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Why you can't support LGBT rights and be a Constitutional "libertarian"[W:295]

Re: Why you can't support LGBT rights and be a Constitutional "libertarian"

Gonzo Rodeo said:
Not for nothing, but it was the political left that was against the Civil Rights Movement. FDR's New Deal coalition reigned supreme until '64.
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Re: Why you can't support LGBT rights and be a Constitutional "libertarian"

Gonzo Rodeo said:
You can try to explain the voting record away with Simpson's Paradox, but that doesn't explain why the old confederate south was a Democrat stronghold in the first place. Early 20th century union and worker's movements were billed as a way to keep blacks from taking white jobs, because they were needed on the farms doing black farmhand work.

The historical record is there, for everyone to see.
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Except as I mentioned in another thread between 1840 and 1870's the "Democratic Party" policies were that of the current Republican Party. in the 1870's the two parties for a number of reasons they flip flopped. This is the American record only the revised Republican History would not know this.
 
Re: Why you can't support LGBT rights and be a Constitutional "libertarian"

ttwtt78640 said:
That is nonsense. The churches are not able to enforce contracts - that is left to the government.
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You are talking about two types of marriage. There are way more forms of marriage besides that which fits the Christian stereotype. Legal is among them. While the religious should not think that the legal marriage should follow their religious restrictions, nor should those think of religious marriages as contracts.
 
Ovid said:
If one is a Constitutionalist who believes that the Bill of Rights have objective meaning, then of course courts cannot simply change and or re-amend the Constitution on a whim to mean whatever they want, and I see little to no evidence indicating that the Constitution as interpreted by its framers ever supported the notion of same-sex unions being equal to marriage between a man and a woman.

This notion actually has far more in common with the egalitarianism or utilitarianism of John Stuart Mill and Jeremy Bentham (which completely rejected the notion of natural rights, and argued that rights come only from the state).

So if you claim to be a Constitutional libertarian, but support LGBT rights under the Constitution, then this means you believe in a 'living Constitution', and that the rights have no objective worth, but can simply be re-interpreted at the whim of the state to mean whatever they want.
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If you are a constitutional libertarian you know that authority over marriage or any other special interest is not a power given to the federal government.
 
Re: Why you can't support LGBT rights and be a Constitutional "libertarian"

Tanngrisnir said:
Completely irrelevant to the fact that the people who pushed the Civil Rights movement were liberals. I.E, the left.

History demonstrates that my statement is valid.
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So, you are saying that the Republicans of the day were the liberals?
 
Re: Why you can't support LGBT rights and be a Constitutional "libertarian"

chromium said:
Because there's laws against discrimination in 20 states and numerous cities and libertarians want to get rid of them? Along with the civil rights act and all other restrictions on discrimination. It's right in their party platform so obviously i don't agree with your assessment
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Please don't confuse libertarians with Libertarians. The LP is the only political party, at least in the US that has adopted the name of a political,philosophy as their party name. There is no Conservative Party or Liberal Party. Just several policial parties that are either liberal or conservative. Not all libertarians are part of the LP, or even agree with all or part of their platform.
 
Re: Why you can't support LGBT rights and be a Constitutional "libertarian"

Lord of Planar said:
Why should marriage be an enforceable contract?
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As far as the religious marriage goes, it does not need to be. My first wife and I were married for several years before we bothered to obtain the legal contract. The same now goes for our quad as a whole, although the two original couples both have legal status. Now if a couple wants any of the legal status as relatives, with the spouse being legally overriding to blood or previous legal relatives, then yes that is a function of government.
 
Re: Why you can't support LGBT rights and be a Constitutional "libertarian"

wolfman24 said:
Except as I mentioned in another thread between 1840 and 1870's the "Democratic Party" policies were that of the current Republican Party. in the 1870's the two parties for a number of reasons they flip flopped. This is the American record only the revised Republican History would not know this.
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So why did the Confederate south keep voting Democrat until the 1970s?
 
Re: Why you can't support LGBT rights and be a Constitutional "libertarian"

Gonzo Rodeo said:
So why did the Confederate south keep voting Democrat until the 1970s?
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You should go onto the thread called the great American flip flop it goes into great detail as to why with multiple posters and sources including mine.
 
Re: Why you can't support LGBT rights and be a Constitutional "libertarian"

maquiscat said:
Please don't confuse libertarians with Libertarians. The LP is the only political party, at least in the US that has adopted the name of a political,philosophy as their party name. There is no Conservative Party or Liberal Party. Just several policial parties that are either liberal or conservative. Not all libertarians are part of the LP, or even agree with all or part of their platform.
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There is no liberal party, this is true. The dems are mostly worthless centrists. I don't know many libertarians, so i can concede that the party might not represent their views, but on this forum, almost all of them want to do away with government completely just like the party. So i would tell it them frankly if you don't support discrimination
 
Re: Why you can't support LGBT rights and be a Constitutional "libertarian"

chromium said:
... but on this forum, almost all of them want to do away with government completely just like the party.
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I think you will need to do a name by name comparison. Most of the libertarians I know of on this site recognize the necessity of government. Now most of us feel that there is too much government on the Federal level and too little, comparatively only, lower down. And just too much overall.
 
Re: Why you can't support LGBT rights and be a Constitutional "libertarian"

maquiscat said:
Given that The Guardian is a left leaning publication, I'm calling bias. Try a fact checking site, that doesn't have such bias such as Snopes. Now I checks Snopes itself, and I didn't find anything, but they are known for not having a bias in either direction. There are others. Good hunting.
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LOL! So you're not actually disputing the evidence in the article that I linked to, you're criticizing where it is.

OK.
 
Re: Why you can't support LGBT rights and be a Constitutional "libertarian"

Tanngrisnir said:
LOL! So you're not actually disputing the evidence in the article that I linked to, you're criticizing where it is.

OK.
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No I am not disputing it, nor am I acknowledging it. Even a bias site will have elements of the truth in it. I am asking for a site that holds no bias so that the parts that are truth can be revealed. This is before we look at the fact that the article itself notes it is an opinion piece. Which means, that while there may be some fact involved, the conclusion is purely opinion.
 
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