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"Respect for Women"

Re: "Respect for Women"

beefheart said:
It has nothing to do with a political stance. There isn't a "line"

Treat all people as equals, and then you won't be full of angst and messed up.

And they will treat you the same.
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When two people mash up together there is always a line.

It tends to move with time.
 
Re: "Respect for Women"

Wow. :shock:

Anybody who has had the "pleasure" of reading years of posts/threads from Gathomas has to see this thread as either the funniest damn thing they've read in a long time, or just outright hypocrisy from start to finish.
 
Re: "Respect for Women"

It's funny to see how all the "usual suspects" aren't even trying to address the arguments in the OP.

Just goes to show how little any of this has to do with "respect for women" as a generalized concept. Most of them neither know nor care what the phrase means. I'll wager that they've never even bothered to give it real thought.

They just know that it's an emotionally charged buzzword they can try to use as a blunt instrument against those they disagree with. They do so quite liberally. :roll:
 
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Re: "Respect for Women"

beefheart said:
And, it is not hard to undo that teaching. Unless you want to be an angry person all your life.

Its easy, treat others as you want them to treat you.
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I think Jesus suggested that.
 
Re: "Respect for Women"

Phys251 said:
You don't get to prove a negative. You must first prove that you have the authority to speak on this issue. That was a pretty lengthy OP, and I would like to know what your credentials are that let you to these conclusions.
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This is a debate forum, not a lecture forum.
 
Re: "Respect for Women"

American said:
Do I think lockerroom talk is good, no not really. Does it happen, you damn straight it does. And if you don't think women do it, you're kidding yourself. I've had women I know, tell me that it happens.

Charles Barkley gives his opinion on ?locker room talk? | Newsday
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Eh. I think it's pretty much harmless, on the whole. Granted, some guys do get sort of disrespectful with it - bragging about all the girls they've slept with, which ones were easy to screw, which ones weren't, and all the (generally, rather non-PC) ways one should or should not try to get in a girl's pants, and etca, etca. Those guys can be more than a bit douchey... But then again, it's not like their usual quarry is much better in that regard, sooo... :shrug:

You'll also occasionally run across some straight-up misogynists, who will be all like "F****ing bitches" this, or "Dumb c***s" that. Those guys legitimately are sort of hateful and creepy. Thankfully, however, they tend to be few and far between in my experience.

More often than not, however, it doesn't get much beyond the level of a couple guys just hanging out, simply discussing personal preferences and mutual experiences. Or, sometimes, girl watching, and alerting one's buddies when a fine looking "prospect" happens to come sauntering by so everyone can look. I frankly don't see a thing wrong with any that, just so long as you keep it reasonable (no cat calling, or other stupid crap, for example).

A simple expression of "Heeeelllloooo legs!," that only someone standing right next to you can even hear, never hurt anyone. :shrug:
 
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Re: "Respect for Women"

Northern Light said:
If you live from the heart and not from your momentary emotions or mental rules; if you live with compassion for all people; and if you see everyone as coming from the same place, fundamentally, then it should be a simple exercise in knowing how women should be treated.

They should be treated like any other human being -- with dignity, respect, compassion, and integrity.

This "othering" of women into another species with special rules is a sign of the problem, not the solution. Chivalry has never cured disrespect for women, it has only concealed it under social niceties to make societal culture feel more civilized.

If you're in your heart then you don't have to try to be nice, you just are.

It's the difference between boy psychology and man psychology. Some adult males never make the transition.
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Gotta be honest with you. I'm frankly not sure what this is even supposed to mean. Act "from the heart," but not from "momentary emotions?" Huh?

Near as I can figure, you're saying that one should do what "feels right." Fair enough.

However, the whole reason this thread exists is the first place is because so many people have different opinions concerning what that actually means in practical reality.
 
Re: "Respect for Women"

Gathomas88 said:
Near as I can figure, you're saying that one should do what "feels right." Fair enough.
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Nope.

If you're in your mind and not your heart, what I said will make zero sense to you.

The problem with our modern society in general is that people are looking for outside rules to govern behavior, but if humans could live from the heart, the "right thing" would be obvious for everyone, regardless of race or creed.

It's not an opinion. Every person has this capacity, and when they use it they all relate by the same virtues.
 
Re: "Respect for Women"

Absentglare said:
? Sure, just like how a potato "IS NOT" a jet airplane.

