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Automated trucking, a technical milestone that could disrupt hundreds of thousands of jobs, hits the

Slartibartfast

Slartibartfast

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Automated trucking, a technical milestone that could disrupt hundreds of thousands of jobs, hits the road - 60 Minutes - CBS News

...snip ...

ompanies have been quietly testing their prototypes on public roads. Right now, there's a high-stakes, high-speed race pitting the usual suspects, Google and Tesla and other global tech firms, against small start-ups smelling opportunity. The driverless semi will convulse the trucking sector and the two million American drivers who turn a key and maneuver their big rig every day. And the winners of this derby, they may be poised to make untold billions, they'll change the U.S. transportation grid and they will emerge as the new kings of the road.

It's one of the great touchstones of Americana: the romance and possibility of the open road. All hail the 18-wheeler hugging those asphalt ribbons, transporting all of our stuff across the fruited plains, from sea to shining sea. Though we may not give it a second thought when we click that free shipping icon, truckers move 70% of the nation's goods. But trucking cut a considerably different figure on a humid Sunday last summer on the Florida turnpike. Starsky Robotics, a tech startup, may have been driving in the right lane, but they passed the competition with 35,000 pounds of steel thundering down a busy highway with nobody behind the wheel. The test was a milestone. Starsky was the first company to put a truck on an open highway without a human on board. Everyone else in the game with the know-how keeps a warm body in the cab as backup. For now, anyway. If you didn't hear about this, you're not alone; in Jacksonville, we talked to Jeff Widdows, his son Tanner, Linda Allen and Eric Richardson - all truckers; and all astonished to learn how far this technology has come.
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Fascinating article on how far along automated trick has come recently.
 
tacomancer said:
Automated trucking, a technical milestone that could disrupt hundreds of thousands of jobs, hits the road - 60 Minutes - CBS News



Fascinating article on how far along automated trick has come recently.
Click to expand...

Self driving cars will also put taxi/uber drivers away, and self driving buses will do the same with bus drivers.

This is indeed going to be a big problem. I got nuthin' in terms of solutions. That's why I'm not running for president. I don't envy the people doing so.
 
ataraxia said:
Self driving cars will also put taxi/uber drivers away, and self driving buses will do the same with bus drivers.

This is going to be a big problem.
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Indeed, we will eventually find out how prescient Andrew Yang is.
 
tacomancer said:
Automated trucking, a technical milestone that could disrupt hundreds of thousands of jobs, hits the road - 60 Minutes - CBS News



Fascinating article on how far along automated trick has come recently.
Click to expand...

Here is the question though: I see this as an absolute nightmare in terms of liability for the manufacturers of these trucks unless they seek and obtain special legislation protecting them from lawsuit.

Here is what I mean. Imagine if one of these truck's AI malfunctions and plows into a schoolbus killing two dozen children. Well, before, with driver error you sue the negligent driver, their employer, and their insurance company for any damage, injury or death the driver caused. And unless there was specific issue with the truck, where it was poorly designed or had a defect, the manufacturer was held blameless. Now, there would be no one to sue but the manufacturer. Any manufacturer would be one horrible accident from filing for bankruptcy.
 
Felis Leo said:
Here is the question though: I see this as an absolute nightmare in terms of liability for the manufacturers of these trucks unless they seek and obtain special legislation protecting them from lawsuit.

Here is what I mean. Imagine if one of these truck's AI malfunctions and plows into a schoolbus killing two dozen children. Well, before, with driver error you sue the negligent driver, their employer, and their insurance company for any damage, injury or death the driver caused. And unless there was specific issue with the truck, where it was poorly designed or had a defect, the manufacturer was held blameless. Now, there would be no one to sue but the manufacturer. Any manufacturer would be one horrible accident from filing for bankruptcy.
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There won’t be any money left by then.........
 
Felis Leo said:
Here is the question though: I see this as an absolute nightmare in terms of liability for the manufacturers of these trucks unless they seek and obtain special legislation protecting them from lawsuit.

