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Opioids?

Rexedgar

Rexedgar

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I had major surgery about five years ago and was prescribed Oxicontin to use during recovery. On days when the pain was elevated, I would take two, (dose was 5 mg). It helped with the physical pain, but the mental high was not something enjoyable. I still am able to keep a few on hand for break through days. I’m 65 and led a very active career and leisure activities. It’s easier for me to show you where there is no pain. I’m able to make a script (20) last for three months. What is the draw to use these recreationally? Oxicontin/Oxicodone make me itch fiercely, so we have settled on Percocet. Same experience as the others, ok for pain, but getting high, not so much. Anyone with experienced?
 
Rexedgar said:
I had major surgery about five years ago and was prescribed Oxicontin to use during recovery. On days when the pain was elevated, I would take two, (dose was 5 mg). It helped with the physical pain, but the mental high was not something enjoyable. I still am able to keep a few on hand for break through days. I’m 65 and led a very active career and leisure activities. It’s easier for me to show you where there is no pain. I’m able to make a script (20) last for three months. What is the draw to use these recreationally? Oxicontin/Oxicodone make me itch fiercely, so we have settled on Percocet. Same experience as the others, ok for pain, but getting high, not so much. Anyone with experienced?
Click to expand...

Not exactly what you asked but I support you getting whatever you need that helps. This so called “opioid epidemic” can kiss my ass. The type of medication prescribed and how much should be entirely between a doctor and their patient. Sorry, I know I’m going off on tangent but as is typical of the government and in this case a very Republican one, they think they know better and should be able to dictate and control doctors decisions.
 
Rexedgar said:
I had major surgery about five years ago and was prescribed Oxicontin to use during recovery. On days when the pain was elevated, I would take two, (dose was 5 mg). It helped with the physical pain, but the mental high was not something enjoyable. I still am able to keep a few on hand for break through days. I’m 65 and led a very active career and leisure activities. It’s easier for me to show you where there is no pain. I’m able to make a script (20) last for three months. What is the draw to use these recreationally? Oxicontin/Oxicodone make me itch fiercely, so we have settled on Percocet. Same experience as the others, ok for pain, but getting high, not so much. Anyone with experienced?
Click to expand...

I've heard they crush them and snort the powder. Don't know why that would make a difference, but it must be something because many are addicted to it.
 
Rexedgar said:
I had major surgery about five years ago and was prescribed Oxicontin to use during recovery. On days when the pain was elevated, I would take two, (dose was 5 mg). It helped with the physical pain, but the mental high was not something enjoyable. I still am able to keep a few on hand for break through days. I’m 65 and led a very active career and leisure activities. It’s easier for me to show you where there is no pain. I’m able to make a script (20) last for three months. What is the draw to use these recreationally? Oxicontin/Oxicodone make me itch fiercely, so we have settled on Percocet. Same experience as the others, ok for pain, but getting high, not so much. Anyone with experienced?
Click to expand...
On the psychological side, I expect many of the people who choose to take these drugs will be starting from a much lower mental state that you are so the high from the drugs is an improvement for them. Of course, the main issue with proscribed opioids is addiction, when patients need to take much more than you to manage their pain. Even if the side effects are unpleasant, the effects of them not taking them can get much worse.
 
HowardBThiname said:
I've heard they crush them and snort the powder. Don't know why that would make a difference, but it must be something because many are addicted to it.
Click to expand...
That’s just to get it in to the blood stream quicker. Many pharmaceuticals will be specifically designed to slow release the active ingredients when taken normally so the benefits lasts longer. Addicts are looking for a quick big hit instead.
 
Rexedgar said:
I had major surgery about five years ago and was prescribed Oxicontin to use during recovery. On days when the pain was elevated, I would take two, (dose was 5 mg). It helped with the physical pain, but the mental high was not something enjoyable. I still am able to keep a few on hand for break through days. I’m 65 and led a very active career and leisure activities. It’s easier for me to show you where there is no pain. I’m able to make a script (20) last for three months. What is the draw to use these recreationally? Oxicontin/Oxicodone make me itch fiercely, so we have settled on Percocet. Same experience as the others, ok for pain, but getting high, not so much. Anyone with experienced?
Click to expand...

