Elder orphans: What to expect and where to go

Growing Old Without Family | Elder Orphans Aging Without Family Support

According to Carney, “We are all at risk for becoming isolated and becoming elder orphans.” Even if you’re married, you can outlive your husband or wife. Even if you have children, they may be unable to care for you because of their own busy lives.

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This is DEFINITELY a thing.

My first bit of advice is to go into your elder orphan years rich. Full blown assisted living will easily run $4k/mo and by the time you get there expect it to be $6-8k/mo. If you can't go into your orphan years rich then do so totally broke. There are LOTS of state and federal programs to get you taken care of but being broke takes away your choices.

My second bit of advice is to make sure you have a living trust with a trustee and a couple of successor trustees. You want to make sure your wishes are adhered to so putting it in writing is the way to do that. Also, make sure this stuff is updated every few years. It does no good to have a trust where the primary trustee has dementia and the successors don't know they're listed.

My third bit of advice is to find someone to look after your affairs. Ideally this would be the person who is the trustee of your trust but it doesn't have to be. You'll want someone to hold a medical POA and someone to hold a financial POA. These people (or person) needs to be someone you can both trust and rely on. This person has to be willing and able to remain active in your care. It's great that you have someone as POA who won't run off with your money but if you never see them then they aren't really paying any attention to your quality of life.

My fourth and final bit of advice goes to that quality of life I just mentioned. Being in your home may feel like it's best for your quality of life but if you can't get in and out of the bathtub or pull the weeds or wash the dishes it's going to turn to **** pretty quickly. Your quality of life can often be GREATLY improved by moving somewhere that assistance is readily available. Your perspective regarding quality of life will likely change if you fall in your house and nobody finds you for three days.

Lutherf said:

This is DEFINITELY a thing.

My first bit of advice is to go into your elder orphan years rich. Full blown assisted living will easily run $4k/mo and by the time you get there expect it to be $6-8k/mo. If you can't go into your orphan years rich then do so totally broke. There are LOTS of state and federal programs to get you taken care of but being broke takes away your choices.

My second bit of advice is to make sure you have a living trust with a trustee and a couple of successor trustees. You want to make sure your wishes are adhered to so putting it in writing is the way to do that. Also, make sure this stuff is updated every few years. It does no good to have a trust where the primary trustee has dementia and the successors don't know they're listed.

My third bit of advice is to find someone to look after your affairs. Ideally this would be the person who is the trustee of your trust but it doesn't have to be. You'll want someone to hold a medical POA and someone to hold a financial POA. These people (or person) needs to be someone you can both trust and rely on. This person has to be willing and able to remain active in your care. It's great that you have someone as POA who won't run off with your money but if you never see them then they aren't really paying any attention to your quality of life.

My fourth and final bit of advice goes to that quality of life I just mentioned. Being in your home may feel like it's best for your quality of life but if you can't get in and out of the bathtub or pull the weeds or wash the dishes it's going to turn to **** pretty quickly. Your quality of life can often be GREATLY improved by moving somewhere that assistance is readily available. Your perspective regarding quality of life will likely change if you fall in your house and nobody finds you for three days.

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Great, great, advice! :thumbs:

But I must add that staying in one's home indeed can be very good thing, the best IMO, but with one HUGE caveat:

If, and only IF, you have the financial & human resources to surround yourself with a good care team, starting with a great case manager and a conscientious trustee that can work together as team leadership partners.

To accomplish the above can result in the very best outcome, but it takes a great deal of resources. But if you can swing it, I really do believe it's the best solution, and I can back that up from practical experience.

Chomsky said:

Great, great, advice! :thumbs:

But I must add that staying in one's home indeed can be very good thing, the best IMO, but with one HUGE caveat:

If, and only IF, you have the financial & human resources to surround yourself with a good care team, starting with a great case manager and a conscientious trustee that can work together as team leadership partners.

To accomplish the above can result in the very best outcome, but it takes a great deal of resources. But if you can swing it, I really do believe it's the best solution, and I can back that up from practical experience.

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I've looked at this issue a WHOLE lot and staying in your house while you can still be independent is fine. If you have neighbors and friends you hang out with regularly then by all means stay in your house. However, if you need reminders to take your medication and you have trouble staying steady on your feet and if you can't bend to clean or pick stuff up then you're no longer capable of being independent and it's time to move.

