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Is health insurance REALLY necessary?

noonereal said:
This is insanity. God forbid one of your loved ones gets seriously ill.

IMHO, you are not thinking this through and it's puts your family members at risk.
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Medical City Dallas offers many forms of financial relief for patients without healthcare insurance (the "uninsured") needing emergent or non-elective services.
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Plan 1: Patient Financial Resource | Medical City Dallas

Plan 2: Utilize their entitlement to care under Brazilian law. I'm the only non-citizen of Brazil in my family.
 
Also, my out of pocket payment to my primary care provider went from $90 to $72 when I lost my health insurance.
 
Superfly said:
Folks aren’t “willing to pay” for the exhorbitant prices that ERs charge. They either have insurance that pays the prices (and then pass the cost on to us in the form of higher premiums) or people stiff the system (as the OP has stated). Some set up payment arrangements, but who can set up a payment arrangement for $50,000 to have a baby?

My husband had a heart attack. His bill was $100,000. Most families would not be able to afford this kind of catastrophic bill without insurance or bankruptcy.

As far as my moving - I am fortunate to be covered by TRICARE Prime for the rest of my life. However, I am not speaking for me. I am speaking for millions of others who are not as fortunate.
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Where do you get $50K ?

It does however make sense to have all arrangements in place 5 months in advance if possible.

Medical City Dallas:

OBSTETRICS - C-Section Delivery of a Newborn:Delivery of single live-born infant newborn through an abdominal incision (Cesarean section). $2,414 - $3,002 3 - 4 Day(s)
OBSTETRICS - Normal Vaginal Delivery of a Newborn - Mother's Stay:Delivery requiring minimal or no assistance of a full term, single live-born infant newborn. $1,730 - $2,296 2 - 3 Day(s)
OBSTETRICS - Single Liveborn Born in Hospital by Cesarean Section - Baby's Stay:Newborn delivered by cesarean section. $761 - $1,112 3 - 4 Day(s)
OBSTETRICS - Single Liveborn Born in Hospital by Vaginal Delivery - Baby's Stay:Newborn delivered vaginally. $537 - $695 2 Day(s)
 
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SDET said:
Where do you get $50K ?

It does however make sense to have all arrangements in place 5 months in advance if possible.

Medical City Dallas:

OBSTETRICS - C-Section Delivery of a Newborn:Delivery of single live-born infant newborn through an abdominal incision (Cesarean section). $2,414 - $3,002 3 - 4 Day(s)
OBSTETRICS - Normal Vaginal Delivery of a Newborn - Mother's Stay:Delivery requiring minimal or no assistance of a full term, single live-born infant newborn. $1,730 - $2,296 2 - 3 Day(s)
OBSTETRICS - Single Liveborn Born in Hospital by Cesarean Section - Baby's Stay:Newborn delivered by cesarean section. $761 - $1,112 3 - 4 Day(s)
OBSTETRICS - Single Liveborn Born in Hospital by Vaginal Delivery - Baby's Stay:Newborn delivered vaginally. $537 - $695 2 Day(s)
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The reason the top of that page says "Medical City Dallas offers many forms of financial relief for patients without healthcare insurance (the "uninsured") needing emergent or non-elective services" is because this is indigent care being priced below cost.

I can't count the number times I've seen the brilliant observation "If I go uninsured, I could potentially get care priced below cost (with the remainder financed by others), ergo everyone should go uninsured!"
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
I've noticed that a lot of the most staunch conservatives on this board have some kind of loophole that they live with or live under. Either they're on some kind of disability or SSDI, or they're broke, or they're retired and on Social Security and Medicare.

