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Reverse Mortgage.

My mom and step-dad got one of those without asking any of us kids. They are now close to needing to move into a place where they can have some level of elder care and we are trying to figure out how to get them out of it. They leave the house - they lose it. We need to sell it and pay off the rev. mort. Without them "moving out". I think we have a decent scheme, but it's going to be a logistical mess.

Be VERY careful. Personally, I consider them bad in most instances.

yep that is going to be messy it is going to depend on the size of the loan verse the value and selling price.

if the loan is more than the value you are still on the hook for up to 95% of the difference.
from what i have seen.

It is really going to depend on the interest (vartiable rates) and how long they have had.

They are horrible. They rob people of their main source of wealth which is their home.
 
YOu evidently don't know what an appeal to authority is. An appeal to authority argument would be if i had said Person X knows more about it than you and person X is not an expert in this field.

Using an authority as evidence in your argument when the authority is not really an authority on the facts relevant to the argument.

so you fail here. Dave Ramsey is an expert in this field.
He was a 1982 graduate of the College of Business Administration at University of Tennessee, Knoxville with a degree in Finance and Real Estate.
so, your appeal was to dave ramsey's authority as a UT undergraduate
color me impressed



I already posted the .gov link you should read the thread.
please share that .gov site
 
if requested, you will normally be provided 12 months to repay the outstanding reverse mortgage to avoid a foreclosure by the mortgage holder
in that time you should be able to sell the home and pay the balance - if there is equity available in the home

They have 6 months, I believe. We need some of the funds from the sale (excess equity that should exceed payoff money) to get them into the retirement place. They have more books and "stuff" than a library and curio shop. It's going to take us a month to clear it, then we need to clean, re-carpet, paint and whatever else before putting it on the market. The market there is currently "cool".
 
They have 6 months, I believe. We need some of the funds from the sale (excess equity that should exceed payoff money) to get them into the retirement place. They have more books and "stuff" than a library and curio shop. It's going to take us a month to clear it, then we need to clean, re-carpet, paint and whatever else before putting it on the market. The market there is currently "cool".

if you request the additional six months, my understanding is it will normally be approved so that you can clear the debt
the mortgage holder would want to avoid the expense involved in a foreclosure. also, a foreclosure/distress sale will normally result in a recovery much less than a fair market transaction, so it is in their interest to offer a reasonable amount of time for you to complete a sale
 
if you request the additional six months, my understanding is it will normally be approved so that you can clear the debt
the mortgage holder would want to avoid the expense involved in a foreclosure. also, a foreclosure/distress sale will normally result in a recovery much less than a fair market transaction, so it is in their interest to offer a reasonable amount of time for you to complete a sale

I hope you are right. The 2 people I talked to at the company seemed somewhat understanding, but they didn't offer any breaks. We won't allow it to go into foreclosure or distress. I'm really more annoyed that my mom and stepdad did this without thinking it through enough or talking to anyone. This situation could have been predicted. They are 88 years old.
 
so, your appeal was to dave ramsey's authority as a UT undergraduate
color me impressed




please share that .gov site

no he has a degree in finance and real estate.
that makes him an expert.

i already have go read.
 
I hope you are right. The 2 people I talked to at the company seemed somewhat understanding, but they didn't offer any breaks. We won't allow it to go into foreclosure or distress. I'm really more annoyed that my mom and stepdad did this without thinking it through enough or talking to anyone. This situation could have been predicted. They are 88 years old.

in all fairness to your folks, they obviously no longer need the house, now going into a care facility

it was quite probably the right decision for them
 
in all fairness to your folks, they obviously no longer need the house, now going into a care facility

it was quite probably the right decision for them

Yeah, it's a 3 level townhouse. We just got 2 stair lifts installed last year because they have hip issues. I hope we can resell that, even at a loss. It IS removable.

They are reasonably healthy, but are fading physically and mentally. We want them somewhere that they get a little more monitoring. None of us are local.
 
Yeah, IMO it really is a last resort type of move. One needs to be desperate before doing something like this. Unfortunately there are a lot of desperate people out there.

Reverse mortgages are not necessarily a last resort move, but can be a useful tool for those elderly who have high equity, a shortage of cash, and a desire to remain in their present home. Like any investment the pros and cons must be weighed on an individual basis. The pros are the homeowner gets the use of the home and possibly some cash for living expenses. The cons are you are responsible for the upkeep, insurance, and taxes. Fail that responsibility and you lose your home. This is or can be a major problem. There are no restrictions on how you spend the money. Too many people are not willing or able to assume the discipline to plan ahead. Inheritability is generally not affected as this is not a sale but a mortgage and is always a first position note, and so is usable only by homeowners with no present mortgage.

Justabubba's post is mostly accurate IMO.
 
