Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 30 of 30

Thread: Check your electrical outlets.

  1. #21
    Sage
    eohrnberger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:30 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    33,741
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: Check your electrical outlets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Checkerboard Strangler View Post
    Well thank you, plenty prosperous. Being well...ehhh, mixed bag.
    To quote Willie Nelson, "ya get old, **** breaks".
    Oh God, ain't that the truth!

    I've got the knees of Joe Namath, ankles like a drunken old British pensioner lady, hips like Leon Russell, frying pans for ears and eyes which are only still good for driving but not good enough to snap focus instantly on a professional movie or TV shoot like I used to. And I'm sporting a belly that deserves beer, but I don't drink.

    Strangely enough, I have NO back or shoulder problems of any kind, as I can still pick my wife up (or a 120 lb equipment case) with one arm if need be. I can even hoist such cases into a grip truck and onto a shelf with one arm if need be.
    Awesome! Be glad for that!

    And that doesn't do much good if I can only take eight or ten steps without my lower half creaking, snapping and whining in agony.
    Ouch!

    Not much market for 63 year old half deaf/half blind Directors of Photography with bad hips, knees and ankles, so I am semi-retired under protest.
    Never stop protesting! Never give in. Innovate! Innovate your way around your challenges!
    I see this in my 8x year old dad every time I visit with him (now the week of the 4th at the cottage - kinda keeping an eye on on him, helping him out, he loves it so much up here - and I don't blame him a bit - its beautiful up here).

    The only guy I ever knew that frail who still managed to make a go of it till his dying day was Haskell Wexler but I don't quite have his awards and recognition. (Don't I wish)
    And when you DO have that much cred, any number of twenty five year olds will do anything to be your helper.

    Sorry for the thread drift, I still get to edit some small stuff here and there.
    Oh hell, I wouldn't worry about it. After all, us 'life experienced guys' kinda need to stick together.
    I mean don't we? Who else is going to keep off the 'young turks?'

    My wife Karen meeting Haskell Wexler

    Attachment 67259387
    Nice. Wishing you both the best.
    Covington Catholic, BuzzFeed Cohen story,
    Beyond BuzzFeed: The 10 Worst, Most Embarrassing U.S. Media Failures on the Trump/Russia Story
    Don't believe the lying leftist 'news' (political propaganda) media! #JournalismIsDead

  2. #22
    defected to kekistan
    beerftw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    kekistan
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:34 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    16,697

    Re: Check your electrical outlets.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Finding one problem electrical outlet/switch should be cause to check the rest. Having an unused (and undamaged) outlet/switch fail would seem to indicate loose wiring connections to the outlet/switch causing an arc across the (tiny) air gap created. This was a common problem with aluminium wiring (used for some residential branch circuits between 1965 and 1973) which is why it is no longer used (except for stranded service entrance cable).
    Aluminum solid wiring is a bastard to deal with. There was an apartment complex not to far from where I live that caught on fire, the insurance company tried tooth and nail to deny coverage because the aluminum wiring had an improper splice, and they determined the splice was the start of the fire where the copper and aluminum meet. What saved his ass was he had detailed down to the finest details the maintenance records since he bought it, and shown all his repairs were in compliance meaning the previous owner was the one cutting corners.

    The aluminum wiring gets loose connections but seeing copper wire does not mean it is all copper. The copper to alumin splice is safe and accepted if done properly but many never did a proper one and went the cheap route to kick the can down the road, meaning the fire will start at the splice instead of the outlet. Copper with a loose connection can do the same however copper simply tends to hold steady over the years while solid aluminum resonates causing loose connections needing a special splice to ensure no future problems.
    Proposition 65 warning- my posts are known to the state of California to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm.

  3. #23
    defected to kekistan
    beerftw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    kekistan
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:34 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    16,697

    Re: Check your electrical outlets.

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Evening DPers. Something happened to me a couple of months ago that I felt important to pass on to you.
    Now for months I have been bitching about redoing a tired old powder room hoping hubby would just hire it out but no he has always been a do it yourself kind of guy even at the age of 71. Every time we hire out work to be done he ends up bitching about the end product. He insists on doing it himself because he can that means I am in it neck deep with things he expects me to do. I'm tired of that rodeo. I am going to be 67. We can afford to have people do the work but he refuses if he can still do it himself. Well he finally got tired of my bitching and started to do the work in the powder room.

    Because of my bitching, he discovered an outlet in the bathroom that we never use running so hot that you could not even touch it. The wires on the inside were frying. It was ready to start an electrical fire. You see my bitching ended up preventing a fire.

