can come off. Give them some real incentive to change.
 
It sounds like a bunch of mushy crap. My sympathy, such as it is, would extend to pedophiles who haven't hurt kids. They should be able to seek help to avoid offending, because to my mind driving it underground will only encourage them to stop giving a damn about society's rules. So if they want to seek a therapist fine. But to rely on that with those who've already raped kids sounds crazy. Another thing Germany does, since you mention it, is offer castration to reduce sentence. CA has also started this. What a German study has found is the rate that they go back to harming kids drops to 3%, compared to 45% for those who don't. I'm sure it's not a pleasant procedure to undergo, but it's also a serious solution to a serious problem
 
HonestJoe said:
How many other problems would you like to solve by just killing people?
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As far as I am concerned, anyone who harms a child, physically or sexually, is not fit to live in society. Incarcerating a person is the most barbaric, cruel punishment there is and I cannot fathom the mind of a person who would see someone subjected to loss of freedom, rape, bashing and, in some cases, murder. If I was sentenced to prison for life or several years, I would demand the death penalty for myself. Anyway, there are some crimes that are unforgivable and the perpetrator NEVER pays their debt to society. The pedophile gives a child he/she abuses a life sentence but expects to walk free eventually and have all forgiven. I know that an innocent victim's life is no longer worth very much in our societies, a few years usually, but that's it. Choose to violate a child, then expect to pay the full penalty. Trouble is that penalty is a pittance compared to a life sentence, or the death of a victim.
 
LadyMoonlight said:
As far as I am concerned, anyone who harms a child, physically or sexually, is not fit to live in society.
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We’re not necessarily talking about people who have harmed a child but people who suffer from inappropriate psychological and sexual feelings towards pre-pubescent children.

LadyMoonlight said:
Incarcerating a person is the most barbaric, cruel punishment there is and I cannot fathom the mind of a person who would see someone subjected to loss of freedom, rape, bashing and, in some cases, murder. If I was sentenced to prison for life or several years, I would demand the death penalty for myself.
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Doesn’t that make you desire to simply kill paedophiles inconsistent with giving them the worst possible punishment then? That’s why I don’t believe you really thought through your response as you’re now trying to here to rationalise it, you just reacted.

This isn’t personal – your instinctive reaction is perfectly normal and perfectly human. That doesn’t make it right though. I don’t think we should let our desires to simply make the scary things and difficult (impossible?) problems just “go away” be our sole driving force.
 
CriticalThought said:
I would be okay with therapy for those who want to get off the registry. They attend sessions for at least a year and do not reoffend for 5 years and they can come off. Give them some real incentive to change.
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Some do change with the right counseling. I have a friendship with a past sexual offender. (not a pedo).......but it wasn't easy at first due to many of our work associates.

I caught a ration of **** from many of the other drivers for befriending this particular driver while I was driving Dumps for a year and a half. It turned out that the only driver who bothered to help me learn all the job site locations, material suppliers, and techniques, happened to be a prior sexual offender. I was a little taken back after learning about it I suppose, but there was no way I was going to treat the guy the way many of the others did, especially after all the time he took helping the "FNG" in learning the routes to 30-35 material suppliers & 16 different job sites. The other drivers treated the guy pretty bad, even if not directly to his face. I asked my boss about the situation while we were alone one day and he filled me in on it. He then told me that he appreciated me not isolating the guy like the others drivers always have, and he would have us run together as much as possible. About a month before I left, he and his wife tried to tell me about his past while I was helping them move some antiques with my pick up to their house on one of our days off. I quickly told them both to shut up about it, and live in the present...... I already knew......and I don't care. His wife told me later that I was the only driver out of 30-35 others that had ever been to their house in the 20 years the guy had worked there.......never mind doing him a favor on my off time. When I gave my 2 weeks notice, I was asked by the company safety officer who I recommended to replace me as the "driver safety rep". You could have heard a pin drop as soon as I mentioned his name, but I learned later on that he ended up getting the position.
 
