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Human Evolution

KevinKohler

KevinKohler

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Pretty much all the creatures in the animal kingdom have evolved over the course of millions of years, billions of generations...to more easily exist within their specific environments.

There are lizards who can absorb and store water in their skin...useful if you live in the desert. Arctics mammals change fur colors with the seasons. Jack rabbits have adapted to a different environment, and therefore have dramatically different traits than rabbits most anywhere else. Etc.

But not humans. There is virtually no place on earth where we can exist comfortably without clothes, shelter, fire, etc. The argument is made that our intellect compensates for this...but that does not hold true with the theory of evolution. Due to a lifespan that exceeds most animals on this planet, our evolution is slower...and yet, we don't have fur, at least not enough to survive cold and wet conditions, which is anything bellow 75 degrees F. Our skin is soft, easily damaged by exposure. We don't have claws or fangs. We're not fast or strong. And haven't been for all of recorded human history.

Which begs the question...where did we come from? Why have we not physically evolved to life on earth?
 
KevinKohler said:
Pretty much all the creatures in the animal kingdom have evolved over the course of millions of years, billions of generations...to more easily exist within their specific environments.

There are lizards who can absorb and store water in their skin...useful if you live in the desert. Arctics mammals change fur colors with the seasons. Jack rabbits have adapted to a different environment, and therefore have dramatically different traits than rabbits most anywhere else. Etc.

But not humans. There is virtually no place on earth where we can exist comfortably without clothes, shelter, fire, etc. The argument is made that our intellect compensates for this...but that does not hold true with the theory of evolution. Due to a lifespan that exceeds most animals on this planet, our evolution is slower...and yet, we don't have fur, at least not enough to survive cold and wet conditions, which is anything bellow 75 degrees F. Our skin is soft, easily damaged by exposure. We don't have claws or fangs. We're not fast or strong. And haven't been for all of recorded human history.

Which begs the question...where did we come from? Why have we not physically evolved to life on earth?
Click to expand...

Adapting the environment around them and creating tools, clothes, homes, etc....may very well be a form of adaptive evolution in itself.
 
KevinKohler said:
Which begs the question...where did we come from? Why have we not physically evolved to life on earth?
Click to expand...

The current theory, backed up with considerable fossil evidence is that we evolved from apes in the jungles of Africa. Then the jungles dried up and we found ourselves in the savanna. Survival pressures forced us out of the trees and into an upright posture. Fur became a liability as we developed the ability to run long distances and cool ourselves efficiently with sweat glands in the skin.

That's off the top of my head but there are lots of books that delve into the details.

I believe the theory is that all humanoids evolved from African apes. There were periodic migrations of various Homo ancestors to various regions of the Earth. Homo Sapiens migrated out of Africa last, and displaced any other surviving humanoid ancestors, including the Neanderthals.

p.s. I just found this article in Wikipedia about the "Savanna Hypothesis." Apparently it's been called into question. It seems that anthropology isn't my strong suit. :3oops: That's one of the things I love about science. It's always evolving--always new things to learn.

p.p.s. If you think we aren't evolved to live comfortably on Earth, try spending some time in San Diego. Or even better, Hawaii. :cool:
 
Last edited:
KevinKohler said:
Pretty much all the creatures in the animal kingdom have evolved over the course of millions of years, billions of generations...to more easily exist within their specific environments.

There are lizards who can absorb and store water in their skin...useful if you live in the desert. Arctics mammals change fur colors with the seasons. Jack rabbits have adapted to a different environment, and therefore have dramatically different traits than rabbits most anywhere else. Etc.

But not humans. There is virtually no place on earth where we can exist comfortably without clothes, shelter, fire, etc. The argument is made that our intellect compensates for this...but that does not hold true with the theory of evolution. Due to a lifespan that exceeds most animals on this planet, our evolution is slower...and yet, we don't have fur, at least not enough to survive cold and wet conditions, which is anything bellow 75 degrees F. Our skin is soft, easily damaged by exposure. We don't have claws or fangs. We're not fast or strong. And haven't been for all of recorded human history.

