So I Told My Friend He's a Drunk Today

lurchadams said:

No, that's not the issue. He had to give his ex half his stuff but we all do in WA state in a divorce - I had to do it.

There's a question I asked you another thread you left unanswered. I remain very curious as to your response. Did you intentionally ignore it?

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ThoughtIsFree said:

If you feel you know it all, why discuss this on the forum? Drinking while on the drugs he's taking may kill him. I had a brother in law die a year and a half ago while taking opiates and drinking. He quit the drinking, cut down on the pain pills but went back up in dosage when the pain got worse, he died in his recliner. He got his system all messed up stopping the drinking and changing the dose on the pain meds.

Much luck to your friend, this problem is very serious.

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SDET said:

You don't stand out from other posters. I generally decline to answer questions if I believe that they are not worth my effort.

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lurchadams said:

You know what? You know what? You're right. I don't know it all and I'll try to think of a way to find out if he's on any addictive meds or illegal drugs.

I must repeat that Cal has been very forthcoming to me with everything else, including admitting he "got the shakes" at work from alcohol starvation. I guess I'm wondering why he'd leave out his heroin use, if he had such a use, for example.

I assure you I will follow-up on this, my concerned friend.

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ThoughtIsFree said:

Wow, you're kind of out there. I wasn't even considering illegal drugs.
After talking with you in this thread I'm done.

I don't care any longer.

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lurchadams said:

As you wish. I realize you are only trying to help and am very sorry if I've disappointed, angered or offended you, m'lady.

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lurchadams said:

I've known Cal for well over 20 years. We became friends at work, he went on to a different company but we remained friends. He used to coach our company softball team. He's got an undergrad, an MBA, and 2 PHD's. He's got a lot of knowledge but not as much common sense as I wish he could have. Anyway, he's my friend, and I love him.

Cal got divorced, roughly the same time as I did, 2 years ago. As friends, we stopped hanging out for awhile because his wife (now his ex) didn't like hanging around our kids. When Cal got divorced we started hanging out again. Cal is still not over his divorce. His ex-wife is a malignant narcissist. She had and has zero empathy for Cal. She announced she was dumping him at work, in the lobby of their office building, the day before Cal was going to head on vacation. He fainted. She couldn't wait to do it, in private, after Cal returned. Suffice to say, Cal had a pretty ****ing ****ty time on that vacation. Anyway, that's the kind of horrible person she is.

Anyway, Cal's still not over her, although me, his family and all his other friends tell him he does not want her back. He agrees and says, "keep telling me that". Well, ok. But he's got to realize it himself.

So, mourning the end of his marriage 2 years ago Cal started self-medicating with booze. Hard alcohol. Every time I've seen him the past 2 years he's had some kind of drink goin'.

He hosted me and my brother, and his former nephew Christmas for dinner. Cal passed out in his recliner right after dinner. We all ended up cleaning up, putting the food away, then we just left and locked him in. This is when I realized I had to do what I could do to stop this. I called Cal at work the next day and told him for the first time, "Cal, I'm worried about your drinking". He said, "Yeah, it's a bit of a problem".

Anyway, he lives between where my kids' mom lives and where I live. After dropping off the kids, I usually stop by and visit with Cal. Tonight I became a real asshole. When Cal let me in tonight, I said, "Hi, Cal! How's the drinking going?". He joked "it's still going, ha, ha, I'm still doing it!, ha ha". Then later this evening he said, "ha ha, a few hours into work I get the shakes, ha, ha".

And I just ****ing lost it. I said, "So Cal! You're a drunk!". He said, "Yeah, I'm a drunk". So I told him, "we're going to find a meeting by your house, when I get back Saturday you and I are going to an AA meeting". And he agreed. So we're going to Cal's first AA meeting this Saturday. It's a good start!

I'm hopeful!

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ThoughtIsFree said:

My concern was for your friend, not you. Possibly you should read up on addiction if you truly want to help your friend.

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lurchadams said:

Are there any specific texts you are willing to recommend?

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ThoughtIsFree said:

These days there is much knowledge about addiction and you could find all you need by using Google.

You seem to be into AA so I would suggest you read the Big Book. Also look up blood pressure drugs, anti depressants and opioids, you'll find drinking with any of these drugs is a no no. In fact I'm surprised his doctor is still giving him his meds when aware he's drinking, possibly he isn't aware. No doctor should be giving him these drugs when he's abusing alcohol while taking them.