Reverse mortgages are not necessarily a last resort move, but can be a useful tool for those elderly who have high equity, a shortage of cash, and a desire to remain in their present home. Like any investment the pros and cons must be weighed on an individual basis. The pros are the homeowner gets the use of the home and possibly some cash for living expenses. The cons are you are responsible for the upkeep, insurance, and taxes. Fail that responsibility and you lose your home. This is or can be a major problem. There are no restrictions on how you spend the money. Too many people are not willing or able to assume the discipline to plan ahead. Inheritability is generally not affected as this is not a sale but a mortgage and is always a first position note, and so is usable only by homeowners with no present mortgage.

Justabubba's post is mostly accurate IMO.

Well shortage of cash with only one's home as an asset in one's retirement years = last resort/desperate to me.
 
I don't think it is correct or fair to refer to reverse mortgages as rip offs. To make matters simple, they are a way to sell your house for less than it is worth while being allowed to continue to live in it rent free for as long as you can. Since the reverse mortgage company takes the risk and enjoys the profit, it isn't good financial management. A better approach would be to sell the house and move to somewhere less expensive.

I've considered doing just that. My wife and I are old timers and live in a roomy 5 bedroom house. It is expensive and time consuming to maintain. The problem, of course, is that we like where we live. Perhaps in a few more years we will do something like that. I don't recommend a reverse mortgage for most people.

It's not a way to sell your house. It's an equity mortgage due and payable when you no longer use your home.
 
It's not a way to sell your house. It's an equity mortgage due and payable when you no longer use your home.

Sorry for trying to simplify it.
 
Yeah, it's a 3 level townhouse. We just got 2 stair lifts installed last year because they have hip issues. I hope we can resell that, even at a loss. It IS removable.

They are reasonably healthy, but are fading physically and mentally. We want them somewhere that they get a little more monitoring. None of us are local.

Sorry to hear that. Went through the decline and death of my Grandparents recently, its a tough thing to go through, good luck.
 
Yeah, it's a 3 level townhouse. We just got 2 stair lifts installed last year because they have hip issues. I hope we can resell that, even at a loss. It IS removable.

They are reasonably healthy, but are fading physically and mentally. We want them somewhere that they get a little more monitoring. None of us are local.

$8M monthly is what the local facility charges for my mother-in-law
most are only there because they qualify for medicaid
only a small percentage of our population in retirement can afford $96M annually as room and board. double that for your parents
if they fall in that category, but have some assets, you may want to become acquainted with the medicaid requirements. maybe have a chat with a medicaid staffer without having specific financial information with you. just to learn the process medicaid will follow to examine their eligibility
there is a 'spend down' imposition, which says to be eligible one can have no more than $2000 in cash/equivalents
if they were able to salt something away, you might want to do something with it before the medicaid five-year lookback period
one possible way to give you that time would be to hire someone to live in their home with them with a stipend to compensate them for caring for your folks
just throwing something out there - no two cases are the same
 
more bogus advice
if the person is a widow with a $1000 monthly security check to live on and she has a mortgage free home it makes good sense to secure a reverse mortgage
now she will have (probably) more than $100,000 available to her from the reverse mortgage proceeds to supplement that monthly social security check
in effect, she just took out a home equity loan that she will never have to pay back
in the meantime she is still living in her home
and she only has to pay taxes, insurance, and maintenance ... as she would living in any other home
only now she has no mortgage or rent to pay and she has a substantial sum available to her to pay things that her social security check alone would not allow her to afford

Did you read the articles? By your response I think not. So what is bogus? Your response.

Of course there is always an exception to any advice.
Using your example , What IF, this widow even with the reverse mortgage fails to upkeep the property (home), gets behind on insurance and property taxes. The company holding the reverse mortgage can foreclose on the property and kick her out. I bet the majority of RM companies have that in the fine print.

If a person looks into a rm, understands what it will and won't do, in some cases it is a good deal. In some cases it is not.
 
share with us the other assets you insisted can be made available to the mortgage holder to retire the reverse mortgage debt

Depends on the type of loan. If its FHA backed then its a non-recourse type loan and the property secures the loan. If its something other than FHA non-recourse type loan, then recourse could be involved, in which case other assets may be involved in settling the debt.
 
so, your appeal was to dave ramsey's authority as a UT undergraduate
color me impressed




please share that .gov site

Dave Ramsey as an authority on financial matters is very impressive and one would be wise to at the least consider what advise he gives. In my circles his reputation precedes him, and it is an excellent one. I find his advise to be spot on most times with only niggling at small details and timing issues. I use much of his advise in financial matters personally. I don't do debt, with the sole exception being business debt where the debt is essentially a short term silent partnership.

As far as reverse mortgagees go, selling ones house is usually the better option, even with rent taken into account. Much depends on the "equity" in the home. There ARE exceptions however. As always numbers and situational considerations must be taken into account before decisions are made.
 
