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A Christian family, a gay son – and a Wichita father’s change of heart

Sykes said:
Sarcastic much?

What do you think would be a child's reaction to being rejected by their parent. Seriously.
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Well it depends.

I find it hard to believe that if someone hasn't come out by 15-16, they don't have a good idea how the parents will react. I mean it's who you're living with and odds are they've been yelling "fag" at the tv and ranting about "gay agenda" for quite some time.

Suicide or serious depression in this circumstance is often as much to do with teenage impulsiveness, perceived helplessness, and rejection by others in their life as well (friends, classmates, teammates, extended family, so on)

The ones who are rejected at 12-13 are definitely at risk though.

But it is difficult even if 18 and you've moved out, don't get me wrong. Holidays especially
 
I think the real moral of this story is that people can make better choices than the ones laid out in bronze age myths. We're a lot smarter, kinder, more loving, and more moral than anyone who lived back then was. We know better than to stop loving our children over something like sexuality. We know there's no reason to condemn gays, and no reason that a heterosexual person is any different from a homosexual person, or a bisexual, or an omnisexual, or an asexual, or a transsexual, or whatever. Everyone is good if they're kind to their fellow humans and not hurting anyone.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Unnatural. Hmmm... you SURE you want to use that word?
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For a mother to abandon her child over a document that is not only man-made but based on incidents that never occurred? Pretty sure

natural: "existing in or caused by nature; not made or caused by humankind."
unnatural: "lacking human qualities or sympathies; monstrous"
(2) "at variance with what is normal or to be expected"
(3) "contrary to the laws or course of nature. - (which are) existing independently of human activities."


Now if she were to abandon it over some physical defect as often happens in nature...then you're correct
 
chromium said:
For a mother to abandon her child over a document that is not only man-made but based on incidents that never occurred? Pretty sure

natural: "existing in or caused by nature; not made or caused by humankind."
unnatural: "lacking human qualities or sympathies; monstrous"
(2) "at variance with what is normal or to be expected"
(3) "contrary to the laws or course of nature. - (which are) existing independently of human activities."


Now if she were to abandon it over some physical defect as often happens in nature...then you're correct
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When anti-gay posters claim that homosexuality is unnatural, using the definition that "if it occurs in nature, it's natural" works and is correct. In this case, abandoning your child is also natural, as it occurs in nature. Things like that have occurred in societies for centuries.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
When anti-gay posters claim that homosexuality is unnatural, using the definition that "if it occurs in nature, it's natural" works and is correct. In this case, abandoning your child is also natural, as it occurs in nature. Things like that have occurred in societies for centuries.
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Yes but not for that particular reason. Identify a single animal species that abandons its young for being homosexual and/or for "breaking god's commandments" or w/e
 
chromium said:
Yes but not for that particular reason. Identify a single animal species that abandons its young for being homosexual and/or for "breaking god's commandments" or w/e
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The reason is not really relevant. It exist in nature and has for centuries.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Now, now, Logicman. Do you REALLY want to engage with me? It's been a while since I've pointed out your lack of education on matters such as these.

As far as morality goes, we have proof that it is relative. Your morality is different from mine, yet we both believe in God and, read the bible, and follow the teachings of our religions.

That was pretty good. One post and your entire position is destroyed.
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So, your moral RELATIVISM is ABSOLUTELY true! Congratulations on your twisted logic!
 
CLAX1911 said:
No, homosexuality is not a sin. I love it when you don't state the version of the bible you use, that just kicks the legs out from under your argument. First off, with the Leviticus quotes, that is ****ty translation. It acutely actually doesn't say that in older languages. I have gone over that with you before.

The Romans quote hs nothing to do with homosexuality. Homosexuals never exchanged natural relations for the opposite sex because their nature is to live people of the same, sex.

The Corinthians quote, again bad translation. The word that the word "homosexual" replaced was sodomite. A sodomite is somebody who commits the sin that Sodomwas destroyed for, which was sexual assault. Not homosexuality. Sorry. same goes for Timothy.

Jude references Sodom. But again the sexual immorality and perversion was never once listed as homosexual sex. It was described as rape, incest, and pedophilia in the bible. So again sorry.

There was one marriage of two men, Jonathan and David.

You call yourself a Christian. Hmph.
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What absolute nonsense.

The fact is you're an admitted gay and your reason is biased by your inclinations.
 
Logicman said:
What absolute nonsense.

The fact is you're an admitted gay and your reason is biased by your inclinations.
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His being gay in no way biases his logic. The logic is still intact, completely. Just because you refuse to accept it, does not make it biased or illogical at all.

I'm not gay, and I absolutely agree with everything he has stated there.

Now, it could easily be claimed that your rejection of his logic is due to your personal bias based on your particular religious beliefs. Many people are resistant to change, particularly when that change involves their religious beliefs and whether or not their actions really will help or harm them in the eyes of the deity/higher power they believe in. This resistance is so strong, that many people believe things absolutely contradicted by science simply because the Bible or their religious texts/rules/stories say different or even just what they have been taught within their particular religious group says differently, including evolution, creation of the Earth, creation of the universe, creation of man, various miracles, the story of Sodom, and many more.
 
roguenuke said:
His being gay in no way biases his logic. The logic is still intact, completely. Just because you refuse to accept it, does not make it biased or illogical at all.
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Sure it biases his logic. Most gays don't want to admit gay sex is a sin, according to the Bible. Others I've debated it in the past admit the Bible says it's a sin but then they dismiss the Bible.

roguenuke said:
I'm not gay, and I absolutely agree with everything he has stated there.
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I'm not gay and I've posted the evidence / scriptures that back up my case that gay sex is a sin and an abomination.