Also you're using his divorce as an excuse for his drinking, if he's an alcoholic he has an addiction problem and any excuse will work to drink to much. I don't know your friend and only know what you're sharing but the story doesn't add up because of three professionals in the medical world allowing this 65 yr. old man to kill himself by taking the medication along with abusive drinking. Do you have any ideas how much he's drinking?

Just a start but explains where I'm coming from

https://www.alcoholrehabguide.org/alcohol/drinking-and-drugs/

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lurchadams said:

Not allowed to talk about the people at the meeting, but it went ok. Cal wont commit to going to the next one - seeing people who had hit rock bottom disturbed him.

I did ask him about addictive drugs as Miss TIF suggested and Cal did admit that he had access to Valium.

Soo.. that could be a problem. I asked him to be careful not to replace one with another. I sure hope he keeps going to meetings!

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ThoughtIsFree said:

If you did any research you now know all of the medications you said Cal was taking are a danger when taken with alcohol and now Valium included. Also you will find people who are using are not usually honest. Much luck to your friend and yourself, this usually isn't an easy fix. Be prepared for your friend to go through ups and downs etc.

Cal may have to hit his rock bottom before he can recover.

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lurchadams said:

That's exactly what we talked about in the car on the way back. (Not revealing any names or specifics from the meeting we're not supposed to)...

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lurchadams said:

I've known Cal for well over 20 years. We became friends at work, he went on to a different company but we remained friends. He used to coach our company softball team. He's got an undergrad, an MBA, and 2 PHD's. He's got a lot of knowledge but not as much common sense as I wish he could have. Anyway, he's my friend, and I love him.

Cal got divorced, roughly the same time as I did, 2 years ago. As friends, we stopped hanging out for awhile because his wife (now his ex) didn't like hanging around our kids. When Cal got divorced we started hanging out again. Cal is still not over his divorce. His ex-wife is a malignant narcissist. She had and has zero empathy for Cal. She announced she was dumping him at work, in the lobby of their office building, the day before Cal was going to head on vacation. He fainted. She couldn't wait to do it, in private, after Cal returned. Suffice to say, Cal had a pretty ****ing ****ty time on that vacation. Anyway, that's the kind of horrible person she is.

Anyway, Cal's still not over her, although me, his family and all his other friends tell him he does not want her back. He agrees and says, "keep telling me that". Well, ok. But he's got to realize it himself.

So, mourning the end of his marriage 2 years ago Cal started self-medicating with booze. Hard alcohol. Every time I've seen him the past 2 years he's had some kind of drink goin'.

He hosted me and my brother, and his former nephew Christmas for dinner. Cal passed out in his recliner right after dinner. We all ended up cleaning up, putting the food away, then we just left and locked him in. This is when I realized I had to do what I could do to stop this. I called Cal at work the next day and told him for the first time, "Cal, I'm worried about your drinking". He said, "Yeah, it's a bit of a problem".

Anyway, he lives between where my kids' mom lives and where I live. After dropping off the kids, I usually stop by and visit with Cal. Tonight I became a real asshole. When Cal let me in tonight, I said, "Hi, Cal! How's the drinking going?". He joked "it's still going, ha, ha, I'm still doing it!, ha ha". Then later this evening he said, "ha ha, a few hours into work I get the shakes, ha, ha".

And I just ****ing lost it. I said, "So Cal! You're a drunk!". He said, "Yeah, I'm a drunk". So I told him, "we're going to find a meeting by your house, when I get back Saturday you and I are going to an AA meeting". And he agreed. So we're going to Cal's first AA meeting this Saturday. It's a good start!

I'm hopeful!

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lurchadams said:

Not allowed to talk about the people at the meeting, but it went ok. Cal wont commit to going to the next one - seeing people who had hit rock bottom disturbed him.

I did ask him about addictive drugs as Miss TIF suggested and Cal did admit that he had access to Valium.

Soo.. that could be a problem. I asked him to be careful not to replace one with another. I sure hope he keeps going to meetings!

Click to expand...

lurchadams said:

Not allowed to talk about the people at the meeting, but it went ok. Cal wont commit to going to the next one - seeing people who had hit rock bottom disturbed him.

I did ask him about addictive drugs as Miss TIF suggested and Cal did admit that he had access to Valium.

Soo.. that could be a problem. I asked him to be careful not to replace one with another. I sure hope he keeps going to meetings!