This is pretty confused. You just mentioned women having autonomy, and here you are claiming that pro-choice "IS NOT" respect for women.

Feminism, in fact, does have considerable overlap with respect for women. In fact, a rejection of feminism (in general) is an implicit rejection of respect for women.

Hillary Clinton is yet another third, distinct thing. Why did you garble these together ? No, supporting Hillary is not a requirement for respecting women, but some degree of respect for women is a requirement for supporting Hillary.

And yes, people who fight for paid maternity leave, and having birth control included on health insurance, and given women the freedom to choose- those people are paying more respect for women then their opponents. You do understand how those issues impact women, i hope ?
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Lol. This whole portion of your response is "pretty confused," if we're being honest. First you claim that you don't believe that "respect for women" and political Leftism are inherently linked, and then you turn right around and rationalize for us all the reasons why, "yes," you pretty much do believe they are linked.

In any case, no. Believing that women should be entitled to either "free stuff" (really, simply things the government took money from someone else to pay for), the supposed "right" to kill their unborn children, or support as political candidates, just because they happen to be women, has nothing at all to do with "respect for women" as a generalized concept. Again, all of these things are subjective.

The claim that the failure to support any of these causes was in any way indicative of "misogyny," would only be valid if someone thought men were deserving of certain benefits in some way women are not. I have never argued any such thing.

Absentglare said:
Of course not, that is DISrespectful.
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"Of course not," what? Your meaning here is unclear.

"Of course not" you can't criticize or complain about female behavior because "that is disrespectful?"

Or...

"Of course not." You CAN criticize and complain about female behavior, because acting like women are exempt "is disrespectful?"

If it's the former, I restate my original position. Women are not exempt from criticism any more than men are.

If it's the latter, I'd say you're being dishonest. You might currently be paying lip service to the concept of treating both groups equally in this regard. In practice, however, I have observed no such thing; either from you, or the other "feminist men" on this board.

Generally speaking, men receive the brunt of most (or even ALL) of the criticism from your side of the aisle, and people start getting all pissy and offended the moment anything at all is said with regards to female faults or behavior. At best, there might be a hand-wavy acknowledgment of female faults, which really serves more as a dismissal meant to change the subject.

However, that is really about it.

Yes, honesty is a form of respect. I'm starting to get the impression that "respect" is what you're having trouble with, and i'm unclear why women are being dragged into it.
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Again, your theory isn't matching actual observed practice here.

Female domination is actually in conflict with feminism.
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Again, "theory vs practice." Whenever we have a thread dealing with male centric issues around here, Left-leaning posters simply mock the OP, and claim that men either need to "stop whining," or "deserve it" in some fashion, because women supposedly "have it worse."

We had a thread regarding the treatment of young boys in the public educational system not too long ago where EXACTLY what I described happened.

Why are you suggesting that rape is overstated, out of nowhere ? It sounds like you're trying to oversimplify this in order to excuse making excuses for rape.
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Read my OP. Acceptance of the "Rape Culture" mythos is not required to have "respect for women." Many people like to claim otherwise, and they are wrong.

For the most part, they can.
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False. With regard to physical strength, stamina, and resiliency, men simply outperform women.

There is some overlap, yes. However, it is only really at the very top of the female spectrum, and the bottom of the male spectrum. It is quite small.
 
Re: "Respect for Women"

Northern Light said:
Nope.

If you're in your mind and not your heart, what I said will make zero sense to you.

The problem with our modern society in general is that people are looking for outside rules to govern behavior, but if humans could live from the heart, the "right thing" would be obvious for everyone, regardless of race or creed.

It's not an opinion. Every person has this capacity, and when they use it they all relate by the same virtues.
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If people go with their hearts I bet they would treat women special, not equally. Just sayin'.
 
Re: "Respect for Women"

Northern Light said:
Nope.

If you're in your mind and not your heart, what I said will make zero sense to you.

The problem with our modern society in general is that people are looking for outside rules to govern behavior, but if humans could live from the heart, the "right thing" would be obvious for everyone, regardless of race or creed.

It's not an opinion. Every person has this capacity, and when they use it they all relate by the same virtues.
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You realize the idea of "heart" doesn't actually mean anything on an objective basis, correct? :roll:

By nature, you're speaking of the subjective here.
 