Here is what I mean. Imagine if one of these truck's AI malfunctions and plows into a schoolbus killing two dozen children. Well, before, with driver error you sue the negligent driver, their employer, and their insurance company for any damage, injury or death the driver caused. And unless there was specific issue with the truck, where it was poorly designed or had a defect, the manufacturer was held blameless. Now, there would be no one to sue but the manufacturer. Any manufacturer would be one horrible accident from filing for bankruptcy.
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In addition there’s the fact that driving is not all of what a truck driver does. There’s much more to the job then mere driving. To automate the job entirely you’d purchase so many systems that wages are cheaper.

There’s an assumption here that technology kills jobs, it doesn’t, it generates efficiency which leads to more employment
 
We have automated trucking. It is called a Freight Train.
 
My phone still can't even get voice to text right.
 
ataraxia said:
Self driving cars will also put taxi/uber drivers away, and self driving buses will do the same with bus drivers.

This is indeed going to be a big problem. I got nuthin' in terms of solutions. That's why I'm not running for president. I don't envy the people doing so.
Click to expand...

Yes, increasing prosperity is always a "big problem" for the political left.

tacomancer said:
Indeed, we will eventually find out how prescient Andrew Yang is.
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No, we'll find out that Yang was wrong, just like everyone else who has made similar doomsday predictions about automation, going all the way back to the Luddites.
 
tacomancer said:
Automated trucking, a technical milestone that could disrupt hundreds of thousands of jobs, hits the road - 60 Minutes - CBS News



Fascinating article on how far along automated trick has come recently.
Click to expand...

I don't want 40,000lbs of cargo without a driver on board when the computer decides to take a nap. I am an engineer and I know the limitations of the technology. It can be a driver assist aid, but the technology isn't mature enough to replace the driver completely. It's bad enough when a Tesla crashes and 2 people die because the driver was taking a nap or reading a newspaper but how many people will be killed or injured when it is an 80K+ pound truck with possibly hazardous cargo on a 6 lane highway when the technology limits of the computer driver are exceeded? I've not trusting of 100% computer controls where the is no driver to take over.

What happens to those drivers and their income?
 
Drawdown said:
We have automated trucking. It is called a Freight Train.
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Trains have engineers and conductors on board, plus central dispatch of that rail sector or division.
 
This form of automation will be a crushing blow to a lot of workers. However, it's coming, just as the automation of a lot of skilled jobs is coming. We're going to have to rethink our national model.
 
Lisa said:
Trains have engineers and conductors on board, plus central dispatch of that rail sector or division.
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Freight trains generally don't have conductors.
 
Drawdown said:
Freight trains generally don't have conductors.
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That is news to the Union Pacific, BNSF, Norfolk Southern and other railroads.

These jobs directly lead to becoming a Conductor and/or a Locomotive Engineer, where you will have the rare opportunity to work onboard a moving locomotive. The Conductor is responsible for the train, the freight and the crew. The Locomotive Engineer actually operates the locomotive.
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The Chicago Tribune in June reported Union Pacific is offering $10,000 hiring bonuses for Chicago-area train conductors and engineers, and $15,000 for diesel technicians. BNSF Railway has advertised a $20,000 incentive for a diesel technician job in the area, the Tribune said.

Conductors and engineers at the Decatur terminal said some applicants are turned off by the somewhat unsteady hours and the need to be on call 24 hours a day in case a shift needs to be covered on short notice.
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Helix said:
This form of automation will be a crushing blow to a lot of workers. However, it's coming, just as the automation of a lot of skilled jobs is coming. We're going to have to rethink our national model.
Click to expand...


It's not, or at least not in the way people on this board are thinking. There is a reason why we don't have self-flying planes yet ... despite autopilot.
 
Lisa said:
That is news to the Union Pacific, BNSF, Norfolk Southern and other railroads.
Click to expand...