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JasperL said:

We're all at a disadvantage because we don't know what you saw, but I'll just reiterate that there are likely many groups with many personalities. Some in my area frequently have a pretty big population of those just coming in (i.e. somewhere right at their bottom) and they're depressing for me, and I've been sober a while. I just don't go to them anymore - I sometimes felt worse coming out and that's a bad thing.

My current main group isn't like that. We have a lot of working and retired professionals, and lots of men and some women across the income scale from cooks to business owners with lots of years sober, so they're often pretty upbeat, and before and after meetings is very upbeat. We get quite a few first timers - white chip meetings is what we call them - and they're usually great. The goal is to inspire people, not drag them down.

It would be great if you or your friend could find someone who's been in the program just to talk about AA, what to expect, and what meetings might suit him. You don't have to know the person well - many/most people in AA would be happy to meet for coffee or lunch or whatever, just for the asking. I've done it several times with/for people I don't know at all, friends of friends of friends. The bottom line is someone who doesn't want to go or be there isn't likely to get a lot of benefit.

A couple of people above talked about hitting 'bottom.' I've been in maybe 50 meetings where that's discussed, and I'm not sure it's a helpful concept at some level, mainly because no one from the outside (anyone who isn't the drunk) can know where that is. And for some people, many people, if left to find their own bottom that could mean literally dead. If not from drinking and the many health problems directly or indirectly associated with alcoholism, then from suicide, or a wreck, whatever. Or 'rock bottom' could be married, with a good job and understanding wife and great kids, but just realizing that this **** just cannot go on forever, so it's got to stop. At my regular meeting it ranges from homeless for years and literally barred from the Salvation Army "Until Jesus returns" for fighting and stealing, to a guy who is owner of a major local investment firm, first wife, still married. I knew that guy pretty well through my best friend, and drank with him many times, and it never occurred to me he had a problem, until I went to my current group for the first time and there he was, came in three years before I did.... So from the outside, 'bottom' isn't possible to see and waiting on it IMO is a mistake.

What people absolutely DO have to decide is that it's time, and that being sober and how bad that sucks for a few weeks or months or whatever is better than drinking. That's how I look at 'hitting bottom' and let's all hope your friend's 'bottom' is a high one. Friends (and a great wife) that care went a long way keeping mine from being FAR worse than it could have been, so you're doing the right thing, but at the end of the day that decision was mine and mine alone and my wife and others put up with a lot of **** for a long time before I came around. Whatever happens it's never your fault - that's ALL with the guy with the addiction, not even a little, ever, with those trying to help. eace

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lurchadams said:

Keep it up, buddy! Thanks.

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Trippy Trekker said:

Perspective after 6.5 years of 12-Step (in my case, Al-Anon) participation:

1. Attendees, with rare exception, intimately know the feeling of wallowing in chaos, melodrama and insanity... and the feeling of a reactive instead of proactive lifestyle.
2. You create your own regimen.. in terms of how often you attend meetings, what program tools you use during and between meetings.
3. At some point, participation led to a sense of understanding the underlying culture via familiarity with steps, traditions, concepts, corny slogans, sharing experience, strength and hope.
4. Incredibly affordable and accessible: you only donate what you want; you can easily find a meeting.
5. While most meetings occur in churches.. admittedly, for me, a religious bias exists, the program has plenty of non-religious people (including me) who actively participate.

My backstory included divorce, four children from three women, sex addiction and familiarity with alcohol and drugs ( I owned a bar in the 1990s). By 2012, I turned 56 that summer, my unsustainable lifestyle caught up with me. The Florida Dept. of Children and Families (DCF) ordered me into Al-Anon... using access to one of my minor children as leverage. I gamed participation in Al-Anon the first two years. In 2014, my home group needed a group representative. No one wanted to serve. I have a decades long background in condo mgmt and as a real estate broker. I accepted the service position. My knowledge of 12-Step accelerated appreciably!

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lurchadams said:

Wow, Trip! What a story. Thanks for your words of wisdom and I wish you much success and continued sobriety!

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lurchadams said:

That's exactly what we talked about in the car on the way back. (Not revealing any names or specifics from the meeting we're not supposed to) but I said something like, "Cal a lot of those folks we saw either have or are hitting rock bottom" I said something to the effect that I'd sure not like to see it get that far with him. He seemed to understand. I also passed along your suggestion that his pschyc take special heed to his med combination. That's all I can do right now until I see something else. My hope is that seeing that seeing some of the folks in the tough shape they were in, (one person had just got out of a month rehab) will shake Cal up a little bit.

That's my hope right now because he doesn't seem too keen now about going to another meeting

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