Opioids are meant for pain killing. When you take them recreationally your body, like almost anything else, builds up a tolerance to it so that it takes more and more each time to reach the same high. Not only that but with your body building up tolerance, should you ever need it for pain killing it won't work as well (or at all) with the body tolerance without taking a crap load. This is why opioid overdose happens so often with people using it recreationally. I've heard of people taking 5 or 6 Percocet recreationally and it does virtually nothing for them after a year or more of opioid abuse.
 
HonestJoe said:
On the psychological side, I expect many of the people who choose to take these drugs will be starting from a much lower mental state that you are so the high from the drugs is an improvement for them. Of course, the main issue with proscribed opioids is addiction, when patients need to take much more than you to manage their pain. Even if the side effects are unpleasant, the effects of them not taking them can get much worse.
Click to expand...

This explains much.
 
I guess everyone reacts differently...I took Oxycontin back in 2005, when I had a ruptured disk...sooooo much pain and the pills brought much needed relief, along with a very pleasant feeling...I can easily understand my becoming addicted to such a drug...I liked the feeling waaaay too much, which I am very much aware...
 
X Factor said:
Not exactly what you asked but I support you getting whatever you need that helps. This so called “opioid epidemic” can kiss my ass. The type of medication prescribed and how much should be entirely between a doctor and their patient. Sorry, I know I’m going off on tangent but as is typical of the government and in this case a very Republican one, they think they know better and should be able to dictate and control doctors decisions.
Click to expand...

https://www.drugabuse.gov/drugs-abuse/opioids/opioid-overdose-crisis

It is pretty bad.
 
Rexedgar said:
I had major surgery about five years ago and was prescribed Oxicontin to use during recovery. On days when the pain was elevated, I would take two, (dose was 5 mg). It helped with the physical pain, but the mental high was not something enjoyable. I still am able to keep a few on hand for break through days. I’m 65 and led a very active career and leisure activities. It’s easier for me to show you where there is no pain. I’m able to make a script (20) last for three months. What is the draw to use these recreationally? Oxicontin/Oxicodone make me itch fiercely, so we have settled on Percocet. Same experience as the others, ok for pain, but getting high, not so much. Anyone with experienced?
Click to expand...

A guy i use to know was a pool repair man. One day he got his hand caught in a machine and he almost lost it.
after extensive surgery etc they were able to save his hand.

However the doctor prescribed him oxy. His wife was mad and told him not too because they had addiction problems in the past.
well the doctor would never manage his pain properly and constantly was prescribing it. He lost his family and ended up dead because of it.

People get addicted to the high.
opiods are addicting. It is the same reason they quit giving morphine to soldiers in combat because
they became addicted to it.

if managed properly then they are fine, but people abuse them.
 
There are two problems with opioid addiction. 1 is with people that have been prescribed opioids as a 'treatment' for pain (its not a treatment...never has been, never will be), and 2 is with drug users seeking a means of getting high.

In pain management, the theory holds that with low enough doses, pain medications can make the pain tolerable. And as people were in real and legitimate pain, appropriate medical care provided relief without becoming addicting. There were other contributing factors including quality of life. But things changed about 2 decades ago when doctors started allowing the patients to dictate what they wanted and big pharm got good at handing out free samples. In short...doctors got lazy, people got stupid, and big pharm got rich.

Look at something as relatively simple as a sprained or strained back. Lots of people get them every year. Hurts like hell, and you can get a nice jolt if you move too fast or too far and may have difficulty breathing. Common for people to rush to the doc and get on pain meds. Also common for people to use hot and cold compresses, wraps, and take it easy for a few weeks. It doesnt need to be treated with pain meds.

Ive had numerous surgeries due to my time in the military. Every time I have gone home they sent me home with a bag full of pain pills even though I have told them, I dont take pain pills (Extra Strength Excedrin for Migraine and of course the military cure all, Motrin...what more do you need?). But now there are bottles and bottles of pain pills laying around easy for teenagers, their friends, houseguests, whatever, to score some without anyone knowing they are missing. (thats an exampe-I always get rid of our meds at the drop box...dont keep prescription drugs in the home). Docs overprescribe. People overuse. Its easy to see where the addiction comes from.
 