I don't wish to judge but when you're in as deep as that, is it really honest to be so anti-government and so hostile to the concept of the very benefits you yourself have earned, or even lucked into?
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PirateMk1 said:
Oh my god somebody with a sensible plan.
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The problem with direct pay is hospitalization. If you want modern hospital services it must by nature be prohibitively expensive to pay for out of pocket for most American wage earners. Trauma centers, operating theaters, radiology, intensive care units all require highly expensive equipment with highly trained and highly paid staff. There is no way that can be reduced in cost to affordable levels. It is what it is. And of course, hospitalization, when needed, cannot be avoided. A secondary problem is that by the time one needs the hospital, it's often too late and unnecessary if better primary care was provided. Good primary care is essential and if you choose to avoid a doctor visit to avoid the $125 office visit then you may well have to be content with dying to avoid the hospital bill.
 
chuckiechan said:
Why is your family premium so high?
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Mine is higher than that. That's just how much insurance costs these days unless it is subsidized by your employer or by the Obamacare subsidies.
 
Quag said:
So basically you are betting on living a healthy life until you die, odds are against you
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Only until he is 65 when medicare kicks in. Odds are probably pretty good when compared to the cost of insurance. The $18k a year that he would save on insurance, plus whatever deductibles and copays he would have to pay, will straight out purchase a lot of healthcare. Most healthcare facilities will offer up to a 30% discount for non-insured.
 
manofknowledge said:
So basically you plan to steal from your health care providers and the government by not paying your bills.
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He didn't say that. The $18k a year that he saves by not having insurance, plus deductibles and copays will pay for a lot of healthcare. Those without health insurance often shop very wisely for healthcare, and self ration depending on what they can or can not afford. There are also lenders who will finance medical procedures (aka CareCredit). Worst comes to worst and something catastrophic happens, he still gets treated and pays off the bill the best he can, even if it takes years.
 
manofknowledge said:
If you feel that then pay for your own health care. Don't plan on stealing from the rest of us.
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We all pay, it's just a matter of scope and scale. So if he purchased the insurance and then had a million dollar medical bill, ya know who pays? Everyone with insurance pays. One way or another, all medical costs are shared.
 
imagep said:
We all pay, it's just a matter of scope and scale. So if he purchased the insurance and then had a million dollar medical bill, ya know who pays? Everyone with insurance pays. One way or another, all medical costs are shared.
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If everyone has insurance the cost for medical care goes down and we all save
 
SDET said:
My health insurance lapsed a few months ago. The negotiated cash price with my primary care physician is less than my co-pay was. I have found cash based lab test providers and radiology providers that charge less than what I paid previously as a co-pay. Emergency care can't be denied for lack of insurance. My family premium would have been $1,500 per month. I now put that money in a 401-k much of which I can access if I need to penalty free (see rule of 55). A 401-k cannot be attached by a healthcare provider. All my assets are judgment proof. That means I can choose not to pay a medical bill and get away with it. Wage garnishment is illegal in Texas.
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Health insurance is unnecessary as long as health care is true single payer. Take everyone out of the loop except those that are actually providing health care. Everyone pays in and everyone is covered. Trying to figure out a way for others to pay your share is wrong.
 
distraff said:
If I get cancer, I will owe $100,000 this year. With my insurance and my $6,500 out of pocket max, the amount is $6,500. What deal works best for me?
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Why would you want to bet that you are going to have cancer? Personally, I'd rather bet that I will be healthy. I haven't spent more than $20k in all of my 54 years put together (including two recent operations) on healthcare. $18k for insurance plus the $6500 max out of pocket expense is more than 54 years worth of healthcare for me. Now yea, when I get old I may be more likely to have more than $25k of healthcare expenses per year, but I will be on medicare by then.

Worst case is that something horrible happens, and I opt to only have $25k worth of healthcare per year - unless my healthcare debt could be paid off in payments, then I could spend more as long as it's just a one time thing and not ongoing care. $25k will pay for a heart bipass in many countries - so medical tourism is always an option if it comes down to it.
 
vegas giants said:
If everyone has insurance the cost for medical care goes down and we all save
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That's what the republican plan thunk up by Gingrich was all about. When Obama attempted to inact it, suddenly republicans turned against that idea.

Anyhow, can you explain the mechanism of how the third payer (even if the third payer system is private insurance companies or if it is the government) drives down the cost of medical care? Kinda seems to me that it would be the opposite. People don't shop based on price when a third party pays.
 
imagep said:
That's what the republican plan thunk up by Gingrich was all about. When Obama attempted to inact it, suddenly republicans turned against that idea.

