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Guy Win's Women's Tour de Tucson

More of the right begging for safe spaces so they can give participant trophies to their snowflakes. Figures.
 
BrewerBob said:
I am a strong advocate of trans rights. I'll refer to you by your preferred pronoun and I couldn't care less which bathroom you use. Live your life as the gender you identify with. Do what brings you joy and satsfaction as long as it doesn't infringe on others.

Taking an unfair advantage in competition DOES infringe on others. I am sure there are competitions where it doesn't matter like pool or chess or NASCAR.

But bicycle racing? Biological males have both muscular and cardiovascular advantages over biological females.

I get that it is disappointing. Biology isn't fair. It sometimes stops us from doing what we want. When I first went into the military I REALLY wanted to fly helicopters. But my poor color vision disqualified me. Biology isn't fair and sometimes it prevents us from doing what we want. That's life.
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Men are bigger, stronger, generate more power and probably have more athletic endurance than females. Proof is you never see an FTM go on to become a professional male boxer, an NHL hockey star or start challenging Lebron James by flying through the air and throwing down dunks over his head.
 
Henrin said:
Ok, so how would you deal with the fact that FTM's can take testosterone during play and during training, while born males can not? You know, after a man lifts weights his testosterone levels will be down, but with FTM's it's not affected by the activity resulting in them getting more boost from training then their born male competitors. Add to this that FTM's are taking enough testosterone to put them up at the top of the natural charts leaving them with a likely constant advantage over most of their competition.
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Why are you not arguing on the ground of FTM athletes here? Oh that's right, because in this instance we are discussing FTM transsexuals who are most likely taking testosterone blockers and female hormones that reduce muscle mass and encourage fat growth and less aggressive personalities.

Why is no one arguing about the categories in the Paralympics or how cyclists should be divided in competition by their natural haematocrit levels or by their metabolisms? I think it is a travesty that cyclists with natural advantages like these keep winning big sporting events. Naturally petite men should be banned from cycling large climbs because they have an unfair advantage and men with naturally more muscular physiques and the ability to generate short bursts of high power should be banned from sprinting. I am not a professional sports administrator and I care practically nothing about whatever arbitrary criteria that the professional bodies use to sell their sport. If she won within the rules, she won within the rules and I'm guessing that everyone that entered were working to the same rule book. Sports are by definition arbitrary in order to make them work as a business or leisure activity, it doesn't mean that we have to adopt those arbitrary rules in life.

If I had some evidence that people were actually concerned about the sport and not just making some inane political point off the back of an internet 'clickbait' story, I'd be more impressed.

Anyway, it seems that our resident 'anti-transsexual campaigner' has been talking to women again so, no doubt we will see a 'jane' character appearing in here soon.
 
William Rea said:
Why are you not arguing on the ground of FTM athletes here? Oh that's right, because in this instance we are discussing FTM transsexuals who are most likely taking testosterone blockers and female hormones that reduce muscle mass and encourage fat growth and less aggressive personalities.

Why is no one arguing about the categories in the Paralympics or how cyclists should be divided in competition by their natural haematocrit levels or by their metabolisms? I think it is a travesty that cyclists with natural advantages like these keep winning big sporting events. Naturally petite men should be banned from cycling large climbs because they have an unfair advantage and men with naturally more muscular physiques and the ability to generate short bursts of high power should be banned from sprinting. I am not a professional sports administrator and I care practically nothing about whatever arbitrary criteria that the professional bodies use to sell their sport. If she won within the rules, she won within the rules and I'm guessing that everyone that entered were working to the same rule book. Sports are by definition arbitrary in order to make them work as a business or leisure activity, it doesn't mean that we have to adopt those arbitrary rules in life.

If I had some evidence that people were actually concerned about the sport and not just making some inane political point off the back of an internet 'clickbait' story, I'd be more impressed.

Anyway, it seems that our resident 'anti-transsexual campaigner' has been talking to women again so, no doubt we will see a 'jane' character appearing in here soon.
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There is a difference between natural differences and ones brought on by drugs that not only boost performance, but are banned for the rest of the competition to use. Trying to pretend as if you can win this debate by bringing up natural differences is a bit idiotic. Having rules that are fair and equal treatment is important and something that sports are getting away from to appeal to transsexuals.
 
Henrin said:
There is a difference between natural differences and ones brought on by drugs that not only boost performance, but are banned for the rest of the competition to use. Trying to pretend as if you can win this debate by bringing up natural differences is a bit idiotic. Having rules that are fair and equal treatment is important and something that sports are getting away from to appeal to transsexuals.
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You brought up drugs, not me. I just pointed out the selective way that you were using that by focussing on FTM who would use hormones that promote muscle growth and aggression while ignoring the case in point in this thread which is a MTF who would most likely be using hormones that would promote fat growth and non-aggression and could possibly actually be taking drugs that block hormones like testosterone It's not my problem if you introduce something into the debate that is pretty much irrelevant.

It's not like calamity hasn't expressed a position that is against trans hormone use in other threads but, conveniently forgotten about it in here is it? I feel that a common theme is emerging in the posts of our 'anti-trans researchers' on DP.
 
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William Rea said:
Why are you not arguing on the ground of FTM athletes here? Oh that's right, because in this instance we are discussing FTM transsexuals who are most likely taking testosterone blockers and female hormones that reduce muscle mass and encourage fat growth and less aggressive personalities.