Rexedgar said:
I had major surgery about five years ago and was prescribed Oxicontin to use during recovery. On days when the pain was elevated, I would take two, (dose was 5 mg). It helped with the physical pain, but the mental high was not something enjoyable. I still am able to keep a few on hand for break through days. I’m 65 and led a very active career and leisure activities. It’s easier for me to show you where there is no pain. I’m able to make a script (20) last for three months. What is the draw to use these recreationally? Oxicontin/Oxicodone make me itch fiercely, so we have settled on Percocet. Same experience as the others, ok for pain, but getting high, not so much. Anyone with experienced?
Click to expand...

Personally, I cannot stand narcotics....I suffered through the effects you have mentioned; itchy skin ( though, sometimes MD's may give Benadryl in conjunction to help alleviate this problem ), my skin feels like it is crawling, nausea , vomiting, confusion, irritability, etc.

If you speak to your care provider about other options, it may help...I am rather partial to Toradol..non narcotic and pretty effective for moderate pain.
 
The draw is the euphoric high, but it depends on the opiate and the person. It is widely known that something like morphine is a low grade high, whereas fentanyl, hydromorphone and heroin are superior. The addictive quality is that your native opiate system begins to down-regulate in the presence of these drugs, so your body's own ability to regulate emotional and physical pain becomes debilitated. That's when the real addiction begins. Some people metabolize opiates very fast so it does hardly anything for them, whereas others will stay swimming in their previous dosage for a day or more. I think the longer the drug lingers in the body the more at risk for addiction you are.

I've worked a lot in harm reduction over the years. When it comes to opiate addicts, there are two broad types. There's the ones that started off curious and then insidiously slipped into an addictive pattern, and there's the ones who had a pre-existing pain condition that was mismanaged by their doctor.

Opiate addiction is actually rather insidious. It creeps up, rather than happens all at once. Sparse use turns into a little more here and there, then a little more, until you are a full time user. There are a lot of people who manage to use opiates for years without truly getting hooked, but then they go through a phase of slightly intense use and suddenly they have a physical addiction and they can't self-regulate without it.

I've only ever been exposed to opiates from having surgery. I found them pleasant because they masked the pain with a soothing, euphoric sensation. However, after weeks of being on them I found that they made me kind of deranged. I would have very disjointed dreams and sometimes waking hallucinations that were very disturbing for me. I'm not someone who likes being mind altered, I don't even drink alcohol. But I do think that severe pain must be medicated... people have a right to have pain soothed. Pain is extremely destructive long-term to personality and disposition. I have seen some really bright, competent people degenerate into bitter, closed off shells of humanity because pain totally took over their lives.
 
Rexedgar said:
I had major surgery about five years ago and was prescribed Oxicontin to use during recovery. On days when the pain was elevated, I would take two, (dose was 5 mg). It helped with the physical pain, but the mental high was not something enjoyable. I still am able to keep a few on hand for break through days. I’m 65 and led a very active career and leisure activities. It’s easier for me to show you where there is no pain. I’m able to make a script (20) last for three months. What is the draw to use these recreationally? Oxicontin/Oxicodone make me itch fiercely, so we have settled on Percocet. Same experience as the others, ok for pain, but getting high, not so much. Anyone with experienced?
Click to expand...

I'm confused by the ending.

Percocet = Oxycodone + Acetomenophan (tylenol).

Usually 5mg/325mg. The only difference between Percocet and Oxycontin is that Oxycontin is just Oxycodone; hence people abused Oxycontin. Someone looking to get really high (as in, addict-levels high) from Percocet would be risking liver failure, not that that stopped many from doing it anyway.....


You could always ask for hydrocodone instead. Usually sold as "vicoden" 5mg hydrocodone/325mg tylenol, though there's also 7.5/500, 10/500. I'm not sure if they make any hydrocodone-only.

They also used to make Vicoprofen. Hydrocodone + Ibuprofen (Advil). I'd ask for that if you wanted to try something else, since Tylenol sucks (and is bad for your liver).

It should be less head-muddling but you'll still get some of that. It's inevitable with any opioid - it's part of what helps ease the pain.



There's also plain old codeine but it's relatively weak.


Honestly, if you want a non-opiod with decent painkilling, look into Kratom powder and/or akuamma seed pills.