WCH said:
The general theory for many decades has been there's no cure for this disorder.
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You appear to be arguing in favour of executing anyone with an incurable and potentially harmful condition. Would you like to reconsider? :shock:
 
CriticalThought said:
I would be okay with therapy for those who want to get off the registry. They attend sessions for at least a year and do not reoffend for 5 years and they can come off. Give them some real incentive to change.
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No ****ing way.

It's far too easy to game the system. These creeps are very good at playing normal, when they have to. Everyone of them will pretend to be "cured" and then re-offend. IMO, once you get busted molesting a child, you should be marked for life---kind of like they did to the child.

What I would advocate, however, is mandatory therapy. "Take the treatments for life, or go back to jail. Your choice."
 
First, we must distinguish (as Milo tired to point out in that old video which caused so much trouble) between true pedophiles and those we lump in under that title.

Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children. Pedophilia is used for individuals with a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children aged 13 or younger. A person who is diagnosed with pedophilia must be at least 16 years old, but adolescents must be at least five years older than the prepubescent child for the attraction to be diagnosed as pedophilia.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

Ephebophilia is the primary or exclusive adult sexual interest in mid-to-late adolescents, generally ages 15 to 19. Ephebophilia strictly denotes the preference for mid-to-late adolescent sexual partners, not the mere presence of some level of sexual attraction. Generally, the preference is not regarded by psychologists as a pathology when it does not interfere with other major areas of one's life, and is not listed by name as a mental disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 5th Edition (DSM-5), the ICD-10, or as a paraphilia.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia

Most Americans have a tendency to lump all sexual attraction for "minors," (i.e. persons under the age of 18) as pedophilia; when (as Milo also tried to point out however badly) sexual attraction to post-pubescent minors is a perfectly normal and natural phenomena of human sexuality.

IMO, true pedophilia is a mental disorder that demands treatment. That a sex offender who actually abuses prepubescent children requires incarceration in a penal mental institution until such time as a panel of mental health professionals deems them safe to return to society. Even then such felons would require ongoing mental counseling and monitoring.

Those who merely violated a moral code by having sex with under-aged, but fully "adult," minors should be treated like any other criminal. Punished for the level of their crime (consensual vs non-consensual), then allowed to re-renter society without undue limits on their liberty interests.
 
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HonestJoe said:
You appear to be arguing in favour of executing anyone with an incurable and potentially harmful condition. Would you like to reconsider? :shock:
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Not at all. I'm saying there's a consensus they can't be cured.

Not saying there aren't some who need to be put down for their crimes but, generally speaking, removing them from society would do.
 
Captain Adverse said:
First, we must distinguish (as Milo tired to point out in that old video which caused so much trouble) between true pedophiles and those we lump in under that title.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia

Most Americans have a tendency to lump all sexual attraction for "minors," (i.e. persons under the age of 18) as pedophilia; when as Milo also tried to point out (however badly) that sexual attraction to post-pubescent minors is a perfectly normal and natural phenomena of human sexuality.

IMO, true pedophilia is a mental disorder that demands treatment. That a sex offender who actually abuses prepubescent children requires incarceration in a penal mental institution until such time as a panel of mental health professionals deems them safe to return to society. Even then such felons would require ongoing mental counseling and monitoring.

Those who merely violated a moral code by having sex with under-aged but fully "adult" minors should be treated like any other criminal. Punished for their crime then allowed to re-renter society without undue limits on their liberty interests.
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There are three distinctions: pedophilia, hebephilia and ephebophilia. All three are a sexual disorder, although it could be argued that ephebophilia is the least horrendous of the three. The other two target minors under age 15, with pedophilia being the worst since it targets prepubescent children.
 
WCH said:
Not at all. I'm saying there's a consensus they can't be cured.

Not saying there aren't some who need to be put down for their crimes but, generally speaking, removing them from society would do.
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It actually can be treated, but not to the point where we can call it a cure. At best, with lifelong therapy, monitoring and perhaps even the use of some drugs, it can be controlled.
 
calamity said:
There are three distinctions: pedophilia, hebephilia and ephebophilia. All three are a sexual disorder, although it could be argued that ephebophilia is the least horrendous of the three. The other two target minors under age 15, with pedophilia being the worst since it targets prepubescent children.
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Depends on which view you accept.