Here are some things that are VERY likely to happen if you choose to stay in your home:
1. You will start to piss your friends, neighbors and family off. You will rely on them more and more to do the things you used to do for yourself and they will become resentful. Their visits will no longer be fun. They'll become burdensome.
2. You will become more isolated. As the people you rely on to help you stop coming by as regularly you'll start getting pissed off at them and your whole attitude will go in the crapper.
3. You'll go broke faster. Sure, you won't be paying $4k/mo for assisted living but you will be paying people to take you to the grocery store and the bank. Home repairs will cost you more because you simply can't do a lot of the basic stuff you used to. Lawn maintenance will become a recurring expense. You'll end up ordering tons of stuff just so the UPS guy shows up and says hello. Trust me on this, you'll blow money like you never have before.
4. You will fall and hurt yourself. One day you'll try to change a light bulb or pull something off a shelf and next thing you know you'll be on the floor. If you're lucky you'll be able to get up and won't be too hurt. If you're unlucky...well...
5. Even if you have a team of people around you all day it will always be the same people and the same routine. You'll get stuck in a rut and if things go sideways it's going to be a huge pain to retool.

Can it be done? Sure. Anything is possible but if you stay in your own place when you're dependent on others then you're limiting your options if you run into trouble.

Those who are elderly with no family around is sad. But what is even more sad are those elderly who have children that may be located all over the country or just a couple miles away and rely on government programs to care for their parents. These now middle aged children to retired are probably the most selfish persons to come down the pike in decades.

It use to be decades ago when your parents could no longer take care of themselves a child would move them in with them and provide for their needs. Not anymore. They leave them to the government to shuffle them into some kind of government assisted living or nursing home. It is really sad to see.

However, if the elderly person planned for their last days, had a home and other assets, all that goes often to paying for some retirement/assisted living place and when that money runs out they are booted out and end up in a government run facility if they have not died by then and too many times alone because their kids are selfish assholes.

vesper said:

Those who are elderly with no family around is sad. But what is even more sad are those elderly who have children that may be located all over the country or just a couple miles away and rely on government programs to care for their parents. These now middle aged children to retired are probably the most selfish persons to come down the pike in decades.

It use to be decades ago when your parents could no longer take care of themselves a child would move them in with them and provide for their needs. Not anymore. They leave them to the government to shuffle them into some kind of government assisted living or nursing home. It is really sad to see.

However, if the elderly person planned for their last days, had a home and other assets, all that goes often to paying for some retirement/assisted living place and when that money runs out they are booted out and end up in a government run facility if they have not died by then and too many times alone because their kids are selfish assholes.

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One of the hardest things for me in my line of work is dealing with families after someone passes away. I've seen some absolutely horrible stuff out of kids (I say kids but often they are adults, some even in their 60s) over a few bucks. I've seen kids put their parents up in horrible places just to save some inheritance money or, often worse, take a parent in when they are ill equipped to do so.

Lutherf said:

This is DEFINITELY a thing.

My first bit of advice is to go into your elder orphan years rich. Full blown assisted living will easily run $4k/mo and by the time you get there expect it to be $6-8k/mo. If you can't go into your orphan years rich then do so totally broke. There are LOTS of state and federal programs to get you taken care of but being broke takes away your choices.

My second bit of advice is to make sure you have a living trust with a trustee and a couple of successor trustees. You want to make sure your wishes are adhered to so putting it in writing is the way to do that. Also, make sure this stuff is updated every few years. It does no good to have a trust where the primary trustee has dementia and the successors don't know they're listed.

My third bit of advice is to find someone to look after your affairs. Ideally this would be the person who is the trustee of your trust but it doesn't have to be. You'll want someone to hold a medical POA and someone to hold a financial POA. These people (or person) needs to be someone you can both trust and rely on. This person has to be willing and able to remain active in your care. It's great that you have someone as POA who won't run off with your money but if you never see them then they aren't really paying any attention to your quality of life.

My fourth and final bit of advice goes to that quality of life I just mentioned. Being in your home may feel like it's best for your quality of life but if you can't get in and out of the bathtub or pull the weeds or wash the dishes it's going to turn to **** pretty quickly. Your quality of life can often be GREATLY improved by moving somewhere that assistance is readily available. Your perspective regarding quality of life will likely change if you fall in your house and nobody finds you for three days.

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My mother is in her own home. (she's turning 93 this month). Of course, I go over at least 1 time a week, and do extra shopping for her.

RAMOSS said:

My mother is in her own home. (she's turning 93 this month). Of course, I go over at least 1 time a week, and do extra shopping for her.