Kratom is a weaker partial agonist of mu-opioid receptors than is codeine and its derivatives. (Some media have labeled it an "opioid" but that is false. Opioids are derived from codeine and morphine, the active ingredients in opium). Less abusable but also less side-effects. Less debilitating in terms of confusion, etc. Akuamma....I think is also a weak general opioid receptor agonist. Generally not abusable unless one takes a large amount (that can then cause a lot of vomiting, from what I gather).

Check your state. I think Kratom is legal in all but 5 states. Akuamma I think in every.





Or....

Or.....

Gorilla Glue 4.jpg

+ CBD oil + Advil. But I suppose you'd have to go with CBD + Advil until you're used to it. The thing a lot of people don't seem to understand about pot is that if used regularly, it is not that debilitating unless you deliberately get very stoned. But you don't need to be stoned to achieve reasonable painkilling effects.

I personally wouldn't do very difficult mental work after ingesting any, but one can certainly do just about most things after a puff or two IF one is used to it already. But then I don't know where you live.
 
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HowardBThiname said:
I've heard they crush them and snort the powder. Don't know why that would make a difference, but it must be something because many are addicted to it.
Click to expand...

Insufflation allows substances that do not first have to be broken down by the liver to absorb (ie, Adrafinil into Modnafinil), enter the bloodstream, and then cross the blood-brain barrier much more quickly.

Injection does it faster.

The peak feeling of euphoria is higher the less time elapses from first crossing of the blood-brain barrier of the substance to complete crossing. That of course also in turn means the comedown is faster.
 
HonestJoe said:
That’s just to get it in to the blood stream quicker. Many pharmaceuticals will be specifically designed to slow release the active ingredients when taken normally so the benefits lasts longer. Addicts are looking for a quick big hit instead.
Click to expand...

Indeed. Hence after coming under fire the makers of Oxycontin reformulated it to make it harder to crush a pill and to ensure that even if crushed, less of the actual substance would be absorbed into the veins inside the nasal passages.

However, I would note, not all addicts. Many are content to swallow the stuff and let it kick in normally. It's more the "red line" addicts who snort everything, then skip to injection. It's a big mosaic of misery....
 
VanceMack said:
There are two problems with opioid addiction. 1 is with people that have been prescribed opioids as a 'treatment' for pain (its not a treatment...never has been, never will be), and 2 is with drug users seeking a means of getting high.

In pain management, the theory holds that with low enough doses, pain medications can make the pain tolerable. And as people were in real and legitimate pain, appropriate medical care provided relief without becoming addicting. There were other contributing factors including quality of life. But things changed about 2 decades ago when doctors started allowing the patients to dictate what they wanted and big pharm got good at handing out free samples. In short...doctors got lazy, people got stupid, and big pharm got rich.

Look at something as relatively simple as a sprained or strained back. Lots of people get them every year. Hurts like hell, and you can get a nice jolt if you move too fast or too far and may have difficulty breathing. Common for people to rush to the doc and get on pain meds. Also common for people to use hot and cold compresses, wraps, and take it easy for a few weeks. It doesnt need to be treated with pain meds.

Ive had numerous surgeries due to my time in the military. Every time I have gone home they sent me home with a bag full of pain pills even though I have told them, I dont take pain pills (Extra Strength Excedrin for Migraine and of course the military cure all, Motrin...what more do you need?). But now there are bottles and bottles of pain pills laying around easy for teenagers, their friends, houseguests, whatever, to score some without anyone knowing they are missing. (thats an exampe-I always get rid of our meds at the drop box...dont keep prescription drugs in the home). Docs overprescribe. People overuse. Its easy to see where the addiction comes from.
Click to expand...

And let's be clear, there are two very different layers to the addiction:

1. The psychological addiction. This applies to things like sex as much as heroin. That's the psychological aspect of seeking that high feeling, which becomes feeling normal and everything else hellish over a course of years.

2. The physical addiction. That's where over-prescribed patients who keep going back for more land. Yes, they are chasing the high but they aren't necessarily psychologically addicted to it. But when they try to stop, on come the sweats, shakes, ****s, chills; the deep bone pain, vomiting, hallucinations. And now it's a real battle.
 