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Phys251 said:
Not absolute authority, no. But some have it more than others. That's what I'm trying to guide Gathomas to understand.
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Rather than trying to "guide Gathomas to understand" why don't you just make your case plainly?

Your convoluted, "I know something you don't know", approach is kind of tiresome.

Unless Gathomas has granted you authority to mentor him, and it's pretty apparent he hasn't, or unless you are a recognized authority on the topic, and I haven't seen you post any credentials here which would lead anyone to believe you are, you're really just another mope with a different opinion.

So state your opinion.
 
Re: "Respect for Women"

Gathomas88 said:
You realize the idea of "heart" doesn't actually mean anything on an objective basis, correct? :roll:
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There's no point in arguing really. You're at where you're at. One day you will probably understand in your own life -- hopefully.

Cheers. :)
 
soot said:
Rather than trying to "guide Gathomas to understand" why don't you just make your case plainly?

Your convoluted, "I know something you don't know", approach is kind of tiresome.

Unless Gathomas has granted you authority to mentor him, and it's pretty apparent he hasn't, or unless you are a recognized authority on the topic, and I haven't seen you post any credentials here which would lead anyone to believe you are, you're really just another mope with a different opinion.

So state your opinion.
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And who gave you the authority to tell me how to discuss issues? All I'm doing, to use some debating verbage, is taking the negative position against Gathomas's affirmative position. The snippy responses I have received for simply doing that are telling, though predictable. (I leave it as an exercise to you to figure out why.)
 
Re: "Respect for Women"

Gathomas88 said:
Eh. I think it's pretty much harmless, on the whole. Granted, some guys do get sort of disrespectful with it - bragging about all the girls they've slept with, which ones were easy to screw, which ones weren't, and all the (generally, rather non-PC) ways one should or should not try to get in a girl's pants, and etca, etca. Those guys can be more than a bit douchey... But then again, it's not like their usual quarry is much better in that regard, sooo... :shrug:

You'll also occasionally run across some straight-up misogynists, who will be all like "F****ing bitches" this, or "Dumb c***s" that. Those guys legitimately are sort of hateful and creepy. Thankfully, however, they tend to be few and far between in my experience.

More often than not, however, it doesn't get much beyond the level of a couple guys just hanging out, simply discussing personal preferences and mutual experiences. Or, sometimes, girl watching, and alerting one's buddies when a fine looking "prospect" happens to come sauntering by so everyone can look. I frankly don't see a thing wrong with any that, just so long as you keep it reasonable (no cat calling, or other stupid crap, for example).

A simple expression of "Heeeelllloooo legs!," that only someone standing right next to you can even hear, never hurt anyone. :shrug:
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Have you asked a random sample of women if they would agree with the highlighted statement?
 
Re: "Respect for Women"

Phys251 said:
Have you asked a random sample of women if they would agree with the highlighted statement?
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Maybe he should conduct a poll?
 
Re: "Respect for Women"

Phys251 said:
Have you asked a random sample of women if they would agree with the highlighted statement?
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Do you honestly imagine that many women do not do the same thing to men? :roll:
 
Re: "Respect for Women"

Phys251 said:
Have you asked a random sample of women if they would agree with the highlighted statement?
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I love when I'm correct about the intent of someones games. Then again, I'm usually right about those things since I'm pretty good at seeing through people.
 
Re: "Respect for Women"

Gathomas88 said:
Do you honestly imagine that many women do not do the same thing to men? :roll:
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You are aware that women are more likely to be judged based on appearance than men are, right?
 
Re: "Respect for Women"

Phys251 said:
You are aware that women are more likely to be judged based on appearance than men are, right?
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:lol:
 
Re: "Respect for Women"

Phys251 said:
You are aware that women are more likely to be judged based on appearance than men are, right?
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Is that true? I don't know if it is.
 
Re: "Respect for Women"

Phys251 said:
You are aware that women are more likely to be judged based on appearance than men are, right?
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And???

What on Earth does that have to do with anything?
 
Re: "Respect for Women"

Henrin said:
I love when I'm correct about the intent of someones games. Then again, I'm usually right about those things since I'm pretty good at seeing through people.
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Asking for a random sample of opinions is game-playing? Well, that's a new one.

Henrin said:
:lol:
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The truth can hurt.
 
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