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Same-sex... divorces!

Deuce said:
True. But you also said this:



The only way this makes sense is if you think the government contract impacts personal relationships somehow. Nobody else thinks that. The government isn't controlling my personal relationship.
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Are you married? Do you have a marriage license? Would you and your wife be together, raising a family, sharing everything without the marriage license? Your answers to those questions determine whether or not the marriage license is a condition of your relationship. If you didn't bother with the government's piece of paper, good for you and more power to you. If you lined up and paid money to the government for the privilege of marrying, then yes, the government does have some control over your relationship. If you're gay and in a state where SSM is still illegal, then yes, the government does have some control over the relationship you want.
 
CanadaJohn said:
I wonder how some people function in society today without some higher power dictating their every move.
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I doubt many of them want to. The big government types are usually pretty sheepish and collectivist minded. Regardless of what they might think that usually means a lower IQ.
 
Deuce said:
True. But you also said this:



The only way this makes sense is if you think the government contract impacts personal relationships somehow. Nobody else thinks that. The government isn't controlling my personal relationship.
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So can you change any term of the contract you want?
 
CanadaJohn said:
Are you married? Do you have a marriage license? Would you and your wife be together, raising a family, sharing everything without the marriage license? Your answers to those questions determine whether or not the marriage license is a condition of your relationship. If you didn't bother with the government's piece of paper, good for you and more power to you. If you lined up and paid money to the government for the privilege of marrying, then yes, the government does have some control over your relationship. If you're gay and in a state where SSM is still illegal, then yes, the government does have some control over the relationship you want.
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Interesting comment. I got married to my current husband because of some of the benefits of marriage - my husband was not able to work anymore, so I was able to cover him and his kids on my health insurance by marrying. I was also selling my house, so more of the profit was tax free because I was married. We had been together for 7 years at that point; so it wasn't about a relationship at that point. Some other things were easier because we were officially married as well.

However, there have been a couple times since then where we might have split up if it weren't for the fact divorces cost so much.... we've gotten through those times, so maybe the govt actually helped my relationship.

hard to telll
 
CanadaJohn said:
Are you married? Do you have a marriage license? Would you and your wife be together, raising a family, sharing everything without the marriage license? Your answers to those questions determine whether or not the marriage license is a condition of your relationship. If you didn't bother with the government's piece of paper, good for you and more power to you. If you lined up and paid money to the government for the privilege of marrying, then yes, the government does have some control over your relationship. If you're gay and in a state where SSM is still illegal, then yes, the government does have some control over the relationship you want.
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Ask yourself this, does your family recognize your marriage or will/have they, if you aren't married now? If yes, does that mean your family has a say in your relationship, your marriage by recognizing it? In reality, the government does not have any actual say in a relationship just by recognizing that relationship.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
At least we now know why you're so hate-filled towards homosexuals. They ruined your marriage! Holy cow! I'm sorry that happened to you, but it sounds like a rather weak marriage to begin with. I've been married 8 years now and we're stronger than ever. Absolutely nothing anyone on the planet has done in their marriages has effected mine even a little bit.

I hope you get your life sorted out and are able to find someone new. Good luck on the search.

(Also, if anybody trashed the institution of marriage it was heterosexual TV shows like the Bachelor.)
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I agree, RA. If your marriage is strong enough, nothing is going to trash it.
 
paddymcdougall said:
Interesting comment. I got married to my current husband because of some of the benefits of marriage - my husband was not able to work anymore, so I was able to cover him and his kids on my health insurance by marrying. I was also selling my house, so more of the profit was tax free because I was married. We had been together for 7 years at that point; so it wasn't about a relationship at that point. Some other things were easier because we were officially married as well.

However, there have been a couple times since then where we might have split up if it weren't for the fact divorces cost so much.... we've gotten through those times, so maybe the govt actually helped my relationship.

hard to telll
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More power to you for doing what served your personal lives best. But I'm glad you're in effect admitting that your marriage was one of financial convenience or benefit and had the government not been offering those benefits to holding the piece of paper, you may not have married or stayed together.