Hebephilia is the strong and persistent adult sexual interest in pubescent (early adolescent) individuals, typically ages 11–14. Hebephilia is approximate in its age range because the onset and completion of puberty vary...the DSM-5 extends the prepubescent age to 13, the ICD-10 includes early pubertal age in its definition of pedophilia, and some definitions of ephebophilia include adolescents aged 14 to late adolescents.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebephilia

The DSM is the American model, while the ICD is the World Health Organization model which is always a little more "progressive" in it's lean.


When I say "adult" minors I am referring to those in puberty and physically (if not recognized as mentally) capable of sexual relations. At this stage IMO the facts should be examined on a case by case basis. Having had the opportunity to assist in the defense of a couple such cases, I have learned things are not as black and white as many seem to think.
 
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Masterhawk said:
After hearing about milo, it gave me an opportunity to post an idea: help prevent pedos from offending. The UK is trying this solution and Germany is starting to step in

Treating Pedophiles: Therapy Can Work, But It's a Challenge

If it reduces child sexual abuse, maybe the US can also try this solution as opposed to relying on the sex offender registry (only a third of all sex offenders re-offend within 5 years).
Click to expand...

Take two of these and call me in the morning.

3050325-slide-s-3-the-clown-gun-slows-down-police-bullets.jpg
 
Masterhawk said:
After hearing about milo, it gave me an opportunity to post an idea: help prevent pedos from offending. The UK is trying this solution and Germany is starting to step in

Treating Pedophiles: Therapy Can Work, But It's a Challenge

If it reduces child sexual abuse, maybe the US can also try this solution as opposed to relying on the sex offender registry (only a third of all sex offenders re-offend within 5 years).
Click to expand...

There was a pedophile who lived down the road from us when I was growing up. We were told to not go to his house and he was told to not talk to us. One day, he was burning his field and my brother and my brother and I saw the fire. Thinking that his field was on fire and needed to be put out, we grabbed a couple of shovels and buckets and ran down to help. Charlie (the pedophile) saw us coming and yelled at us to stop and go home - NOW!! He was literally afraid of us (actually he was afraid of my Dad). Our society has gone from one where pedophiles are afraid of us to one where we are afraid of pedophiles.
 
calamity said:
No ****ing way.

It's far too easy to game the system. These creeps are very good at playing normal, when they have to. Everyone of them will pretend to be "cured" and then re-offend. IMO, once you get busted molesting a child, you should be marked for life---kind of like they did to the child.

What I would advocate, however, is mandatory therapy. "Take the treatments for life, or go back to jail. Your choice."
Click to expand...

The problem with this perspective is...

1: It really does nothing to protect children since being on thathe list does not curtail repeat offences.
2: Mandatory therapy does not work. I have been in the feild for a number of years and have learned as much from experience and the research on the matter.
3: It creates a stigma that actually increases the chance that some will reoffend or do worse. If you can't get a job, a place to live, and are ostracized by every community then you are limited in your options.
4: Such people often have families and obligations of their own, which means continuing to punish them in perpetuity after they have served their time is also a sentence on their family and children.
5. Not every person on a sexual offender registry is a child molester. You will find people on there for public urination or other odd ball crimes.
6: Sexual abuse is NOT a permanent mark on a person and it actually does harm to survivors to perpetuate the myth that it does. It is bad and can be very traumatic but people recover to lead fully functional lives without distress from those incidents.
 
calamity said:
No ****ing way.

It's far too easy to game the system. These creeps are very good at playing normal, when they have to. Everyone of them will pretend to be "cured" and then re-offend. IMO, once you get busted molesting a child, you should be marked for life---kind of like they did to the child.

What I would advocate, however, is mandatory therapy. "Take the treatments for life, or go back to jail. Your choice."
Click to expand...

The problem with this perspective is...

