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Is health insurance REALLY necessary?

RAMOSS said:
Eligiable for medicare. You know, that socialism.
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Already knew that I just wanted to get him on record as saying he is in favor of a public health system
 
SDET said:
My health insurance lapsed a few months ago. The negotiated cash price with my primary care physician is less than my co-pay was. I have found cash based lab test providers and radiology providers that charge less than what I paid previously as a co-pay. Emergency care can't be denied for lack of insurance. My family premium would have been $1,500 per month. I now put that money in a 401-k much of which I can access if I need to penalty free (see rule of 55). A 401-k cannot be attached by a healthcare provider. All my assets are judgment proof. That means I can choose not to pay a medical bill and get away with it. Wage garnishment is illegal in Texas.
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OK, so basically health insurance is not needed for you because you want everyone else to pay for any catastrophic care should you need it. Routine care is only 7% of overall health spending. So of course you don't need it for that. You get cancer or heart disease or something though, and we will all be foot the bill for it.
 
Barnacle said:
Since you're happily paying for illegals in emergency rooms, the least you can do is pay for your fellow Americans.
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No, genius.... Most people have a conscious. Thus even if someone is here illegally, if they need life saving care, we are not going to let them die in the ****ing street. However, that does not mean that we don't want people to take some personal responsibility and have health insurance.

Some of these arguments you guys make are beyond stupid.
 
I didn't say that. I said subsidized catastrophic care and a cash based system for routine care. Of course there are details on how to prevent non-catastrophic care from being fraudulently billed as catastrophic. What is currently characterized as "insurance" is really a service plan. Notice that I said subsidized and not "free".

Quag said:
We get it you are pro public health for yourself but against it for everyone else
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SDET said:
Healthcare is amazingly cheap in Bolivia, Colombia and Brazil. It's not as cheap, but still inexpensive in Mexico.
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In that case, to answer your question, NO, you don't need a USA healthcare insurance in Bolivia, Colombia and Brazil.
 
SDET said:
I didn't say that. I said subsidized catastrophic care and a cash based system for routine care. Of course there are details on how to prevent non-catastrophic care from being fraudulently billed as catastrophic. What is currently characterized as "insurance" is really a service plan. Notice that I said subsidized and not "free".
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You are planning on using public health care. So obviously you think it is good enough and are in favor of it
 
SDET said:
Why not just go for affordable subsidized universal emergency care? The cash for service routine care is growing and becoming more available.
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Emergency care is expensive, but so is treating chronic diseases, that left untreated turn into emergency care. Dialysis, treating diabetes, treating heart conditions, caring for the disabled among others are very expensive propositions, and with out health care coverage can bankrupt people who are not making $100 000 per year or more very easily, especially if the one who gets sick is the primary income generator
 
lwf said:
Great. So now my tax dollars will be paying for your emergency room visits. But at least we don't have universal healthcare, right?
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Short-sighted people don’t understand that no matter what, taxpayers will pay for their healthcare in one way or another. Either we help those who are not insured (or bilk the system like he is talking about doing) or we pay in the form of higher insurance premiums, to offset the cost of all the write offs (like he is talking about).

There’s a reason it costs $20 for one Tylenol.
 
lwf said:
I'm sorry to hear that. That should never happen in a first world country, and we ought to work to bring the American Healthcare system up to the standards of the rest of the first world countries.

SDET said specifically: "I can choose not to pay a medical bill and get away with it. Wage garnishment is illegal in Texas." Therefore, if this is in fact true, his medical bill would then be paid by your and my tax dollars. Obamacare didn't pay the medical bills of those who could pay their own medical bills. It paid for those who couldn't, much like Medicaid does. The difference is, it forced those people who couldn't pay outrageous healthcare costs to contribute what little they could into a federally managed system, rather than letting them pay nothing and then get free emergency medical care paid for on the back end by our tax dollars anyway.
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I've noticed that a lot of the most staunch conservatives on this board have some kind of loophole that they live with or live under. Either they're on some kind of disability or SSDI, or they're broke, or they're retired and on Social Security and Medicare.

I don't wish to judge but when you're in as deep as that, is it really honest to be so anti-government and so hostile to the concept of the very benefits you yourself have earned, or even lucked into?

I'm older than dirt and I worked for a lifetime, and my wife is a service connected disabled Navy veteran (100%) and so I am honest about being grateful that we receive these benefits which we both have earned.
And where my wife is concerned, it's not even a question of affording private sector if she didn't have her VA care, it's that the private sector wasted six years of her life without ever even getting to an official diagnosis, whereas the VA had one for her within six months.
If she had continued to depend on private sector healthcare she'd be dead and in the ground a long time ago.

Sorry but when someone talks about government subsidized or operated healthcare, I just don't see it as a dirty word.
They've taken excellent care of us both.
 
