Why is it shameful for men to advocate legalization of sex work?

In USA and other places where paying for sex is illegal, tens of millions of men live lives of loneliness and misery. In most Europe, where both buying and selling sex is legal, that is not the issue. Definitely decriminalizing sex work between consenting adults would greatly improve the lives of people who can not find a partner. In UK, purchasing sex from a trafficking victim is a strict liability offense and yet consensual sex work is legal.

They could have formed strong advocacy groups for decriminalization, and yet most would be ashamed to even speak on the issue. For some reason being accused of being a bitter virgin is one of the worst insults.

Sex work has been widely practiced in most historical civilizations. In Western Civilization it has been practiced in Ancient Greece and Rome, and in all Catholic and Protestant (not Orthodox Christian) countries during the Middle Ages, Renaissance, and in most places up to now.

Since the middle of the 19th century, there has been strong movement with many interest groups advocating criminalization of sex work. In most US states, both buying and selling of sex is a crime since early 20th century -- according to Uniform Crime Reports, p.204, 6,500 sex workers and 2,500 sex worker customers were arrested in 1940. According to "Arrest in the United States, 1990-2010" , p.2, 43,200 sex workers and 19,500 sex worker customers were arrested in 1940.

Due to the pressure from pro-criminalization groups, purchasing sex has been criminalized in Sweden 1999, South Korea 2004, Norway 2009, Iceland 2009, North Ireland and Canada 2014, France 2016. Currently, there are women's organizations opposing sex work and sex worker's organizations supporting decriminalization of sex work.

I'm for the legalization of Prostitution.

SCitizen said:

In USA and other places where paying for sex is illegal, tens of millions of men live lives of loneliness and misery. In most Europe, where both buying and selling sex is legal, that is not the issue. Definitely decriminalizing sex work between consenting adults would greatly improve the lives of people who can not find a partner. In UK, purchasing sex from a trafficking victim is a strict liability offense and yet consensual sex work is legal.

They could have formed strong advocacy groups for decriminalization, and yet most would be ashamed to even speak on the issue. For some reason being accused of being a bitter virgin is one of the worst insults.

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If you look at just how bad the porn industry is for most of the women in it, its shameful for anyone to advocate for sex work legalization

Crovax said:

If you look at just how bad the porn industry is for most of the women in it, its shameful for anyone to advocate for sex work legalization

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I'm curious.

Are you implying that American porn stars are being forced to work in that field? That somehow they have no choice?

In my time I have encountered various people, both male and female, who work in that industry. To them it's just a job, they are simply acting. There are all sorts of reasons they start, and they stop when they wish (or can't get hired whichever comes first).

I can't argue that the majority of U. S. prostitutes (male or female) are doing it because they want to...being how it is illegal and dangerous work everywhere in America but for one or two counties in Nevada.

But from the various documentaries on legal prostitution here and abroad...it seems to work out for everyone involved because they have the protection of the law.

So I am not sure what you are saying in your comment.

Actually one of the worst positions for a woman is nursing assistant with median salary of $28,534. For a man it would be Alaska fisherman.

SCitizen said:

In USA and other places where paying for sex is illegal, tens of millions of men live lives of loneliness and misery. In most Europe, where both buying and selling sex is legal, that is not the issue. Definitely decriminalizing sex work between consenting adults would greatly improve the lives of people who can not find a partner. In UK, purchasing sex from a trafficking victim is a strict liability offense and yet consensual sex work is legal.

They could have formed strong advocacy groups for decriminalization, and yet most would be ashamed to even speak on the issue. For some reason being accused of being a bitter virgin is one of the worst insults.

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Well, I am DEFINITELY for legalization of prostitution, drug use and just about anything between sane, consenting adults.

But if a man is lonely and miserable, I really don't think spending hundreds of dollars per hour for a prostitute is going to magically transform his life for the better...possibly the opposite.

But, each to his own.

Captain Adverse said:

I'm curious.

Are you implying that American porn stars are being forced to work in that field? That somehow they have no choice?