Mr Person said:
Insufflation allows substances that do not first have to be broken down by the liver to absorb (ie, Adrafinil into Modnafinil), enter the bloodstream, and then cross the blood-brain barrier much more quickly.

Injection does it faster.

The peak feeling of euphoria is higher the less time elapses from first crossing of the blood-brain barrier of the substance to complete crossing. That of course also in turn means the comedown is faster.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that explanation. It makes sense that they would want to feel as much euphoria as possible.

The thing that strikes me is the desire so many have to seek that high feeling when they know it's so damaging to their minds, bodies, and ultimately, their lives. What is it about life that makes so many want to escape it?
 
Rexedgar said:
I had major surgery about five years ago and was prescribed Oxicontin to use during recovery. On days when the pain was elevated, I would take two, (dose was 5 mg). It helped with the physical pain, but the mental high was not something enjoyable. I still am able to keep a few on hand for break through days. I’m 65 and led a very active career and leisure activities. It’s easier for me to show you where there is no pain. I’m able to make a script (20) last for three months. What is the draw to use these recreationally? Oxicontin/Oxicodone make me itch fiercely, so we have settled on Percocet. Same experience as the others, ok for pain, but getting high, not so much. Anyone with experienced?
Click to expand...

I agree. I have been prescribed OxyContin several times after surgery. Yes, it is effective for pain control, but no, I do not like the other effects of the drug on me. Though it makes me tend to nod out, I cannot actually sleep under its influence.

Each individual has a slightly different reaction to any given drug.
 
Rexedgar said:
I had major surgery about five years ago and was prescribed Oxicontin to use during recovery. On days when the pain was elevated, I would take two, (dose was 5 mg). It helped with the physical pain, but the mental high was not something enjoyable. I still am able to keep a few on hand for break through days. I’m 65 and led a very active career and leisure activities. It’s easier for me to show you where there is no pain. I’m able to make a script (20) last for three months. What is the draw to use these recreationally? Oxicontin/Oxicodone make me itch fiercely, so we have settled on Percocet. Same experience as the others, ok for pain, but getting high, not so much. Anyone with experienced?
Click to expand...


I found a natural herb called Kratom, works well on some types of pain, less so on others. It's legal in many states, but not all states.

Nice thing about it, when you're new to it, it will give you a buzz similar to a vicodin or percocet, but after awhile, the high just fades.

Thing is, it's mildly addictive, more than coffee, but less than cigarettes, and less than opioids. some use it to help them kick opioids.

If you look into it, you can buy crushed leaf powder by the kilo, and use it to make tea, lasts several months, and a kilo goes for about $100 ( some charge way more, you just have to shop around, I found a supplier for $80 a kilo )

If you get a cold, it works very much like Theraflu does, it knocks out the chills/fever/sinuses, etc., really well. I haven't detected any side effects. I had a check up, and my liver & kidneys are in excellent shape, so no problem there, either.

I take it along with another prescription drug for chronic headaches and back pain. I find the two together work better than each separately.

You have to experiment to find what works for you, everyone is different.

BTW, it tastes bad. But, I have a pink grapefruit tree, and a minneola tree ( a tangelo/orange ) in my back yard, and I squeeze the juice of one of these into the glass of kratom tea, which makes it a lot more palatable, or you can buy some vitamin water, that's mildly sweet --- you have to do something to the drink, or it's taste will not be enjoyable.

Some people don't make tea, they put a couple of tea spoons of the stuff right into a smoothie, which really disguises the taste, you can't even taste it at all. Thing is, I did this to begin with, and after a few days, my stool turned a dark green. Don't know what it means, but it was starting to cause constipation, so I switched to tea, and that eliminated the problem .

Another thing, the dose. The more you weigh, the more you need. Also, if you get drowsy or real tipsy, you've taken too much. If you feel nothing, you've taken too little. The right dose is that dose which gives you a nice "lift", a slight surge in energy, it's subtle, but nice. You have to experiment to determine the right dose. I gave a 2 grams to my GF, and it made her tipsy, she only weights 125lbs. I told her that must have been too much, it's not supposed to make you tipsy like alcohol. So, keep that in mind if you decide to try it.

Just like anything else, it's not for everyone.
 