1: It really does nothing to protect children since being on that list does not curtail repeat offences.
2: Mandatory therapy does not work. I have been in the feild for a number of years and have learned as much from experience and the research on the matter.
3: It creates a stigma that actually increases the chance that some will reoffend or do worse. If you can't get a job, a place to live, and are ostracized by every community then you are limited in your options.
4: Such people often have families and obligations of their own, which means continuing to punish them in perpetuity after they have served their time is also a sentence on their family and children.
5. Not every person on a sexual offender registry is a child molester. You will find people on there for public urination or other odd ball crimes.
6: Sexual abuse is NOT a permanent mark on a person and it actually does harm to survivors to perpetuate the myth that it does. It is bad and can be very traumatic but people recover to lead fully functional lives without distress from those incidents.
 
There is so much more to all of this. You cant just say 'kill all pedophiles'. Well...OK...you CAN...but it doesnt make much sense. You cant just say 'incarcerate all pedophiles for life'. Again...I guess you CAN say it...it just is an ignorant position. You cant say pedophiles cannot be treated because thats simply not true. And if you understand the treatment models, you really cant say 'treatment for the rest of their life' because that would be destructive and far more likely to CAUSE relapse then to cure or stave off attacks.

MANY pedophiles are non-treatable for the same reason most consider personality disorders non-treatable. They adopt a narcissistic world view and they become that world view. I believe their REASONING is misunderstood. The narcissist does NOT have an over-inflated sense of ego...just the opposite. It is the ultimate defense mechanism. They are so emotionally damaged they cannot even allow for the possibility that they have done something wrong, and in the case of a pedophile, something so heinous. They certainly cannot face the reality that they have brutalized and victimized a child. So...THEY become the victims. It wasnt their fault, they didnt do anything wrong, the child seduced them, they were only trying to help...excuse after excuse. And they do a pretty decent job of convincing themselves what they are saying is true. At least enough so that they dont end up hanging themselves with their own bed linen.

Most prisons use a 'system'. They are sold an 'evidence based' product and employ it as a one size fits all treatment model. Often those models are built on shame based tactics. They tend to create 'smart rats'...people understand what they are supposed to say after a while. Prisons often contract out the task of providing 'therapy' to companies with the lowest bid. Those companies then hire a bunch of under-licensed providers to second chair group sessions (and in all honesty...often without fully licensed first chairs) which also can be worthless at best and often times, destructive. Frankly...Ive seen group discussion on reducing pedo-attraction often do nothing but stimulate arousal. But while the expectation is that anywhere from 15-35% will relapse (regardless of treatment or treatment models) and some estimates are as high as 50%, the statistics suggest the majority of pedophiles that successfully undergo treatement do NOT relapse. But since there is an expectation that treatment will only be so effective, then why not do it as cheaply as possible? (My experience is the two biggest factors in change for those that successfully complete the program are 1-Prison (cuz it can be a bitch and most people REALLY dont want to go back) and 2-Those that are identified as pedophiles (sex offenders) are not true sex offenders (as was mentioned-people can be arrested and labelled as pedophiles/predators/sex offenders for a wide variety of reasons).

Individual therapy is the best way to identify true predators, treat predators, and determine if the treatment is effective or the responses are just rote. There is a delicate balance between understanding the monster and helping the monster (and many of those that are good subjects for positive treatment DO see themselves as monsters) vs reinforcing the monster.
 
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I think that is a very good idea. Anyone who abuses children sexually or otherwise should be exterminated. Tomorrow, if possible.
 
They are sick, evil people! Who would want to sexually abuse a child? A little kid who trusts everyone encounters this totally evil person. This person needs to be exiled to a secluded island with others like him and let them feed off one another.
 
Masterhawk said:
After hearing about milo, it gave me an opportunity to post an idea: help prevent pedos from offending. The UK is trying this solution and Germany is starting to step in

Treating Pedophiles: Therapy Can Work, But It's a Challenge

If it reduces child sexual abuse, maybe the US can also try this solution as opposed to relying on the sex offender registry (only a third of all sex offenders re-offend within 5 years).
Click to expand...

My understanding is that it doesn't work.
 
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