Superfly said:
Short-sighted people don’t understand that no matter what, taxpayers will pay for their healthcare in one way or another. Either we help those who are not insured (or bilk the system like he is talking about doing) or we pay in the form of higher insurance premiums, to offset the cost of all the write offs (like he is talking about).

There’s a reason it costs $20 for one Tylenol.
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Yes there is. They are ripping you off. Period.

Lets say they had to treat half the people who walk into a emergency room for free. Theoretically that doubles those who pays fee, no? Now how much is a bottle of Tylenol at your local retailer? More or less than $20? Lets call it $20 dollars for a 100 caplets 500mg strength for the most expensive and marked up stuff. That works out to 20 cents a caplet, or a 1000% profit. Hospitals by Tylenol in bulk and they pay about 5 cents a caplet or less. You medical provider makes loan shark loans seem like an excellent deal at 100% interest.
 
Superfly said:
Short-sighted people don’t understand that no matter what, taxpayers will pay for their healthcare in one way or another. Either we help those who are not insured (or bilk the system like he is talking about doing) or we pay in the form of higher insurance premiums, to offset the cost of all the write offs (like he is talking about).

There’s a reason it costs $20 for one Tylenol.
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Yep, an entitlement attitude. If, as stated by many, having UHC would reduce medical care costs by 50% then everyone would be "entitled" to pay $10 for one Tylenol pill. That still begs the question: why should it be OK to charge as much for one pill as a bottle of 50 (or more) pills cost? Could it be to pay the "highly skilled" medical professional person(s) who open the pill bottle, take out a pill and delivery it to the patient?
 
SDET said:
My health insurance lapsed a few months ago. The negotiated cash price with my primary care physician is less than my co-pay was. I have found cash based lab test providers and radiology providers that charge less than what I paid previously as a co-pay. Emergency care can't be denied for lack of insurance. My family premium would have been $1,500 per month. I now put that money in a 401-k much of which I can access if I need to penalty free (see rule of 55). A 401-k cannot be attached by a healthcare provider. All my assets are judgment proof. That means I can choose not to pay a medical bill and get away with it. Wage garnishment is illegal in Texas.
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If I get cancer, I will owe $100,000 this year. With my insurance and my $6,500 out of pocket max, the amount is $6,500. What deal works best for me?
 
PirateMk1 said:
Yes there is. They are ripping you off. Period.

Lets say they had to treat half the people who walk into a emergency room for free. Theoretically that doubles those who pays fee, no? Now how much is a bottle of Tylenol at your local retailer? More or less than $20? Lets call it $20 dollars for a 100 caplets 500mg strength for the most expensive and marked up stuff. That works out to 20 cents a caplet, or a 1000% profit. Hospitals by Tylenol in bulk and they pay about 5 cents a caplet or less. You medical provider makes loan shark loans seem like an excellent deal at 100% interest.
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ttwtt78640 said:
Yep, an entitlement attitude. If, as stated by many, having UHC would reduce medical care costs by 50% then everyone would be "entitled" to pay $10 for one Tylenol pill. That still begs the question: why should it be OK to charge as much for one pill as a bottle of 50 (or more) pills cost? Could it be to pay the "highly skilled" medical professional person(s) who open the pill bottle, take out a pill and delivery it to the patient?
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If it were as simple as taking a Tylenol, a highly skilled medical provider wouldn’t need to dispense it. You know full well how medication is dispensed in hospital situations. If it’s just a Tylenol that’s needed, that can be taken at home.

Y’all are hung up on the fact that Tylenol are so cheap. You get charged more for many things you don’t realize. There is a mark-up for everything you buy. You ever look at the bill when you get your oil changed? What are shop supplies? Shop supplies are nothing. They are a known expense of running a garage, but some genius figured out a way to charge you 10% of your oil change bill for things that they previously had to pay for as a business expense.

All the people who often have to use the ER for minor medical issues are why the cost of medicine is so high. If we had a program where everyone could be covered (like, I don’t know, most forward thinking countries) then the costs wouldn’t have to be marked up so much. They have to be able to make their lost money back somehow, so in the end, WE pay for it.

That’s why it’s cheaper (and better) to have healthcare coverage for everybody, considering we are paying for it anyway.
 
Superfly said:
If it were as simple as taking a Tylenol, a highly skilled medical provider wouldn’t need to dispense it. You know full well how medication is dispensed in hospital situations. If it’s just a Tylenol that’s needed, that can be taken at home.

Y’all are hung up on the fact that Tylenol are so cheap. You get charged more for many things you don’t realize. There is a mark-up for everything you buy. You ever look at the bill when you get your oil changed? What are shop supplies? Shop supplies are nothing. They are a known expense of running a garage, but some genius figured out a way to charge you 10% of your oil change bill for things that they previously had to pay for as a business expense.

All the people who often have to use the ER for minor medical issues are why the cost of medicine is so high. If we had a program where everyone could be covered (like, I don’t know, most forward thinking countries) then the costs wouldn’t have to be marked up so much. They have to be able to make their lost money back somehow, so in the end, WE pay for it.