$8M monthly is what the local facility charges for my mother-in-law
most are only there because they qualify for medicaid
only a small percentage of our population in retirement can afford $96M annually as room and board. double that for your parents
if they fall in that category, but have some assets, you may want to become acquainted with the medicaid requirements. maybe have a chat with a medicaid staffer without having specific financial information with you. just to learn the process medicaid will follow to examine their eligibility
there is a 'spend down' imposition, which says to be eligible one can have no more than $2000 in cash/equivalents
if they were able to salt something away, you might want to do something with it before the medicaid five-year lookback period
one possible way to give you that time would be to hire someone to live in their home with them with a stipend to compensate them for caring for your folks
just throwing something out there - no two cases are the same

Yeah, thanks.

We are actually working through the "spend down" with an uncle on my wife's side. We actually had to use a lawyer to figure everything out. The process isn't complete yet, but things seem to be proceeding according to plan.
 
Sound advice:

"You still pay for property taxes, insurance and the costs of maintaining the home. The lender can foreclose if you don’t. Also, because interest accrues over the life of the loan, your debt can ultimately exceed the value of your home."

"The U.S. Government Accountability Office last year found dozens of misleading marketing claims about reverse mortgages in materials distributed by several large lenders. We’ve already debunked the first two:
Lifetime income – Income from a reverse mortgage stops if you sell your house or move.
Never lose your home – You can lose your home if you can’t afford to pay taxes, insurance, or maintain the home.
Never owe more than the value of your home – If your loan exceeds the value of your home, you or your heirs will have to make up the difference if the home isn’t sold when the loan is due.
False implications that a reverse mortgage is a government benefit rather than a loan – Some lenders even use government logos to convince you to buy.
If you or anyone you know is considering a reverse mortgage—stop now! If money is short, cut back on your lifestyle. Sell your house and get something more affordable to free up money for your needs."

https://www.daveramsey.com/blog/the-ugly-truth-of-reverse-mortgages

"“Always explore all other sources of income first before tapping into your home equity,” advises Cook. “Liquidate your portfolio and cut down on your living expenses. If you still don’t have enough, a reverse mortgage may make sense.”"


Reverse Mortgage -- What Is It, How Does It Work, And More | Bankrate.com

https://www.hud.gov/program_offices/housing/sfh/hecm/rmtopten

imo, reverse mortgage is a bad idea. If you need more money in retirement, change your lifestyle, downsize and sell your home. Use that money to live.
The heirs, or the estate? BIG difference. You may be left something in a will, but it's not yours until the estate is settled. Too many people don't understand this aspect.

That being said, from what I have read, I would be very leery of reverse mortgages. I suppose they're a good deal for some people, but I suspect that number is pretty small.
 
Hi to all,
I have a question.

Do any of you have a reverse mortgage. If so, please share your experience.
Thank You,
Richard.

I'l share my experience. I had a friend that was dying from lung cancer. A bank representative came to his hospice bed and got him to sign a reverse mortage to "pay his hospital bills" (he was 81 and on Medicare). He died about a month later and the bank charged his estate $25,000 to remove their lien even though they never paid out a single dime. Reverse mortgages are nothing but a banker scam to cheat you out of your money.
 
I'l share my experience. I had a friend that was dying from lung cancer. A bank representative came to his hospice bed and got him to sign a reverse mortage to "pay his hospital bills" (he was 81 and on Medicare). He died about a month later and the bank charged his estate $25,000 to remove their lien even though they never paid out a single dime. Reverse mortgages are nothing but a banker scam to cheat you out of your money.

I had an elderly neighbor whose daughter had to threaten to sue the bank...he had dementia and the bank took advantage of that. He had a lady friend living with him who was worse. Last I heard she was put in a home and his daughter moved in with him.
 
I used to like Tom Selleck before he started shilling for reverse mortgages from a multi million dollar apartment far above the rest of the city.
 
If you are an elderly person and you have a paid off home but feel you need supplemental income, you may as well sell your home, downsize, and then use those funds to invest in some kind of active stock portfolio/mutual funds. At least then your money has a chance of growing and you can either draw money out of it or be paid dividends. And for those of you who balk at the idea of selling the house you have made your home and probably spent upwards of twenty to thirty years paying off, the reason I say "may as well" is because the way so many reverse mortgages work, you will end up losing it anyway, even if you are still alive and residing in the home.

Speaking solely from my experience as a California bankruptcy lawyer, and though I am generally loath to do this, I would issue the blanket advice of never getting a reverse mortgage. Not unless your life literally depends on it. Because here in California, if you fail to maintain homeowners insurance or if you fail to maintain your property taxes, you will instantly be in default and the reverse mortgage lender can move to foreclose upon the property. That is to say nothing of other vagaries of other state's reverse mortgage lenders who may be even more rapacious and predatory. The only way to win a bargain with the Devil is to not sign your soul away. The only way to profit from a reverse mortgage is to never take one out against your home.
 