In my time I have encountered various people, both male and female, who work in that industry. To them it's just a job, they are simply acting. There are all sorts of reasons they start, and they stop when they wish (or can't get hired whichever comes first).

I can't argue that the majority of U. S. prostitutes (male or female) are doing it because they want to...being how it is illegal and dangerous work everywhere in America but for one or two counties in Nevada.

But from the various documentaries on legal prostitution here and abroad...it seems to work out for everyone involved because they have the protection of the law.

So I am not sure what you are saying in your comment.

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The rate of drug and alcohol abuse, the lack of any real regulation, the treatment the girls receive, the high rate of suicide in porn is appalling. Is it worse if its illegal? probably for the ones that are in it but its still bad and it would expand the number on women in the occupation. so overall I think it would be much worse for women in general even if it would marginally help some women.

SCitizen said:

In USA and other places where paying for sex is illegal, tens of millions of men live lives of loneliness and misery. In most Europe, where both buying and selling sex is legal, that is not the issue. Definitely decriminalizing sex work between consenting adults would greatly improve the lives of people who can not find a partner. In UK, purchasing sex from a trafficking victim is a strict liability offense and yet consensual sex work is legal.

They could have formed strong advocacy groups for decriminalization, and yet most would be ashamed to even speak on the issue. For some reason being accused of being a bitter virgin is one of the worst insults.

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You think it is shameful to legalize women's rights?

Crovax said:

If you look at just how bad the porn industry is for most of the women in it, its shameful for anyone to advocate for sex work legalization

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Is it really? I would think that it is probably like many things. If the young girl is revered and thought a representative of the Goddess and practicing the good rites in the temple as in some cases in ancient history, there is probably no consequential trauma from the pedophile activities and the girl is protected into the position as priestess. If you forbid prostitution, on the other hand, and make the women dependent on unscrupulous thugs for protection life develops along a different trajectory.

joG said:

Is it really? I would think that it is probably like many things. If the young girl is revered and thought a representative of the Goddess and practicing the good rites in the temple as in some cases in ancient history, there is probably no consequential trauma from the pedophile activities and the girl is protected into the position as priestess. If you forbid prostitution, on the other hand, and make the women dependent on unscrupulous thugs for protection life develops along a different trajectory.

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I assume this post is sarcasm

SCitizen said:

In USA and other places where paying for sex is illegal, tens of millions of men live lives of loneliness and misery. In most Europe, where both buying and selling sex is legal, that is not the issue. Definitely decriminalizing sex work between consenting adults would greatly improve the lives of people who can not find a partner. In UK, purchasing sex from a trafficking victim is a strict liability offense and yet consensual sex work is legal.

They could have formed strong advocacy groups for decriminalization, and yet most would be ashamed to even speak on the issue. For some reason being accused of being a bitter virgin is one of the worst insults.

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"tens of millions of men live lives of loneliness and misery" boo freaking hoo

SCitizen said:

In USA and other places where paying for sex is illegal, tens of millions of men live lives of loneliness and misery. In most Europe, where both buying and selling sex is legal, that is not the issue. Definitely decriminalizing sex work between consenting adults would greatly improve the lives of people who can not find a partner. In UK, purchasing sex from a trafficking victim is a strict liability offense and yet consensual sex work is legal.

They could have formed strong advocacy groups for decriminalization, and yet most would be ashamed to even speak on the issue. For some reason being accused of being a bitter virgin is one of the worst insults.

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You're saying a romp with a hooker will cure one of 'loneliness'?

I think you're conflating 'social interaction' with 'sexual outlet', here.

There may be some moderate intersection of the two, brief as it may be, but I don't buy your assertion here.

SCitizen said:

In USA and other places where paying for sex is illegal, tens of millions of men live lives of loneliness and misery.

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Of course men who'd have to pay for sex and fancy their worthless lives depending on it would live lives of loneliness and misery. That's why they should improve their character and virtue instead of being perpetual man-children who are a drain on society.

In most Europe, where both buying and selling sex is legal, that is not the issue.

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In actuality, the overall culture of Europe is far less sexually libertine, particularily their mass entertainment and pornography industries.