Which begs the question...where did we come from? Why have we not physically evolved to life on earth?
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, you are wrong about intellect. Basically, intellect stops evolution as we typically know it. With intelligence, we can make tools to do the work that say brute force or speed would require, like animals have evolved to. Also, we save people with bad genetics and diseases, so those people can reproduce. But its OK, since we can make devices that can make that person mobile, or see with glasses, or whatever. Humans don't need to adapt to temperatures physically, we have intelligence that allows us to live comfortably by using clothes or what not to overcome an issues we may struggle with physiologically

In fact, human intelligence speeds up what would have taken evolution many many years to do. For example, humans abilities to use tools, coordinate hunting, etc. Animals normally co-evolve, so improvments in humans would also lead to improvements of the animals in a traditional sense. Human intelligence sped up "evolution" in a sense, in that we didn't require millions of years of genetic mutations and selective pressure, just requires evolution of ideas, which comes much quiicker. Humans were so easily able to wipe out all the large mammals that used to exists so easily, because animals had no reason to fear humans, they were smaller, they didn't evolve a sense that they were trouble. ANd humans were so easily able to kill them with their techniques.

Humans keep sick kids alive, who in animal world may have died, so they can reproduce and pass on defective genes. So we have taken out selective pressures. So evolution in a traditional sense I believe is halted in humans. Not to say humans don't change, but its not like evolution of animals
 
KevinKohler said:
Pretty much all the creatures in the animal kingdom have evolved over the course of millions of years, billions of generations...to more easily exist within their specific environments.

There are lizards who can absorb and store water in their skin...useful if you live in the desert. Arctics mammals change fur colors with the seasons. Jack rabbits have adapted to a different environment, and therefore have dramatically different traits than rabbits most anywhere else. Etc.

But not humans. There is virtually no place on earth where we can exist comfortably without clothes, shelter, fire, etc. The argument is made that our intellect compensates for this...but that does not hold true with the theory of evolution. Due to a lifespan that exceeds most animals on this planet, our evolution is slower...and yet, we don't have fur, at least not enough to survive cold and wet conditions, which is anything bellow 75 degrees F. Our skin is soft, easily damaged by exposure. We don't have claws or fangs. We're not fast or strong. And haven't been for all of recorded human history.

Which begs the question...where did we come from? Why have we not physically evolved to life on earth?
Click to expand...

Is this a serious question because the answer seems awfully simple...
 
KevinKohler said:
Which begs the question...where did we come from? Why have we not physically evolved to life on earth?
Click to expand...

We already have overwhelming evidence of where "we" came from, and what makes you think we have not physically evolved?
 
KevinKohler said:
Pretty much all the creatures in the animal kingdom have evolved over the course of millions of years, billions of generations...to more easily exist within their specific environments.

There are lizards who can absorb and store water in their skin...useful if you live in the desert. Arctics mammals change fur colors with the seasons. Jack rabbits have adapted to a different environment, and therefore have dramatically different traits than rabbits most anywhere else. Etc.

But not humans. There is virtually no place on earth where we can exist comfortably without clothes, shelter, fire, etc. The argument is made that our intellect compensates for this...but that does not hold true with the theory of evolution. Due to a lifespan that exceeds most animals on this planet, our evolution is slower...and yet, we don't have fur, at least not enough to survive cold and wet conditions, which is anything bellow 75 degrees F. Our skin is soft, easily damaged by exposure. We don't have claws or fangs. We're not fast or strong. And haven't been for all of recorded human history.

Which begs the question...where did we come from? Why have we not physically evolved to life on earth?
Click to expand...

Tropical environments where we did not need cloathes and fur, the need for heat loss was more important. Also we have evolved a long time with tool use. A pointy stick makes us quite formidable. The use of fire makes us masters of most environments.
 