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If you are an elderly person and you have a paid off home but feel you need supplemental income, you may as well sell your home, downsize, and then use those funds to invest in some kind of active stock portfolio/mutual funds.
that only makes sense if your home is massively overbuilt for your current needs AND if the closing costs of two transactions (first selling, then buying), is not significant ... which for most seniors needing the income from a reverse mortgage is unlikely
otherwise, those transaction costs will eat into the gains of downsizing. and that is before the pain and expense of moving into a new, smaller home
if your desire in retirement is to reside in a tiny home, then consider the above advice. if not, such advice is only worth what you paid for it
At least then your money has a chance of growing and you can either draw money out of it or be paid dividends.
now compare that with the retiree staying in their paid-for home, and realizing about 80% of its value in cash. paying NO mortgage on said large income. that (estimated - depends on age) 80% of the home value will likely exceed what one would realize from downsizing. and those funds can then be invested, in a way suggested above, or in a more prudent fashion
And for those of you who balk at the idea of selling the house you have made your home and probably spent upwards of twenty to thirty years paying off, the reason I say "may as well" is because the way so many reverse mortgages work, you will end up losing it anyway, even if you are still alive and residing in the home.
absolutely bull****. but prove me wrong with data supporting your allegation. i will speak to why below
Speaking solely from my experience as a California bankruptcy lawyer, and though I am generally loath to do this, I would issue the blanket advice of never getting a reverse mortgage.
there are instances when a reverse mortgage makes little sense, but for a homeowner who needs a greater income than what is available from present social security, and possibly retirement/savings, a reverse mortgage probably makes a lot of sense. remain in your home at no cost and realize about 80% of its value in cash, WITHOUT HAVING TO PAY THAT INCOME BACK. where else can one realize 80% of the value of a home in cash and never have to repay those monies
Not unless your life literally depends on it.
i would revise that to say if continuing your present LIFESTYLE depends on it, then a reverse mortgage is often the best option available to the senior homeowner
Because here in California, if you fail to maintain homeowners insurance or if you fail to maintain your property taxes, you will instantly be in default and the reverse mortgage lender can move to foreclose upon the property.
i would have thought an attorney would recognize that any mortgagor would be obligated by the mortgagee to maintain insurance on the collateral securing the loan. why would the senior home owner, likely beyond the age to resume a career, not want to be insured against the loss of their residence. and as to unpaid ad valorem taxes, the tax collector will foreclose for nonpayment just as would a lender. the point being, the potential fears addressed by this "bankruptcy lawyer" are illegitimate since those taxes and insurance obligations would be borne by any rational homeowner. but significantly, the senior homeowner who has realized 80% of the value in cash on the home they are still living in, will certainly have the means to pay both taxes and insurance premiums from said reverse mortgage windfall
That is to say nothing of other vagaries of other state's reverse mortgage lenders who may be even more rapacious and predatory.
the licensing restrictions on reverse mortgage brokers are more rigid than those brokers who write conventional mortgages. possibly causing them to be more skilled, on average. and no rational person would close a mortgage, even a reverse mortgage, without the advice of counsel. in my state that counsel's signature is required at closing, as is the mortgagee's execution showing that they have been fully informed about the unique aspects of the closing reverse mortgage
The only way to win a bargain with the Devil is to not sign your soul away. The only way to profit from a reverse mortgage is to never take one out against your home.
again, bull****
if a senior homeowner is being strained financially due to the reduced income of retirement, the reverse mortgage is likely going to prove a very adequate solution to their problem

the persons who have something to lose from reverse mortgages are the heirs. that reverse mortgage provides the value of the home to the seniors to spend on themselves, thereby depriving the heirs of that home equity upon the demise of the seniors residing in that home
 
$8M monthly is what the local facility charges for my mother-in-law
most are only there because they qualify for medicaid
only a small percentage of our population in retirement can afford $96M annually as room and board. double that for your parents
if they fall in that category, but have some assets, you may want to become acquainted with the medicaid requirements. maybe have a chat with a medicaid staffer without having specific financial information with you. just to learn the process medicaid will follow to examine their eligibility
there is a 'spend down' imposition, which says to be eligible one can have no more than $2000 in cash/equivalents
if they were able to salt something away, you might want to do something with it before the medicaid five-year lookback period
one possible way to give you that time would be to hire someone to live in their home with them with a stipend to compensate them for caring for your folks
just throwing something out there - no two cases are the same

By $8M I assume you meant eight THOUSAND?
Wow, that is a huge fee.
You couldn't possibly mean eight MILLION...which is what I thought "M" stands for.
 
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