For that matter in some parts of the US, such as in Nevada, prostitution is legal and regulated. And it's not like that anyone desperate enough to use a 'working woman' for sex ever stopped because it was "illegal" anyway. What rot.

Definitely decriminalizing sex work between consenting adults would greatly improve the lives of people who can not find a partner.

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The type of curs who can't find a partner are those who society would be better off if they never found one or had any chance of reproducing to begin with.

Anyone who's notion of worth in life comes from having a partner, let alone one they have to pay for, is an embarrassment to society and deserves a bullet more than they do sympathy.

In UK, purchasing sex from a trafficking victim is a strict liability offense and yet consensual sex work is legal.

They could have formed strong advocacy groups for decriminalization, and yet most would be ashamed to even speak on the issue. For some reason being accused of being a bitter virgin is one of the worst insults.

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They have every reason to be ashamed, less because of their virginity, than the fact that even at 'adulthood' they are so arrested in development that they still define their worthless lives by their 'virginity' like a 13 year old schoolboy.

Virginity in and of itself is nothing to be ashamed of, but there's quite a difference between a wise ascetic monk and a grown man who's never held a job, lives with his mother, still watches My Little Pony, and has literally been 'friend-zoned' by his right hand. His lack of virtue and morality is to blame for his 'involuntary celibacy', and it's for the better of society that he remain that way.

Ovid said:

The type of curs who can't find a partner are those who society would be better off if they never found one or had any chance of reproducing to begin with.

Anyone who's notion of worth in life comes from having a partner, let alone one they have to pay for, is an embarrassment to society and deserves a bullet more than they do sympathy.

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No one expects sympathy from something like you, but threats of violence are over the top.

SCitizen said:

In USA and other places where paying for sex is illegal, tens of millions of men live lives of loneliness and misery. In most Europe, where both buying and selling sex is legal, that is not the issue. Definitely decriminalizing sex work between consenting adults would greatly improve the lives of people who can not find a partner. In UK, purchasing sex from a trafficking victim is a strict liability offense and yet consensual sex work is legal.

They could have formed strong advocacy groups for decriminalization, and yet most would be ashamed to even speak on the issue. For some reason being accused of being a bitter virgin is one of the worst insults.

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Because most men who support legalization argue it the way you do.

Your argument is that men are entitled to women's bodies when they're lonely. That is tantamount to believing in gender slavery, and your mindset is the reason that sex workers suffer so much abuse. You couldn't give less of a damn how sex workers are treated; you just believe you have some god-given right to sex whenever you want it with no consequences and with no concern for the well-being of whoever you're having sex with. That is why people shame you. Because your beliefs are shameful.

The reasons why prostitution needs to be decriminalized have absolutely nothing with men's feelings. Your feelings mean nothing, and they don't entitle you to other people's bodies.

S&M put it better than me, but I was going to say because you just want to get your rocks off. Not for any other reason.

Oh, is there still something shameful these days? I was under the impression we'd given up the entire concept of shame altogether...

SmokeAndMirrors said:

Your argument is that men are entitled to women's bodies when they're lonely. That is tantamount to believing in gender slavery, and your mindset is the reason that sex workers suffer so much abuse.

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I am not entitled to anyone's body. I understand that anything forbidden by law is not my right. As long as I am in USA, I follow American laws. Consensual sex work is not slavery.

But yes, every citizen, even men are entitled to express their opinions, form interest groups and vote on all the laws of the land. Maybe if there will be strong interest groups the laws will change.

SmokeAndMirrors said:

The reasons why prostitution needs to be decriminalized have absolutely nothing with men's feelings.

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It will be a decision made by all citizens. No one knows what will be public sentiment on the issue 20 years from now.

spud_meister said:

I was going to say because you just want to get your rocks off.

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I do not think it will be legal within 20 years -- definitely this is about the future of society rather then about me.

In all Socialist nations both the buyers and sellers of sexual services were criminalized -- and now in almost all former socialist countries including China that is not the case. Who knows what will the laws be in USA in 20 years?