Anyhow, can you explain the mechanism of how the third payer (even if the third payer system is private insurance companies or if it is the government) drives down the cost of medical care? Kinda seems to me that it would be the opposite. People don't shop based on price when a third party pays.
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Price is not the only concern. You can go to the cheapest heart surgeon in Thailand if you want......not me
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
Health insurance is unnecessary as long as health care is true single payer. Take everyone out of the loop except those that are actually providing health care. Everyone pays in and everyone is covered. Trying to figure out a way for others to pay your share is wrong.
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I don't think he is trying to get away with not paying his normal healthcare bills, he is just looking at what would happen with the worst case possible. No one ever plans to have a million dollar healthcare bill.
 
charliebrown said:
I have watched people die in ambulances because the primary hospital deemed the patient safe enough to transfer to another facility that regularly accepts uninsured patients.

Good luck with you and your loved ones. I am glad you think your old age is more important than the protection of your loved ones in your prime.
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Bad example. If the patient dies in transport the family may well decide the doctors/hospital committed malpractice and if they can prove it, well they will not have to worry about insurance costs any longer. I agree with your premise thought.

No insurance is a bad idea.
 
vegas giants said:
Price is not the only concern. You can go to the cheapest heart surgeon in Thailand if you want......not me
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Seeing how I don't chose to throw away tens of thousands of dollars a year on health insurance that I am unlikely to use, the cheapest heart surgeon in Thailand may have to be my last resort backup plan. The cheapest doesn't guarantee horrible results any more than the most expensive guarantees that I will even survive the operation. I'd rather take the relatively low risk of checking out of life young after living a nice life style, than to live a longer life broke due to the ridiculous cost of insurance. I suppose it's all about personal preferences.
 
imagep said:
Seeing how I don't chose to throw away tens of thousands of dollars a year on health insurance that I am unlikely to use, the cheapest heart surgeon in Thailand may have to be my last resort backup plan. The cheapest doesn't guarantee horrible results any more than the most expensive guarantees that I will even survive the operation. I'd rather take the relatively low risk of checking out of life young after living a nice life style, than to live a longer life broke due to the ridiculous cost of insurance. I suppose it's all about personal preferences.
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Thst is really rolling the dice. No thanks
 
vegas giants said:
Thst is really rolling the dice. No thanks
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Absolutely, I get that. But it's a risk/reward ratio thing. The reward for me not paying $20k+ for insurance (me and my wife) is having an extra $20k+ in the bank ($200k+++ in additional retirement funds). The only risk is the risk of us having some sort of catastrophic healthcare needs in the next 10 years and five months (before we reach age of 65) - even then, as long as the medical costs is less than $200k or so in total, we walk away from the craps table a winner.

It's also about trade offs. So maybe we purchase insurance, but then we have to give up our twice a year vacations for the next ten years, and we have to skip the dental work that my wife needs immediately (about $15k), and in the future we will not have the cash in the bank to have our house re-roofed, or to purchase that new car.
 
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imagep said:
Absolutely. But it's a risk/reward ratio thing. The reward for me not paying $20k+ for insurance (me and my wife) is having an extra $20k+ in the bank. The only risk is the risk of us having some sort of catistropic healthcare needs in the next 10 years and five months (before we reach age of 65) - even then, as long as the medical costs is less than $200k or so in total, we have still won the craps game.
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If you lose you die
 
vegas giants said:
If you lose you die
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Maybe, maybe not. If you win, you might still die. If there was a guarantee of a good outcome with healthcare insurance, then I would be much less willing to accept the risk of not having insurance, but I could spend $20k a year on insurance and still die of catastrophic illness or injury.
 
imagep said:
Maybe, maybe not. If you win, you might still die. If there was a guarantee of a good outcome with healthcare insurance, then I would be much less willing to accept the risk of not having insurance, but I could spend $20k a year on insurance and still die of catastrophic illness or injury.
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You could smoke and not get cancer.


But I dont play those odds
 
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