You've made my point for me. The benefits you've outlined shouldn't be conditional on holding a government issued marriage license.
 
roguenuke said:
Ask yourself this, does your family recognize your marriage or will/have they, if you aren't married now? If yes, does that mean your family has a say in your relationship, your marriage by recognizing it? In reality, the government does not have any actual say in a relationship just by recognizing that relationship.
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Paddymcdougall's comments in post #154 essentially belie what you've been saying.
 
CanadaJohn said:
More power to you for doing what served your personal lives best. But I'm glad you're in effect admitting that your marriage was one of financial convenience or benefit and had the government not been offering those benefits to holding the piece of paper, you may not have married or stayed together.

You've made my point for me. The benefits you've outlined shouldn't be conditional on holding a government issued marriage license.
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but one way or another, you would have to "prove" to the govt that you are in a committed relationship to get those benefits. Marriage is an easy way to do it. But doesn't really matter what you call it; if you want the govt to give benefits to a couple, there has to be a way for that couple to register their relationship
 
paddymcdougall said:
but one way or another, you would have to "prove" to the govt that you are in a committed relationship to get those benefits. Marriage is an easy way to do it. But doesn't really matter what you call it; if you want the govt to give benefits to a couple, there has to be a way for that couple to register their relationship
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See, now we're getting somewhere. As I've said many times, I don't want the government picking winners (married couples) and losers (single people, widows/widowers) and giving them tax and other benefits. True equality would dictate that every individual, regardless of personal circumstances or relationships, should be entitled to the same tax and other benefits as every other individual. There's nothing magical about being married in the 21st century. 49% of American adults aren't married and that number is growing. Soon to be half of the American adult population will be discriminated against based on marital status.

You want to get legally married for any number of reasons, more power to you - government tax and benefit special treatment shouldn't be one of those reasons. If it wasn't, there would be no war for or against SSM or any other type of marriage.
 
CanadaJohn said:
See, now we're getting somewhere. As I've said many times, I don't want the government picking winners (married couples) and losers (single people, widows/widowers) and giving them tax and other benefits. True equality would dictate that every individual, regardless of personal circumstances or relationships, should be entitled to the same tax and other benefits as every other individual. There's nothing magical about being married in the 21st century. 49% of American adults aren't married and that number is growing. Soon to be half of the American adult population will be discriminated against based on marital status.

You want to get legally married for any number of reasons, more power to you - government tax and benefit special treatment shouldn't be one of those reasons. If it wasn't, there would be no war for or against SSM or any other type of marriage.
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Yes there would still be that war because you would still have people not recognizing relationships but more ways.

And marriage benefits society. Agreeing in writing to become someone's legally closest kin hugely benefits society, giving us someone who voluntarily chooses to take on certain responsibilities for that person.

But marriage helps couples without being a burden on society. It allows couples to claim their children together. It allows couples to claim their joint property together. You can complain about marriage and taxes and benefits all you like, but you haven't shown any actual evidence or proof that removing government from marriage would actually benefit anyone. It is a lot more complicated than "they get tax breaks".
 
roguenuke said:
Yes there would still be that war because you would still have people not recognizing relationships but more ways.

And marriage benefits society. Agreeing in writing to become someone's legally closest kin hugely benefits society, giving us someone who voluntarily chooses to take on certain responsibilities for that person.

But marriage helps couples without being a burden on society. It allows couples to claim their children together. It allows couples to claim their joint property together. You can complain about marriage and taxes and benefits all you like, but you haven't shown any actual evidence or proof that removing government from marriage would actually benefit anyone. It is a lot more complicated than "they get tax breaks".
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Who's arguing against marriage? Not me. Nothing you've said above requires the government to sanction your marriage. You complain about other people not recognizing your marriage but the fact is that most gay people who got married in civil ceremonies where they committed to each other had that union recognized by their friends and families - it was the government that didn't recognize it because they didn't have the government piece of paper and the government refused to sanction it - and because the government discriminated, others felt they had the government's okay to discriminate as well.