SCitizen said:

I am not entitled to anyone's body. I understand that anything forbidden by law is not my right. As long as I am in USA, I follow American laws. Consensual sex work is not slavery.

But yes, every citizen, even men are entitled to express their opinions, form interest groups and vote on all the laws of the land. Maybe if there will be strong interest groups the laws will change.

It will be a decision made by all citizens. No one knows what will be public sentiment on the issue 20 years from now.

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See, even in your response you seem to be totally missing that no part of your argument actually addresses the rights or conditions of the sex worker. I don't even know how to explain this, to someone who doesn't seem to understand why leaving women out of a conversation ABOUT women is shameful. You seem to just categorize sex working women as non-person commodities which the government makes more or less difficult for you to buy, like drugs.

To you this is just simple. Pathetic men want sex, so make it legal for them to pay a pimp to send over some 16-year-old girl for sex.

That's prostitution as it exists in countries where it's illegal. And you seem to have simply glossed over all of that in favor of, "But men need to get their dicks wet and I don't like that doing so in certain ways comes with a risk of jail." I have no idea how to go about explaining to men like you that sex workers are human beings, because all you seem to care about are your dicks.

The interest group of "pathetic entitled men" is the biggest interest group in the world. We don't need more of them. We need more people who are genuinely interested in improving conditions for sex workers, not people who just want to **** a starving, homeless teenager without doing time in prison.

Whoever makes the decision, it still has nothing to do with men's feelings. If they make that decision based on men's feelings, they're still wrong, logically and ethically both.

You deserve to be ashamed, quite honestly. :shrug:

I do not seem to have rhetoric skills for vast exaggeration like SM.

I am also against buying sex from trafficked or underage persons -- I mentioned that it is a strict liability felony offense in UK.

SCitizen said:

I do not seem to have rhetoric skills for vast exaggeration like SM.

I am also against buying sex from trafficked or underage persons -- I mentioned that it is a strict liability felony offense in UK.

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Whether or not it's a felony has nothing to do with whether it's right or wrong. That's just a cop-out for you to avoid addressing it, probably because you don't actually care.

This is what you don't seem to get. Sex work isn't complicated as a result of the law being complicated. The law is complicated as a result of sex work being complicated. And sex work is complicated because sex workers are human beings, and all too often, people like you talk about them as if they were inanimate objects, which then encourages people to treat them like inanimate objects. And that's how we wind up with a situation where most prostitutes are in fact destitute and coerced. Just because you didn't see the coercion happen doesn't mean they're "consenting."

I know a bit about sex work where you're from, and it's even worse than it is in America. It really is basically just slavery in the Eastern Bloc. Half those girls are literally kidnapped. Nearly all of them are drug addicts. Don't even try to play dumb like you don't know that. You've seen them on the street and you know damn well where they come from.

And yet not one word in your OP about whether legal channels would improve things for sex workers.

That is why you should be ashamed. You don't actually care how badly sex workers are treated, as long as you're not the one going to jail over it. If you cared about the well-being of sex workers, it would be the center of your argument, because the fact is that it's the only part that matters. Your argument is entirely about pathetic, entitled men. That's the only part you care about.

Captain Adverse said:

I'm curious.

Are you implying that American porn stars are being forced to work in that field? That somehow they have no choice?

In my time I have encountered various people, both male and female, who work in that industry. To them it's just a job, they are simply acting. There are all sorts of reasons they start, and they stop when they wish (or can't get hired whichever comes first).

I can't argue that the majority of U. S. prostitutes (male or female) are doing it because they want to...being how it is illegal and dangerous work everywhere in America but for one or two counties in Nevada.

But from the various documentaries on legal prostitution here and abroad...it seems to work out for everyone involved because they have the protection of the law.

So I am not sure what you are saying in your comment.

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Your anecdotal encounters are just that. Look into it, read testimonials of past porn actresses. It's not pretty.

Not only that, but, porn and prostitution destroys marriages and families.

SCitizen said:

No one expects sympathy from something like you, but threats of violence are over the top.

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I made no threat, just wished that deviants of this nature would voluntarily stop wasting everyone's oxygen.