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OscarLevant said:
I found a natural herb called Kratom, works well on some types of pain, less so on others. It's legal in many states, but not all states.

Nice thing about it, when you're new to it, it will give you a buzz similar to a vicodin or percocet, but after awhile, the high just fades.

Thing is, it's mildly addictive, more than coffee, but less than cigarettes, and less than opioids. some use it to help them kick opioids.

If you look into it, you can buy crushed leaf powder by the kilo, and use it to make tea, lasts several months, and a kilo goes for about $100 ( some charge way more, you just have to shop around, I found a supplier for $80 a kilo )

If you get a cold, it works very much like Theraflu does, it knocks out the chills/fever/sinuses, etc., really well. I haven't detected any side effects. I had a check up, and my liver & kidneys are in excellent shape, so no problem there, either.

I take it along with another prescription drug for chronic headaches and back pain. I find the two together work better than each separately.

You have to experiment to find what works for you, everyone is different.

BTW, it tastes bad. But, I have a pink grapefruit tree, and a minneola tree ( a tangelo/orange ) in my back yard, and I squeeze the juice of one of these into the glass of kratom tea, which makes it a lot more palatable, or you can buy some vitamin water, that's mildly sweet --- you have to do something to the drink, or it's taste will not be enjoyable.

Some people don't make tea, they put a couple of tea spoons of the stuff right into a smoothie, which really disguises the taste, you can't even taste it at all. Thing is, I did this to begin with, and after a few days, my stool turned a dark green. Don't know what it means, but it was starting to cause constipation, so I switched to tea, and that eliminated the problem .

Another thing, the dose. The more you weigh, the more you need. Also, if you get drowsy or real tipsy, you've taken too much. If you feel nothing, you've taken too little. The right dose is that dose which gives you a nice "lift", a slight surge in energy, it's subtle, but nice. You have to experiment to determine the right dose. I gave a 2 grams to my GF, and it made her tipsy, she only weights 125lbs. I told her that must have been too much, it's not supposed to make you tipsy like alcohol. So, keep that in mind if you decide to try it.

Just like anything else, it's not for everyone.
Click to expand...

Kratom is addictive & may be banned by the FDA.

A legal high that will take your mind off your problem is gabapentin, which is an inexpensive generic drug originally intended as an anti-convulsant drug for epileptics. In larger than usual doses (2 grams or so) it produces a mild euphoria that lasts for hours.
 
JacksinPA said:
Kratom is addictive & may be banned by the FDA.

A legal high that will take your mind off your problem is gabapentin, which is an inexpensive generic drug originally intended as an anti-convulsant drug for epileptics. In larger than usual doses (2 grams or so) it produces a mild euphoria that lasts for hours.
Click to expand...

True, Kratom is addictive, a little stronger than coffee, but not as strong as vicodin. I don't take it for the euphoria, it's pretty much worn off since I've been using it for a few years now.

My mom takes gabapentin, for reasons I know not what. I'm not going to take any prescription drug without a prescription.
 
JacksinPA said:
Kratom is addictive & may be banned by the FDA.

A legal high that will take your mind off your problem is gabapentin, which is an inexpensive generic drug originally intended as an anti-convulsant drug for epileptics. In larger than usual doses (2 grams or so) it produces a mild euphoria that lasts for hours.
Click to expand...

You have to take large doses for a sustained period of time to get addicted to Kratom and even then, withdrawal is generally quite mild (anxiety, sweating, etc, for an evening or two).


I believe the study they tested it with tracked people who consumed at least 28g of dry powder a day for six months. Roughly 1/3 had moderate withdrawal symptoms (on whatever scale they happened to use for the study), about 1/3 had mild, and another 1/3 didn't notice anything.

Note: 28g/day is WAY more than someone would take for pain control. These were recreational users and/or people seeking to taper/stop opioids. What people do for pain control they probably won't be taking it every day. He mentioned 2g. I wouldn't expect the vast majority of people to even notice a mental effect at that dose.

Bear in mind, the context is alternatives to a high-powered opiate (Oxycodone), so ... :shrug:






If they FDA bans Kratom, they'll just push a lot of people - legit pain patients and people getting off serious opiods - right back onto opioids. Hope the idiots don't do it, but then, idiocy defines our drug policies....
 
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