Sampson Simpson said:
I'm sorry, you are wrong about intellect. Basically, intellect stops evolution as we typically know it. With intelligence, we can make tools to do the work that say brute force or speed would require, like animals have evolved to. Also, we save people with bad genetics and diseases, so those people can reproduce. But its OK, since we can make devices that can make that person mobile, or see with glasses, or whatever. Humans don't need to adapt to temperatures physically, we have intelligence that allows us to live comfortably by using clothes or what not to overcome an issues we may struggle with physiologically

In fact, human intelligence speeds up what would have taken evolution many many years to do. For example, humans abilities to use tools, coordinate hunting, etc. Animals normally co-evolve, so improvments in humans would also lead to improvements of the animals in a traditional sense. Human intelligence sped up "evolution" in a sense, in that we didn't require millions of years of genetic mutations and selective pressure, just requires evolution of ideas, which comes much quiicker. Humans were so easily able to wipe out all the large mammals that used to exists so easily, because animals had no reason to fear humans, they were smaller, they didn't evolve a sense that they were trouble. ANd humans were so easily able to kill them with their techniques.

Humans keep sick kids alive, who in animal world may have died, so they can reproduce and pass on defective genes. So we have taken out selective pressures. So evolution in a traditional sense I believe is halted in humans. Not to say humans don't change, but its not like evolution of animals
Click to expand...

I understand that intellect stunts evolution, or possibly even directs that evolution in other ways...

But. It takes MILLIONS of years to evolve. We have not been using tools, wearing clothes, building fires, etc, for millions of years.

So. How did we survive?
 
If so, provide it.
 
KevinKohler said:
I understand that intellect stunts evolution, or possibly even directs that evolution in other ways...

But. It takes MILLIONS of years to evolve. We have not been using tools, wearing clothes, building fires, etc, for millions of years.

So. How did we survive?
Click to expand...

Modern humans are about 40,000 years old as a species. We, our ancestors have had fire for longer than that. Pointy sticks for much longer.

Evolution did not stop with the first club.
 
OrphanSlug said:
We already have overwhelming evidence of where "we" came from, and what makes you think we have not physically evolved?
Click to expand...

Yeah, the brain to me. is the end result of evolution. No further requirement for genetic changes to adapt to environment, just ability to think of tools to be made that can overcome the changing environment.
 
OrphanSlug said:
We already have overwhelming evidence of where "we" came from, and what makes you think we have not physically evolved?
Click to expand...

We evolved from apes in Africa, and migrated out.

As for us not physically evolved...tell you what. Join a naked and afraid Africa group, but DONT use tools or clothing, and get back to me on that.

The lion, hippo, and giraffe don't need clothes and tools.
 
KevinKohler said:
I understand that intellect stunts evolution, or possibly even directs that evolution in other ways...

But. It takes MILLIONS of years to evolve. We have not been using tools, wearing clothes, building fires, etc, for millions of years.

So. How did we survive?
Click to expand...

Millions of years to evolve to homo sapiens from common ancestors, but along the way there were common ancestors that had more "fur' so to speak to deal with the climate. Also, early humans evolved in warm climates, not cold, and could survive just fine. Also, intelligence came in steps among ancestors.
 
Tim the plumber said:
Modern humans are about 40,000 years old as a species. We, our ancestors have had fire for longer than that. Pointy sticks for much longer.

Evolution did not stop with the first club.
Click to expand...

200,000 years? 400,000 years? Average human lifespan was, what, 20-30 years? So, one generation per 20 years, divided by 400,000 years.

The math there doesn't support evolution, as we currently understand it.
 
KevinKohler said:
We evolved from apes in Africa, and migrated out.

As for us not physically evolved...tell you what. Join a naked and afraid Africa group, but DONT use tools or clothing, and get back to me on that.

The lion, hippo, and giraffe don't need clothes and tools.
Click to expand...

Chimps use tools.

We were using tools long long before we got to be anything like modern humans. Or at least our ancestors did.
 
KevinKohler said:
We evolved from apes in Africa, and migrated out.

As for us not physically evolved...tell you what. Join a naked and afraid Africa group, but DONT use tools or clothing, and get back to me on that.

The lion, hippo, and giraffe don't need clothes and tools.
Click to expand...

Go read my post again... slowly.
 
KevinKohler said:
We evolved from apes in Africa, and migrated out.

As for us not physically evolved...tell you what. Join a naked and afraid Africa group, but DONT use tools or clothing, and get back to me on that.

The lion, hippo, and giraffe don't need clothes and tools.
Click to expand...