Keep talking and you may eventually come around to the fact that all problems related to marriage find their root cause in government involvement. You're doing a great job of proving my point each time you post.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Who's arguing against marriage? Not me. Nothing you've said above requires the government to sanction your marriage. You complain about other people not recognizing your marriage but the fact is that most gay people who got married in civil ceremonies where they committed to each other had that union recognized by their friends and families - it was the government that didn't recognize it because they didn't have the government piece of paper and the government refused to sanction it - and because the government discriminated, others felt they had the government's okay to discriminate as well.

Keep talking and you may eventually come around to the fact that all problems related to marriage find their root cause in government involvement. You're doing a great job of proving my point each time you post.
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No they aren't. Marriage problems come from the people in the marriage, not the government. Any social problems are from those others in society who don't want to recognize those relationships, those marriages.

You really are not making any sense at all. You have not shown how the government, or employers, or courts, or society in general would be more likely or certainly required more to recognize a private contract than they would be the marriage license.
 
roguenuke said:
No they aren't. Marriage problems come from the people in the marriage, not the government. Any social problems are from those others in society who don't want to recognize those relationships, those marriages.

You really are not making any sense at all. You have not shown how the government, or employers, or courts, or society in general would be more likely or certainly required more to recognize a private contract than they would be the marriage license.
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You know, reading your posts is like having to listen to a Jehovah's Witness mantra at the airport - it's the same drone over and over again, never addresses nor recognizes anything said that is counter to your beliefs and just drones on. "Government marriage good" "Government marriage good" "Government marriage good".

All you need is a nice robe and a tambourine.

I've humour you enough - have fun and enjoy your day.
 
CanadaJohn said:
You know, reading your posts is like having to listen to a Jehovah's Witness mantra at the airport - it's the same drone over and over again, never addresses nor recognizes anything said that is counter to your beliefs and just drones on. "Government marriage good" "Government marriage good" "Government marriage good".

All you need is a nice robe and a tambourine.

I've humour you enough - have fun and enjoy your day.
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So instead of addressing anything I said, instead you attempt another insult?

You nor anyone else has been able to provide an actual reason why government shouldn't be involved in marriage or marriage recognition. You have consistently said basically that you think that they should get out, that you think it would be more fair or easier if the government weren't involved, yet can't give reasons why beyond "taxes", which could easily change if the people want to change the tax code. Everything else so far sounds more like a conspiracy theory about government controlling people's lives through their marriages.
 
WCH said:
Not only stole it, they trashed it.
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How so? More than the multiple divorcees, adulterers and wife beaters and child abusers and spouse killers? How?
 
WCH said:
For someone to move in with a stranger right off the bat IS all about the sex.
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No, women esp. are often looking for something besides sex.

That's just plain ignorance on your part. Unfortunately, women tend to be raised to believe they 'need' someone else, our society still plants this in women's minds from the time they are born...that if they are alone, they are less. And women turn to other women all the time for support for their needs and problems. They look for more than just sex.
 
WCH said:
I don't care for either.
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And yet, altho the Bible said you shouldnt divorce, the law said you could...so you did.

Huh. You did what you wanted, despite God's Word. But are against gays being allowed the same choices (marriage being one of them)?

Fortunately, more and more, the laws says they can. You might want to "remove that log from thine own eye".....
 
Lursa said:
And yet, altho the Bible said you shouldnt divorce, the law said you could...so you did.

Huh. You did what you wanted, despite God's Word. But are against gays being allowed the same choices (marriage being one of them)?

Fortunately, more and more, the laws says they can. You might want to "remove that log from thine own eye".....
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Jesus then answers, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery" (Matthew 19:7-9).

I caught my first Wife in bed with another.
 
WCH said:
Jesus then answers, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery" (Matthew 19:7-9).
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Driving your wife to have sex with another man (was it a man or a woman?) is also immoral and we only have one side of the story.
 
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