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If she can stay reasonably independent then that's fine. My grandfather lived independently (senior community) until he was 103. He made his own doctor's appointments, cooked his own meals and dated half a dozen ladies in the complex. The trouble a lot of people have is deciding when they can no longer be independent.

Lutherf said:

This is DEFINITELY a thing.

My first bit of advice is to go into your elder orphan years rich. Full blown assisted living will easily run $4k/mo and by the time you get there expect it to be $6-8k/mo. If you can't go into your orphan years rich then do so totally broke. There are LOTS of state and federal programs to get you taken care of but being broke takes away your choices.

My second bit of advice is to make sure you have a living trust with a trustee and a couple of successor trustees. You want to make sure your wishes are adhered to so putting it in writing is the way to do that. Also, make sure this stuff is updated every few years. It does no good to have a trust where the primary trustee has dementia and the successors don't know they're listed.

My third bit of advice is to find someone to look after your affairs. Ideally this would be the person who is the trustee of your trust but it doesn't have to be. You'll want someone to hold a medical POA and someone to hold a financial POA. These people (or person) needs to be someone you can both trust and rely on. This person has to be willing and able to remain active in your care. It's great that you have someone as POA who won't run off with your money but if you never see them then they aren't really paying any attention to your quality of life.

My fourth and final bit of advice goes to that quality of life I just mentioned. Being in your home may feel like it's best for your quality of life but if you can't get in and out of the bathtub or pull the weeds or wash the dishes it's going to turn to **** pretty quickly. Your quality of life can often be GREATLY improved by moving somewhere that assistance is readily available. Your perspective regarding quality of life will likely change if you fall in your house and nobody finds you for three days.

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Get a long term care policy.

Outlook said:

Get a long term care policy.

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Also a good idea. Unfortunately, most of the policies I see these days are nowhere near as good as the ones from 15 years ago but a single premium, life annuity can serve the same purpose.

Lutherf said:

Also a good idea. Unfortunately, most of the policies I see these days are nowhere near as good as the ones from 15 years ago but a single premium, life annuity can serve the same purpose.

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Sounds like you know what your talking about. Are you a financial planner?

vesper said:

Those who are elderly with no family around is sad. But what is even more sad are those elderly who have children that may be located all over the country or just a couple miles away and rely on government programs to care for their parents. These now middle aged children to retired are probably the most selfish persons to come down the pike in decades.

It use to be decades ago when your parents could no longer take care of themselves a child would move them in with them and provide for their needs. Not anymore. They leave them to the government to shuffle them into some kind of government assisted living or nursing home. It is really sad to see.

However, if the elderly person planned for their last days, had a home and other assets, all that goes often to paying for some retirement/assisted living place and when that money runs out they are booted out and end up in a government run facility if they have not died by then and too many times alone because their kids are selfish assholes.

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I had a situation with my dad before he passed this January, where I was trying to get him moved from his house to mine and I had been working on that for some time. Over a year try to cajole him. He agreed a week before he died, I had everything set up including my younger brother to be there everyday.(My clan tends to the stubborn side. We are known to give lessons to mules.) I travel heavily I could only get by every couple of weeks or more if I could. There were more than a few things I missed and were observed by others that never told me or my family until after he died. If I had known, I would have dragged him kicking and screaming to my house. Support was not an issue, I have the money and recourses to handle it but it sure is a hell of a lot easier when you have 5 brothers and sisters who may bicker like cats and dogs but when the doing needs done, things get done without complaint. He was 65 when he died and his death was caused directly by his refusal to stop smoking, that said he was a full grown man who made his own decisions. I think of the situation and all the coulda woulda shoulda, and I am of several minds on the situation as it was. I suppose one way to look at it, is see it as a trial run so when my mom gets up there we able to act with a bit of knowledge and more speed and preparedness. The parents coming to one of our houses was never the issue, the issues at least with Pop, was getting him to make the decision without shoving it down his throat. Which leads me back to the coulda woulda shoulda. If I had it all over to do again, would I do things differently, the answer is a resounding yes. But what and when and how without the knowledge I have now. The racetrack that is the mind.

Lutherf said:

If she can stay reasonably independent then that's fine. My grandfather lived independently (senior community) until he was 103. He made his own doctor's appointments, cooked his own meals and dated half a dozen ladies in the complex. The trouble a lot of people have is deciding when they can no longer be independent.

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Both my sister and I are keeping on eye on that.

Lutherf said:

This is DEFINITELY a thing.

My first bit of advice is to go into your elder orphan years rich.

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Well great, that covers a handful of lucky people.
The rest? Tough beans, I guess.