You guys might want to read "Responding to Pro-Gay Theology" to see why your pro-gay arguments fail.

Responding to Pro-Gay Theology, Part III
 
I hate to say this, but often times when I listen to Christians speaking of God....he seems like a small picture micromanager. :(

(not speaking to one poster, just generally speaking)
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
As far as morality goes, we have proof that it is relative. Your morality is different from mine, yet we both believe in God and, read the bible, and follow the teachings of our religions.
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It's also in a constant state of change, like every other conceivable phenomenon.
 
Sykes said:
A Christian family, a gay son – and a Wichita father’s change of heart | Wichita Eagle

Very good read. I've yet to see a christian who could explain why shellfish and divorce are okay, but homosexuality is not.



If one of my daughters turned out to be gay, it would be the same in my mind as if she turned out to be left-handed. I would only hope that she wasn't exposed to too much hate from ignorant assholes. That's about it.
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You should see what it'd be like in my mind if one of your daughters was gay.

Better yet, if two were.
 
year2late said:
I hate to say this, but often times when I listen to Christians speaking of God....he seems like a small picture micromanager. :(

(not speaking to one poster, just generally speaking)
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He seems to have a real persecution complex huh. Now we know what it means "made in his image."
 
Logicman said:
So, your moral RELATIVISM is ABSOLUTELY true! Congratulations on your twisted logic!
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You don't seem to understand the difference between a specific application and a general application. This does not surprise me.
 
Logicman said:
What absolute nonsense.

The fact is you're an admitted gay and your reason is biased by your inclinations.
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What absolute nonsense. The fact is that you are a lying anti-gay propagandist and you are biased by your beliefs.

Oh, and everything he posted was accurate. You've been schooled on this several times before. Your denial is also related to your biased belief system.
 
Logicman said:
Sure it biases his logic. Most gays don't want to admit gay sex is a sin, according to the Bible. Others I've debated it in the past admit the Bible says it's a sin but then they dismiss the Bible.
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No one dismisses the bible. The educate you on the bible. You just refuse to be educated.

I'm not gay and I've posted the evidence / scriptures that back up my case that gay sex is a sin and an abomination.
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And you've been proven wrong each time you've tried.

You guys might want to read "Responding to Pro-Gay Theology" to see why your pro-gay arguments fail.

Responding to Pro-Gay Theology, Part III
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I see nothing there that I haven't destroyed countless times with actual translations from ancient Hebrew, and accurate interpretations in context. Nothing in your link that isn't just anti-gay propaganda and misinformation. Like you always post.
 
Sykes said:
A Christian family, a gay son – and a Wichita father’s change of heart | Wichita Eagle

Very good read. I've yet to see a christian who could explain why shellfish and divorce are okay, but homosexuality is not.


If one of my daughters turned out to be gay, it would be the same in my mind as if she turned out to be left-handed. I would only hope that she wasn't exposed to too much hate from ignorant assholes. That's about it.
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It's VERY easy, shellfish were part of the mosaic Law, specifically for Jews, which gentile CHristians don't have to hold to.

Homosexuality continues to be part of Christian ethics in the New testament, as it's not just ritual Law, but a principle of marriage (re-enforced by Paul),

Divorce is ONLY ok (according to Jesus in Matthew) if there is infidelity, otherwise it's a sin.
 
RGacky3 said:
It's VERY easy, shellfish were part of the mosaic Law, specifically for Jews, which gentile CHristians don't have to hold to.

Homosexuality continues to be part of Christian ethics in the New testament, as it's not just ritual Law, but a principle of marriage (re-enforced by Paul),

Divorce is ONLY ok (according to Jesus in Matthew) if there is infidelity, otherwise it's a sin.
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Incorrect, the bible. said nothing about homosexuality. See post 75, I am not going through that again.
 
Logicman said:
Sure it biases his logic. Most gays don't want to admit gay sex is a sin, according to the Bible. Others I've debated it in the past admit the Bible says it's a sin but then they dismiss the Bible.
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The bible says nothing of the sort. No matter how much you insist it will never say what you want it to. See post 75.



I'm not gay and I've posted the evidence / scriptures that back up my case that gay sex is a sin and an abomination.
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no such scriptures exist, so no you didn't post any.

You guys might want to read "Responding to Pro-Gay Theology" to see why your pro-gay arguments fail.

Responding to Pro-Gay Theology, Part III
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All politically motivated theology is flawed.
 
CLAX1911 said:
No, homosexuality is not a sin. I love it when you don't state the version of the bible you use, that just kicks the legs out from under your argument. First off, with the Leviticus quotes, that is ****ty translation. It acutely actually doesn't say that in older languages. I have gone over that with you before.

The Romans quote hs nothing to do with homosexuality. Homosexuals never exchanged natural relations for the opposite sex because their nature is to live people of the same, sex.

The Corinthians quote, again bad translation. The word that the word "homosexual" replaced was sodomite. A sodomite is somebody who commits the sin that Sodomwas destroyed for, which was sexual assault. Not homosexuality. Sorry. same goes for Timothy.

Jude references Sodom. But again the sexual immorality and perversion was never once listed as homosexual sex. It was described as rape, incest, and pedophilia in the bible. So again sorry.

There was one marriage of two men, Jonathan and David.

You call yourself a Christian. Hmph.
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Somehow, I missed this earlier. Thank you.
 
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