    So heads up and take the time to check all your outlets. If they seem warm to hot you have a problem. We will be done with the bathroom tomorrow and it looks fantastic. A lot of work but hey the house didn't burn down.
    I make a habit of checking all my outlets periodically for heat, except the one by my dryer which always gets hot because it is so close to the metal siding, so it's heat is always high during the day so I only check it at night a while after the sun goes down. I live in a single wide built in the late 50's one of the first models to actually look like a mobile home rather than a slightly oversized travel trailer, and even with copper wiring things can work loose over many decades.

    edit: do not assume no aluminum wiring because you do not see it on the switch unless you owned the home since it was built, they can do copper to aluminum splices which are safe if done properly but equally a fire hazard if done improperly.
    Proposition 65 warning- my posts are known to the state of California to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm.

  4. #24
    Sage
    vesper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Midwest
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:10 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,320

    Re: Check your electrical outlets.

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    I make a habit of checking all my outlets periodically for heat, except the one by my dryer which always gets hot because it is so close to the metal siding, so it's heat is always high during the day so I only check it at night a while after the sun goes down. I live in a single wide built in the late 50's one of the first models to actually look like a mobile home rather than a slightly oversized travel trailer, and even with copper wiring things can work loose over many decades.

    edit: do not assume no aluminum wiring because you do not see it on the switch unless you owned the home since it was built, they can do copper to aluminum splices which are safe if done properly but equally a fire hazard if done improperly.
    Good for you! It is something I never concerned myself with but not anymore. It could have ended very badly. I know there is no aluminum wiring as we had the home built. In Ohio even 30 years ago aluminum wire did not meet code.

  5. #25
    Student
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:37 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    232

    Re: Check your electrical outlets.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Outlets have a life expectancy of 15-25 years, but have been known to fail after 5 years. New outlets now have their own circuit breakers, with a reset button in the front for easy access when triggered if running too hot. I have replaced all electrical outlets in my home every ten years, regardless of use or wear. Quality units can be purchased for as little $25 each. Average licensed electrician charges are $75 per hour. Not really a do it yourself job tho it may seem simple.
    I know that I am late to this thread, but as electrician is my main profession, I thought that I would chime in.

    Some terms (layman version) -

    Breaker - provides overcurrent protection and is located in a panel or box. This prevents the user from melting wiring or components due to too much loading.

    Outlet - a point where electricity is used (to the layperson and outlet is the same as a receptacle, but it is not). A light fixture, for example, is installed at an outlet.

    Receptacle - any device that you "plug something into in order to use electricity". Neither a switch nor a light fixture is a receptacle - a receptacle "receives" a plug and cord.

    GFCI - Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter. This is most commonly a receptacle that has a test and reset button on the face. GFCI breakers are made as well as other less common versions of GFCI devices. A GFCI essentially measures current differential so if current in and out are not equal, it trips or shuts down.

    In the real world, a receptacle with a test button is more than likely a GFCI receptacle. GFCI devices are only required in a house to be installed in location where water may be present - bathrooms, kitchens, garages, outside, etc. The rest of the house can have normal receptacles installed and be code compliant. Keep in mind that a GFCI receptacle can protect receptacles downstream - a common example would be a house with 2 bathrooms and has 1 receptacle installed in each. A GFCI may only be found in 1 bathroom and not the other, but the receptacle in the second bathroom is fed from the first (thus the 2nd bathroom has a GFCI protected receptacle).

  6. #26
    Student
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:37 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    232

    Re: Check your electrical outlets.

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    Aluminum solid wiring is a bastard to deal with. There was an apartment complex not to far from where I live that caught on fire, the insurance company tried tooth and nail to deny coverage because the aluminum wiring had an improper splice, and they determined the splice was the start of the fire where the copper and aluminum meet. What saved his ass was he had detailed down to the finest details the maintenance records since he bought it, and shown all his repairs were in compliance meaning the previous owner was the one cutting corners.

    The aluminum wiring gets loose connections but seeing copper wire does not mean it is all copper. The copper to alumin splice is safe and accepted if done properly but many never did a proper one and went the cheap route to kick the can down the road, meaning the fire will start at the splice instead of the outlet. Copper with a loose connection can do the same however copper simply tends to hold steady over the years while solid aluminum resonates causing loose connections needing a special splice to ensure no future problems.
    Aluminum wiring and copper to aluminum connections both have unique problems. Aluminum is not as good of a conductor as copper, which is why aluminum wiring is generally 1 size larger than the same copper circuit. Aluminum also responds to heat and moisture differently than copper, creating unique termination requirements.

    Basically, if you have aluminum, then make sure your connection point is specifically rated for aluminum. This was not always the case (houses built in the 70's are notorious for not having properly rated connections). Your termination/connection point will have AL stamped on it (or AL/CU meaning it is dual rated).

    Aluminum also requires an anti-oxidant compound to be used at the termination due to aluminum's susceptibility to corrosion. The more humid your environment the more important this is.

    Finally, if you are actually connecting aluminum to copper, say in a splice, there are very few (and relatively expensive) rated connectors for this. Hire a professional with experience for this type of work.

    There are a lot of people and contractors who try to work around these requirements due to cost - insurance and safety are good reasons to not go cheap when making repairs to aluminum wiring.