Outlook said:

Sounds like you know what your talking about. Are you a financial planner?

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No. I'm an accountant.

RAMOSS said:

Both my sister and I are keeping on eye on that.

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God bless you both. It can be a ton of work and, emotionally, it can be utterly draining.

Nice thread.....

I think we are prepared, have about $75K income for me, about same for wife. That should cover the assisted living expenses. 2/3 of my income is tax free, no property taxes as I am 100% disabled, Parkinson's. Navy gives us great benefits...Also have all assets paid for, total about a million, half in house, half in cash.
We are 73 and 71, have low BP, no heart issues. Also have good genes.
Our 2 kids inherit 25% each, 8 grandkids inherit the other half. Won't be easy for 1 or 2 to try and cheat the others.

Have we covered our bases?

PirateMk1 said:

I had a situation with my dad before he passed this January, where I was trying to get him moved from his house to mine and I had been working on that for some time. Over a year try to cajole him. He agreed a week before he died, I had everything set up including my younger brother to be there everyday.(My clan tends to the stubborn side. We are known to give lessons to mules.) I travel heavily I could only get by every couple of weeks or more if I could. There were more than a few things I missed and were observed by others that never told me or my family until after he died. If I had known, I would have dragged him kicking and screaming to my house. Support was not an issue, I have the money and recourses to handle it but it sure is a hell of a lot easier when you have 5 brothers and sisters who may bicker like cats and dogs but when the doing needs done, things get done without complaint. He was 65 when he died and his death was caused directly by his refusal to stop smoking, that said he was a full grown man who made his own decisions. I think of the situation and all the coulda woulda shoulda, and I am of several minds on the situation as it was. I suppose one way to look at it, is see it as a trial run so when my mom gets up there we able to act with a bit of knowledge and more speed and preparedness. The parents coming to one of our houses was never the issue, the issues at least with Pop, was getting him to make the decision without shoving it down his throat. Which leads me back to the coulda woulda shoulda. If I had it all over to do again, would I do things differently, the answer is a resounding yes. But what and when and how without the knowledge I have now. The racetrack that is the mind.

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Thank you for your response PirateMK1.

Don't beat yourself up over how things turned out. You did what you could and in that it should give you comfort. I have been through this with my parents and in-laws. My mother became disabled in her early 50's. My mom and dad were divorced. She agreed to move in with us. You had siblings willing to work with taking care of your dad. I had two brothers and their wives were not willing to assist in anything. Hubby and I arranged our work schedules so that one of us would be home at all times. Hubby was able to claim her as a dependent on his insurance and that insured her the best of care and because of that care she lived for 7 years with us.

When my father in law went legally blind and had Parkinson's and my mother in law did not drive, I became their wheels. On my days off I would take them to their doctor appointments, grocery and retrieve their prescriptions. Hubby would go over at least 2 times a week and would phone on the days he couldn't to make sure they were doing alright. Hubby started asking his parents if they would like to move in with us. Pop's was all for it, Mom in law wasn't. We have a very large family room and a half bath off from it. It would not take much to add walk in shower to the half bath that would accommodate his disability, put in a small kitchenette to prepare their breakfast and lunch and join the family for a dinner in the evening. There was plenty of room to divide a living area and a bedroom area. And because my mother in law was an avid gardener that taught me much, hubby said he would put a private entrance into their area where he would build them a small deck and she could use the area around the deck to continue to garden. She said no. Pops ended up losing his balance in the middle of the night to a trip to the bathroom and fell and broke his hip due to his Parkinson's. He died in the hospital. Mom in law refused to move in with us and a year later she died of a massive heart attack alone. Hubby had a gut feeling something was wrong and went over to her place and found her on the floor, he did mouth to mouth and got color back but time the squad got there she was gone.

It is not easy taking care of aging parents. They have a mind of their own. But every child that tries to look after them has no regrets in the end.

.

Lutherf said:

God bless you both. It can be a ton of work and, emotionally, it can be utterly draining.

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She's in good shape right now, and got her wits about her.

Checkerboard Strangler said:

Well great, that covers a handful of lucky people.
The rest? Tough beans, I guess.

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Luck has a lot less to do with it than you think.

PirateMk1 said:

Luck has a lot less to do with it than you think.

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That is a ridiculous statement. Even the most careful planning doesn't guarantee anything sometimes.
Would you consider Louis Rothschild a careful planner?

Rich or poor, having loving supportive family is everything. And grandchildren provide new purpose in life.