The second person on a freight train carrying no passengers is typically a brakeman, not a conductor, and now that positive train control is being deployed, that will be reduced to a 1 person crew, and occasionally they will experiment with zero person crews until they plow through the side of a bus stalled on the tracks or something.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
In addition there’s the fact that driving is not all of what a truck driver does. There’s much more to the job then mere driving. To automate the job entirely you’d purchase so many systems that wages are cheaper.
There’s an assumption here that technology kills jobs, it doesn’t, it generates efficiency which leads to more employment
Click to expand...


We are a long, a very long way off from driverless 18-wheelers. This driverless trucking has been coming up on a regular basis for a few years now (can't remember when my husband first mentioned it), but I found an article from 2016 - link below. It might be feasible on a long stretch of "deserted" interstate but not for the usual delivery routes. I hear Australia has those long, "deserted" highways ...

https://www.fleetowner.com/technolo...less-trucks-where-theyll-work-where-they-wont
 
Barnacle said:
We are a long, a very long way off from driverless 18-wheelers. This driverless trucking has been coming up on a regular basis for a few years now (can't remember when my husband first mentioned it), but I found an article from 2016 - link below. It might be feasible on a long stretch of "deserted" interstate but not for the usual delivery routes. I hear Australia has those long, "deserted" highways ...

Driverless trucks: Where they’ll work, where they won’t | Fleet Owner
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If you do away with the driver, you do away with your scapegoat for accidents :2razz:
 
Barnacle said:
It's not, or at least not in the way people on this board are thinking. There is a reason why we don't have self-flying planes yet ... despite autopilot.
Click to expand...

It is coming. I watch the progress every day at work.
 
Drawdown said:
The second person on a freight train carrying no passengers is typically a brakeman, not a conductor, and now that positive train control is being deployed, that will be reduced to a 1 person crew, and occasionally they will experiment with zero person crews until they plow through the side of a bus stalled on the tracks or something.
Click to expand...

The position of brakeman was eliminated years ago when the caboose was dropped. trains now utilize a flashing rear end device, or other colorful names given to it by railroad employees.

There are times when there is a 3rd person in the cab of the locomotive but those are trainers or trainees.

Becoming a Train Conductor

If you do well with your switchperson or brakeperson job, you may eventually be promoted to the position of conductor. Conductors work on the train itself, along with the engineer. Most engineers start off as conductors, so if you want to work as a train engineer, this is an important step.

The train conductor is responsible for the freight and crew. They supervise those in the train crew, inspect trains prior to departure, review instructions from dispatchers and yardmasters and make sure the train stays safe while in operation. To become a conductor, usually, you'll need to go through a one- to three-month on-the-job training period although some smaller railroads send conductors to courses taught at local facilities or community colleges. After completing your training, you'll need to be certified by the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA).
Click to expand...
 
Outlook said:
I’m old fashioned. I would feel better if there was someone behind the wheel.
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That's actually true of planes too. The technology to just convert all commercial airlines to drones operated remotely is here. We could make the transition now. It would cut down the need for live human pilots tremendously. But how many people would want to get on a plane with no actual pilot on board?
 
I could see a middle ground, where driver centers outside cities, place drivers in the trucks for the last few urban miles.
The long empty stretches between cities could be automated.
One of the issues, is that automation requires that the physical equipment be in tip top shape.
When the software says slow down, it expects the physical equipment to "slow down"
It would be interesting how the software would respond to a tire blow out, but these are real possibilities.
Anyone who has driver on the interstate much has seen the 4 rubber skid marks, veering to the edge of the road,
this is a failure on the 18 wheeler positive break system, the breaks are on unless air pressure is applied to take them off,
if they loose pressure, the breaks go back to the on position. If they loose pressure at 70 mph, the trailer is stopping, the tractor
better do so also! I am sure they test for this, but the automation cannot get out and reattach the air line, or fix the break.
 
I see the big problem being safety in unusual situations. Let's say a pallet flies off a truck into the road. A trooper gets out of his car & is trying to warn & direct traffic around the hazard. I think a self-driving system that could handle that kind of real situation will be out of reach for some time.
 
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