Why would you take away our genetic advantage over the animals by claiming people should not use tools. Or not use intelligence. Animals are far stronger than humans, but we ultimately control them. Because of our intelligence.

What evolutionary advantage is there for humans to be as strong as animals? There is not one. Since we can use our intelligence to survive animal attacks, and even more so, to completely control animals. So humans don't need to fight animals one on one, we have intelligence to either avoid them, or use tools to protect humans. S

Also, higher intelligence utilizes a huge amount of energy. I believe like 25% of our caloric intake is to feed the brain. and the brain provided better advantage over muscle
 
KevinKohler said:
200,000 years? 400,000 years? Average human lifespan was, what, 20-30 years? So, one generation per 20 years, divided by 400,000 years.

The math there doesn't support evolution, as we currently understand it.
Click to expand...

Yes it does.

Evolution can be surprisingly rapid.

YouTube

7 generations to get from wild utterly unhandle-able vicious arctic fox to a pet who wants to be cuddled by humans. 7 generations to get back from there.

Imagine if Usain Bolt and the fastest 10 women in the world had babies. Then select the fastest of these to have babies with the fastest 10 women in the world. Repeat for 7 generations and you will find that the world records of today are being trampled on.
 
Sampson Simpson said:
Millions of years to evolve to homo sapiens from common ancestors, but along the way there were common ancestors that had more "fur' so to speak to deal with the climate. Also, early humans evolved in warm climates, not cold, and could survive just fine. Also, intelligence came in steps among ancestors.
Click to expand...

Every spot on the planet gets too cold for humans to survive without clothing, shelter, and fire.

No matter how I try to slice it, humans are an oddity, even with all the bio diversity on this planet.
 
Sampson Simpson said:
Humans keep sick kids alive, who in animal world may have died, so they can reproduce and pass on defective genes. So we have taken out selective pressures. So evolution in a traditional sense I believe is halted in humans. Not to say humans don't change, but its not like evolution of animals
Click to expand...

I even remember reading somewhere that our brains are smaller than earlier versions of homo sapiens. In the wild, we were constantly problem solving. Avoiding danger, finding food, etc. Now we sit around watching TV.
 
Tim the plumber said:

Chimps use tools.

We were using tools long long before we got to be anything like modern humans. Or at least our ancestors did.
Click to expand...

And they're also far stronger than us, covered in fur, etc.

Or are you saying, that as long as they rely on tools, over the next million years, they will physically become weaker, less hairy, etc?
 
KevinKohler said:
I understand that intellect stunts evolution, or possibly even directs that evolution in other ways...
But. It takes MILLIONS of years to evolve. We have not been using tools, wearing clothes, building fires, etc, for millions of years.
So. How did we survive?
Click to expand...

How do apes survive?

The use of fire apparently goes back about a million years. Tool-making goes back about 2.6 million years.

The lost of fur was doubtless the result of environmental pressures. Sweating out of hairless skin was a better adaptation for the Savanna or similar.
 
KevinKohler said:
Every spot on the planet gets too cold for humans to survive without clothing, shelter, and fire.

No matter how I try to slice it, humans are an oddity, even with all the bio diversity on this planet.
Click to expand...

There are lots of tropical socities where they don't wear cloathing much at all.
 
KevinKohler said:
200,000 years? 400,000 years? Average human lifespan was, what, 20-30 years? So, one generation per 20 years, divided by 400,000 years.
The math there doesn't support evolution, as we currently understand it.
Click to expand...

Yes it does. It's really one of the most solid theories in science. If your math appears to not support it, your math is wrong.

And the purpose of this thread becomes apparent. :roll:
 
Tim the plumber said:

Yes it does.

Evolution can be surprisingly rapid.

YouTube

7 generations to get from wild utterly unhandle-able vicious arctic fox to a pet who wants to be cuddled by humans. 7 generations to get back from there.

Imagine if Usain Bolt and the fastest 10 women in the world had babies. Then select the fastest of these to have babies with the fastest 10 women in the world. Repeat for 7 generations and you will find that the world records of today are being trampled on.
Click to expand...

That's the basis for eugenics...which, to my understabeing, was proven false.

7 generations...is this true? That changes my understanding of the subject...
 
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