That’s why it’s cheaper (and better) to have healthcare coverage for everybody, considering we are paying for it anyway.
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You are free (or maybe not) to move to one of those forward thinking countries. Medical care prices are high for many of the the same reasons that convenience store prices are high - folks are willing to pay them. If you want to see convenience store prices really soar then simply mandate that they must serve everyone regardless of their ability to pay.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
You are free (or maybe not) to move to one of those forward thinking countries. Medical care prices are high for many of the the same reasons that convenience store prices are high - folks are willing to pay them. If you want to see convenience store prices really soar then simply mandate that they must serve everyone regardless of their ability to pay.
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Folks aren’t “willing to pay” for the exhorbitant prices that ERs charge. They either have insurance that pays the prices (and then pass the cost on to us in the form of higher premiums) or people stiff the system (as the OP has stated). Some set up payment arrangements, but who can set up a payment arrangement for $50,000 to have a baby?

My husband had a heart attack. His bill was $100,000. Most families would not be able to afford this kind of catastrophic bill without insurance or bankruptcy.

As far as my moving - I am fortunate to be covered by TRICARE Prime for the rest of my life. However, I am not speaking for me. I am speaking for millions of others who are not as fortunate.
 
Superfly said:
Folks aren’t “willing to pay” for the exhorbitant prices that ERs charge. They either have insurance that pays the prices (and then pass the cost on to us in the form of higher premiums) or people stiff the system (as the OP has stated). Some set up payment arrangements, but who can set up a payment arrangement for $50,000 to have a baby?

My husband had a heart attack. His bill was $100,000. Most families would not be able to afford this kind of catastrophic bill without insurance or bankruptcy.

As far as my moving - I am fortunate to be covered by TRICARE Prime for the rest of my life. However, I am not speaking for me. I am speaking for millions of others who are not as fortunate.
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Trusting the same government that created the "stiff the system" program (EMTALA), essentially legalized (grand) theft, to fix that by mandating folks with insurance pay more taxes with the "promise" that UHC (with any details TBD) will save them money is not a wise bet.
 
We paid $2,500 for an uninsured pregnancy service plan when my oldest was born. You just have to have the gumption to call around and ask. For example, if you go to Grady Hospital in Atlanta, you get reduced fees if uninsured.

Superfly said:
Folks aren’t “willing to pay” for the exhorbitant prices that ERs charge. They either have insurance that pays the prices (and then pass the cost on to us in the form of higher premiums) or people stiff the system (as the OP has stated). Some set up payment arrangements, but who can set up a payment arrangement for $50,000 to have a baby?

My husband had a heart attack. His bill was $100,000. Most families would not be able to afford this kind of catastrophic bill without insurance or bankruptcy.

As far as my moving - I am fortunate to be covered by TRICARE Prime for the rest of my life. However, I am not speaking for me. I am speaking for millions of others who are not as fortunate.
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SDET said:
My health insurance lapsed a few months ago. The negotiated cash price with my primary care physician is less than my co-pay was. I have found cash based lab test providers and radiology providers that charge less than what I paid previously as a co-pay. Emergency care can't be denied for lack of insurance. My family premium would have been $1,500 per month. I now put that money in a 401-k much of which I can access if I need to penalty free (see rule of 55). A 401-k cannot be attached by a healthcare provider. All my assets are judgment proof. That means I can choose not to pay a medical bill and get away with it. Wage garnishment is illegal in Texas.
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This is insanity. God forbid one of your loved ones gets seriously ill.

IMHO, you are not thinking this through and it's puts your family members at risk.
 
Superfly said:
If it were as simple as taking a Tylenol, a highly skilled medical provider wouldn’t need to dispense it. You know full well how medication is dispensed in hospital situations. If it’s just a Tylenol that’s needed, that can be taken at home.

Y’all are hung up on the fact that Tylenol are so cheap. You get charged more for many things you don’t realize. There is a mark-up for everything you buy. You ever look at the bill when you get your oil changed? What are shop supplies? Shop supplies are nothing. They are a known expense of running a garage, but some genius figured out a way to charge you 10% of your oil change bill for things that they previously had to pay for as a business expense.

All the people who often have to use the ER for minor medical issues are why the cost of medicine is so high. If we had a program where everyone could be covered (like, I don’t know, most forward thinking countries) then the costs wouldn’t have to be marked up so much. They have to be able to make their lost money back somehow, so in the end, WE pay for it.

That’s why it’s cheaper (and better) to have healthcare coverage for everybody, considering we are paying for it anyway.
Click to expand...

Lets say they had to treat half the people who walk into a emergency room for free. Theoretically that doubles those who pays fee, no? I presume you read that part of my previous quote. The hospitals and health care providers are ripping you and everyone off period.
 
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