Why is no one arguing about the categories in the Paralympics or how cyclists should be divided in competition by their natural haematocrit levels or by their metabolisms? I think it is a travesty that cyclists with natural advantages like these keep winning big sporting events. Naturally petite men should be banned from cycling large climbs because they have an unfair advantage and men with naturally more muscular physiques and the ability to generate short bursts of high power should be banned from sprinting. I am not a professional sports administrator and I care practically nothing about whatever arbitrary criteria that the professional bodies use to sell their sport. If she won within the rules, she won within the rules and I'm guessing that everyone that entered were working to the same rule book. Sports are by definition arbitrary in order to make them work as a business or leisure activity, it doesn't mean that we have to adopt those arbitrary rules in life.

If I had some evidence that people were actually concerned about the sport and not just making some inane political point off the back of an internet 'clickbait' story, I'd be more impressed.

Anyway, it seems that our resident 'anti-transsexual campaigner' has been talking to women again so, no doubt we will see a 'jane' character appearing in here soon.
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Whatever happened to Jane?
 
William Rea said:
You brought up drugs, not me. I just pointed out the selective way that you were using that by focussing on FTM who would use hormones that promote muscle growth and aggression while ignoring the case in point in this thread which is a MTF who would most likely be using hormones that would promote fat growth and non-aggression and could possibly actually be taking drugs that block hormones like testosterone It's not my problem if you introduce something into the debate that is pretty much irrelevant.

It's not like calamity hasn't expressed a position that is against trans hormone use in other threads but, conveniently forgotten about it in here is it? I feel that a common theme is emerging in the posts of our 'anti-trans researchers' on DP.
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The issues dealing with MTF's in competition and FTM's in competition are different, so it shouldn't be shocking to you that the variables behind it are different. Also, it's not selective in the slightest since sports organizations commonly consider taking testosterone and estrogen blockers as cheating no matter if it is male competition or female competition involved. Since MTF's aren't taking the drugs in question there is clearly no grounds for my argument to apply to them, but since FTM's are in fact taking such drugs my argument applies to them.
 
2 years hormone therapy and post op... I say let her have at it.

Anything less than that is really unfair.
 
Renae said:
2 years hormone therapy and post op... I say let her have at it.

Anything less than that is really unfair.
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Does the physiology change that much that quick? I honestly do not know.
 
Renae said:
Yeah, it does. 2 years in march and I'm weak as hell. (just not yet post op)
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I bet you still have more physical strength than most women. Has a trans woman in any sport actually been beaten by a woman who's not trans?
 
Renae said:
2 years hormone therapy and post op... I say let her have at it.

Anything less than that is really unfair.
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It's unfair that women sports are not invaded by castrated men taking the wrong hormones? Ok?
 
If the people and sponsors running the event are fine with trans participants, why should I care?
 
WillyPete said:
If the people and sponsors running the event are fine with trans participants, why should I care?
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Well, if you happen to be a woman who trained her whole life to be the best female athlete she can be, it would sure suck if all of a sudden they let guys into the event just because they claim to be women.
 
X Factor said:
I bet you still have more physical strength than most women. Has a trans woman in any sport actually been beaten by a woman who's not trans?
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They are starting to pop up.
Here and there.

The biggest issue is that they are knocking out other would be winners.
A lot of student athletes are getting upset about it.
 
Women should be pissed about this.
 
WillyPete said:
If the people and sponsors running the event are fine with trans participants, why should I care?
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That's actually a good point, however, I could sure see a reason for participants or sponsors to be reluctant to speak out against it. That person would be bashed all to hell.
 
calamity said:
Well, if you happen to be a woman who trained her whole life to be the best female athlete she can be, it would sure suck if all of a sudden they let guys into the event just because they claim to be women.
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It's their event. They decide what constitutes a woman for the purposes of their bike race.

If someone doesn't like the rules they set for it they can appeal to the organization or sponsors, or both.

Do we have any actual participants complaining? I don't see any in the linked article.


X Factor said:
That's actually a good point, however, I could sure see a reason for participants or sponsors to be reluctant to speak out against it. That person would be bashed all to hell.
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If they don't like a shift in the culture surrounding their sport of choice or a specific event, that's really really sad for them.

That said, unless they were blindsided by a last minute rule change or somesuch, they are all willing participants. Sponsors don't need to make a scene to withdraw their support, if they feel strongly about it. No one is being compelled here.

I'm meh to the meh degree over here.
 
X Factor said:
I bet you still have more physical strength than most women. Has a trans woman in any sport actually been beaten by a woman who's not trans?
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I won't disagree there is an inherent difference
 
WillyPete said:
It's their event. They decide what constitutes a woman for the purposes of their bike race.

If someone doesn't like the rules they set for it they can appeal to the organization or sponsors, or both.

Do we have any actual participants complaining? I don't see any in the linked article.




If they don't like a shift in the culture surrounding their sport of choice or a specific event, that's really really sad for them.

That said, unless they were blindsided by a last minute rule change or somesuch, they are all willing participants. Sponsors don't need to make a scene to withdraw their support, if they feel strongly about it. No one is being compelled here.

I'm meh to the meh degree over here.
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If the folks bothered by it put on their own event barring transsexual partipants would you support that?
 
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