  7. #27
    Temp Suspended

    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 02:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,039
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Check your electrical outlets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuber View Post
    I know that I am late to this thread, but as electrician is my main profession, I thought that I would chime in.
    You are the why I turn to professionals.

  8. #28
    defected to kekistan
    beerftw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    kekistan
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:34 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    16,697

    Re: Check your electrical outlets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuber View Post
    Aluminum wiring and copper to aluminum connections both have unique problems. Aluminum is not as good of a conductor as copper, which is why aluminum wiring is generally 1 size larger than the same copper circuit. Aluminum also responds to heat and moisture differently than copper, creating unique termination requirements.

    Basically, if you have aluminum, then make sure your connection point is specifically rated for aluminum. This was not always the case (houses built in the 70's are notorious for not having properly rated connections). Your termination/connection point will have AL stamped on it (or AL/CU meaning it is dual rated).

    Aluminum also requires an anti-oxidant compound to be used at the termination due to aluminum's susceptibility to corrosion. The more humid your environment the more important this is.

    Finally, if you are actually connecting aluminum to copper, say in a splice, there are very few (and relatively expensive) rated connectors for this. Hire a professional with experience for this type of work.

    There are a lot of people and contractors who try to work around these requirements due to cost - insurance and safety are good reasons to not go cheap when making repairs to aluminum wiring.
    The relatively few and expensive methods are why people tend to not do it right. The metals expand at different rates and the connector needs to be special made for that spice, simply joining them with an ordinary splice will cause the same issues as pure solid strand aluminum wiring but just at a later date.

    Many contractors/ maintenance are trying to keep costs low which often means cutting corners. In the case of the apartment complex, the insurance was well aware of the proper way to do it, as they likely had to pay out numerous times in the past over people trying to save a buck.
    Rewiring an entire house with copper wire is expensive, whereas splices that are proper are cheaper, and improper splices are vastly cheaper. Had a shop I worked for in cali have an air compressor burn up, had an electrician come in and try to reqire it only to stop and have to rip the wiring out. not only was it 220-240 volts for the compressor, the copper wire was half assed spliced to aluminum, and per the building permit the wiring for that section was installed in the 90's, which makes one wonder when even professional electricians trying to build to code use aluminum solid strand wiring and try to hide it like it was copper, almost like they still had rolls of it and were trying to use it anywhere they could.


    If you spent your time as an electrician you have likely seen enough half assery for everyone between random electricians and contractors, many who change company names on a yearly basis to avoid legal liability.
    Last edited by beerftw; 07-30-19 at 11:02 PM.
    Proposition 65 warning- my posts are known to the state of California to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm.

  9. #29
    ~ Proudly Intolerant ~
    Superfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Blue Dot in a Red State
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    34,121

    Re: Check your electrical outlets.

    I am having to have an electrician come out Friday and take out my old fuse box and install a breaker box. The house I just bought is very old, and I knew I would want to replace the electrical , but didn’t realize I couldn’t get homeowners insurance until I replaced it. Makes perfect sense.
    “The question is not whether the GOP will abandon Trump. We know the answer. The question is whether the country will abandon the GOP.” - Dan Rather
    *******
    Faith is not believing that God can - it’s knowing that He will.

  10. #30
    Student
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:37 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    232

    Re: Check your electrical outlets.

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    The relatively few and expensive methods are why people tend to not do it right. The metals expand at different rates and the connector needs to be special made for that spice, simply joining them with an ordinary splice will cause the same issues as pure solid strand aluminum wiring but just at a later date.

    Many contractors/ maintenance are trying to keep costs low which often means cutting corners. In the case of the apartment complex, the insurance was well aware of the proper way to do it, as they likely had to pay out numerous times in the past over people trying to save a buck.
    Rewiring an entire house with copper wire is expensive, whereas splices that are proper are cheaper, and improper splices are vastly cheaper. Had a shop I worked for in cali have an air compressor burn up, had an electrician come in and try to reqire it only to stop and have to rip the wiring out. not only was it 220-240 volts for the compressor, the copper wire was half assed spliced to aluminum, and per the building permit the wiring for that section was installed in the 90's, which makes one wonder when even professional electricians trying to build to code use aluminum solid strand wiring and try to hide it like it was copper, almost like they still had rolls of it and were trying to use it anywhere they could.


    If you spent your time as an electrician you have likely seen enough half assery for everyone between random electricians and contractors, many who change company names on a yearly basis to avoid legal liability.
    Unfortunately half assery is a part of life. Some do it out of ignorance, some due to expense, some (the scariest ones) do it as a way to scam people out of their money.

    My advice to avoid the scam artists - get multiple bids, check references, check licenses, insist on permits when required, and most importantly - don't pay until the work is complete.

    Never pay up front.

    Never make a down payment.

    Never pay for materials to "start the job"

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •