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A huge breakthrough in battery technology and hopefully the end lithium-ion.

Sabre

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Ex-Navy officer turned inventor signs a multi-million deal to produce his electric car battery that will take drivers 1,500 miles without needing to charge

Not an idea but a reality, some highlights of the article:

A revolutionary new type of battery which, unlike those used in conventional electric cars, can also power buses, huge lorries (trucks) and even aircraft. What's more, it's far simpler and cheaper to make than the batteries currently in use in millions of electric vehicles around the world and, unlike them, it can easily be recycled.

Austin Electric, an engineering firm based in Essex, which now owns the rights to use the old Austin Motor Company logo, will begin putting thousands of them into electric vehicles next year.

Scientists had discovered that by dipping aluminium into a chemical solution known as an electrolyte, they could trigger a reaction between the metal and air to produce electricity. At that time the method was useless for commercial batteries because the electrolyte was extremely poisonous, and caustic.

After years of experimentation at his workshop in the Cornish village of Callington, Jackson's eureka moment came when he developed a new formula for the electrolyte that was neither poisonous nor caustic.

I've drunk it when demonstrating it to investors, so I can attest to the fact that it's harmless, Jackson says. Another problem with the 1960s version was that it worked only with totally pure aluminium, which is very expensive.

But Jackson's electrolyte works with much lower-purity metal, including recycled drinks cans. (Aluminum cans) The formula, which is top secret, is the key to his device.

And once an aluminium-air fuel cell is spent, it can be recycled very cheaply. According to Jackson, the cost of recycling means the running costs of an aluminium-air powered car would work out at 7p per mile. (about 10.5 cents US)

Drivers with cars that depend on lithium-ion have to charge their batteries from the mains when they are spent, a process that takes a long time, often overnight. But when an aluminium-air cell became exhausted, the driver would simply exchange it for a new one.

Instead of a vast network of charging points, all that is necessary are stores where cells can be swapped, just as people already swap propane gas bottles.

Swapping a battery, says Jackson, takes about 90 seconds.

Father-of-eight invents an electric car battery to take drivers 1,500 miles without charging it | Daily Mail Online

(Words in blue were added by me for clarification in US terms.)

That was just some highlights, much more info in the article and well worth the read.
 
I've drunk it when demonstrating it to investors, so I can attest to the fact that it's harmless, Jackson says.

That's not remotely sound. Must be joking.
 
Ex-Navy officer turned inventor signs a multi-million deal to produce his electric car battery that will take drivers 1,500 miles without needing to charge

Not an idea but a reality, some highlights of the article:







Father-of-eight invents an electric car battery to take drivers 1,500 miles without charging it | Daily Mail Online

(Words in blue were added by me for clarification in US terms.)

That was just some highlights, much more info in the article and well worth the read.

There were some troubling claims made in that article. One of them was that a replacement "miracle" battery for a Tesla would cost 5,000# (about $6,000) instead of the 30,000# (about $36,000) cost of its current (but rechargeable L-ion battery pack) and would allow for 1,500 miles of travel - that comes out to 3.33# (about $4) per mile as opposed to $0.125/mile for a conventional IC powered vehicle getting 20 mpg with gasoline cost at $2.50/gallon.

Either my math is wrong or this "miracle" non-rechargeable battery (actually a fuel cell) is very expensive when "scaled up" to actually power a Tesla.
 
There were some troubling claims made in that article. One of them was that a replacement "miracle" battery for a Tesla would cost 5,000# (about $6,000) instead of the 30,000# (about $36,000) cost of its current (but rechargeable L-ion battery pack) and would allow for 1,500 miles of travel - that comes out to 3.33# (about $4) per mile as opposed to $0.125/mile for a conventional IC powered vehicle getting 20 mpg with gasoline cost at $2.50/gallon.

Either my math is wrong or this "miracle" non-rechargeable battery (actually a fuel cell) is very expensive when "scaled up" to actually power a Tesla.

Remember when NiCd's were the end all for batteries. When the first electric cars came out everyone said they would never catch on because the range was too short etc,. amazing how after someone starts the idea it burns in to reality. Even the environmentalist's should be on this one. It just takes a spark and I believe we just saw one. BTW, the battery is totally recyclable, no toxic poisons.
 
Remember when NiCd's were the end all for batteries. When the first electric cars came out everyone said they would never catch on because the range was too short etc,. amazing how after someone starts the idea it burns in to reality. Even the environmentalist's should be on this one. It just takes a spark and I believe we just saw one. BTW, the battery is totally recyclable, no toxic poisons.

Like I (and your link) said, it is technically not a battery and it is not rechargeable. This "break through" may lead to new and cost effective technology, but is is definitely not there yet. Having an electric car go 1,500 miles for $6,000 in energy costs is a big loser. Nobody in their right mind is going to pay $4/mile to travel by car.
 
Like I (and your link) said, it is technically not a battery and it is not rechargeable. This "break through" may lead to new and cost effective technology, but is is definitely not there yet. Having an electric car go 1,500 miles for $6,000 in energy costs is a big loser. Nobody in their right mind is going to pay $4/mile to travel by car.

It needs to be around $90 for 1,500 miles to be viable (at least based on my car, lol), but hopefully this can be developed into that. We will see.
 
It needs to be around $90 for 1,500 miles to be viable (at least based on my car, lol), but hopefully this can be developed into that. We will see.

From $6K to under $100 is quite a leap for any technology. Of course, any replaceable/recyclable "universal" vehicle battery must be a standard size, shape and voltage to be useful. That is not the way that auto, or even battery powered tool/equipment, companies like for things to be - in fact, they seem to go out of their way to do just the opposite.
 
Like I (and your link) said, it is technically not a battery and it is not rechargeable. This "break through" may lead to new and cost effective technology, but is is definitely not there yet. Having an electric car go 1,500 miles for $6,000 in energy costs is a big loser. Nobody in their right mind is going to pay $4/mile to travel by car.

You are locked on the Tesla portion, Tesla is now just one of numerous electrics and hybrids that do not require the same battery array as a Tesla. No, not rechargeable, yet, but easy to swap out with one that is charged. What new tech do you know that has started at the top of the game? Just a couple of years ago I had the latest and greatest new tech in TV's, Plasma, now find one since LED's improved. TV is LED as well as all the lights in the house. No, it is closer to a fuel cell, the new tech in the Toyota Mirai is a fuel cell, is that a loser too because it's too new and they have not grown enough just yet? You sounding more like those who told two bicycle builders, don't you know heavier than air flight will never happen.
 
You are locked on the Tesla portion, Tesla is now just one of numerous electrics and hybrids that do not require the same battery array as a Tesla. No, not rechargeable, yet, but easy to swap out with one that is charged. What new tech do you know that has started at the top of the game? Just a couple of years ago I had the latest and greatest new tech in TV's, Plasma, now find one since LED's improved. TV is LED as well as all the lights in the house. No, it is closer to a fuel cell, the new tech in the Toyota Mirai is a fuel cell, is that a loser too because it's too new and they have not grown enough just yet? You sounding more like those who told two bicycle builders, don't you know heavier than air flight will never happen.

I am not saying that it will never happen just that it has not yet happened. BTW, how practical was flight when that meant taking one person up to a few hundred feet away from where they started with no idea exactly how long (or high) that flight would be?
 
I am not saying that it will never happen just that it has not yet happened. BTW, how practical was flight when that meant taking one person up to a few hundred feet away from where they started with no idea exactly how long (or high) that flight would be?

I wonder if this would make better AA batteries, at least more environmentally friendly ones.
 
I wonder if this would make better AA batteries, at least more environmentally friendly ones.

Better than what? L-ion and NiCad batteries are the right size, shape and voltage and they are rechargeable. If being "green" means paying over 1000X more for batteries then count me out.
 
Better than what? L-ion and NiCad batteries are the right size, shape and voltage and they are rechargeable. If being "green" means paying over 1000X more for batteries then count me out.

just cheaper for a regular battery.
 
Ex-Navy officer turned inventor signs a multi-million deal to produce his electric car battery that will take drivers 1,500 miles without needing to charge

Not an idea but a reality, some highlights of the article:







Father-of-eight invents an electric car battery to take drivers 1,500 miles without charging it | Daily Mail Online

(Words in blue were added by me for clarification in US terms.)

That was just some highlights, much more info in the article and well worth the read.



There already are aluminum-air fuel cells that have comparable cost to ICE, internal combustion engine. Well, except for the fact that they have a limited life, as stated. In fact, they have a limited shelf life. The article is about nothing more than about a claim that is not yet proved let alone improved. Will be installed in thousands of cars next year?
 
I am not saying that it will never happen just that it has not yet happened. BTW, how practical was flight when that meant taking one person up to a few hundred feet away from where they started with no idea exactly how long (or high) that flight would be?

That is the whole point of what I have been saying, it was just the beginning, 20 feet high, 120 feet covered in only 12 seconds of flight. 10 years later they ruled the skies as fighters and bombers.
 
That is the whole point of what I have been saying, it was just the beginning, 20 feet high, 120 feet covered in only 12 seconds of flight. 10 years later they ruled the skies as fighters and bombers.

OK, I'll check back on this new battery technology in about a decade.
 
The lesson here is simple. We don't get our tech news from the Daily Fail.
 
There were some troubling claims made in that article. One of them was that a replacement "miracle" battery for a Tesla would cost 5,000# (about $6,000) instead of the 30,000# (about $36,000) cost of its current (but rechargeable L-ion battery pack) and would allow for 1,500 miles of travel - that comes out to 3.33# (about $4) per mile as opposed to $0.125/mile for a conventional IC powered vehicle getting 20 mpg with gasoline cost at $2.50/gallon.

Either my math is wrong or this "miracle" non-rechargeable battery (actually a fuel cell) is very expensive when "scaled up" to actually power a Tesla.

That was a poorly written article

I doubt the writer was understanding the cost properly and wrote numbers down


The questions for the tech are

1. At the recharge point is just the aluminum and liquid catalyst changed out, leaving the rest of the "battery". If so what is the cost of the recharge. To me it looks like the battery costs 5000 Pounds. I expect the battery in the base Tesla Model 3 is around the same cost ( given it sells for $40 000 in the US and 5000 Pounds is roughly $6500

2 How quick is the recharge? Does it have to go to a skilled mechanic, or something that can be done quickly (a few minutes, hours or days)

3. What will happen with the used catalyst/aluminum
 
That was a poorly written article

I doubt the writer was understanding the cost properly and wrote numbers down


The questions for the tech are

1. At the recharge point is just the aluminum and liquid catalyst changed out, leaving the rest of the "battery". If so what is the cost of the recharge. To me it looks like the battery costs 5000 Pounds. I expect the battery in the base Tesla Model 3 is around the same cost ( given it sells for $40 000 in the US and 5000 Pounds is roughly $6500

2 How quick is the recharge? Does it have to go to a skilled mechanic, or something that can be done quickly (a few minutes, hours or days)

3. What will happen with the used catalyst/aluminum

Aside from the fact that this battery's initial cost is ridiculous (at about $4/mile), it really doesn't much matter if its replacement cost is reduced from $6K to even $3K (with the recycled core) since that is still costing $2/mile.
 
Aside from the fact that this battery's initial cost is ridiculous (at about $4/mile), it really doesn't much matter if its replacement cost is reduced from $6K to even $3K (with the recycled core) since that is still costing $2/mile.


That is why I think the writer was a moron out of their depth

From the article all that would need to be changed is the "fuel cell" which contains the catalyst and the aluminum. Which could be as simple as removing a block of aluminum, draining the catalyst, and adding a new block of aluminum and fresh catalyst, or the removal of the battery. The first could be done in a couple of hours, the second might require a shop with a lift

If just removal and addition of the aluminum and catalyst the cost could be quite low. Aluminum sells for $0.78 per pound. The ease of exchange would be vital in making this a viable alternative to traditional batteries and or ICE
 
That is why I think the writer was a moron out of their depth

From the article all that would need to be changed is the "fuel cell" which contains the catalyst and the aluminum. Which could be as simple as removing a block of aluminum, draining the catalyst, and adding a new block of aluminum and fresh catalyst, or the removal of the battery. The first could be done in a couple of hours, the second might require a shop with a lift

If just removal and addition of the aluminum and catalyst the cost could be quite low. Aluminum sells for $0.78 per pound. The ease of exchange would be vital in making this a viable alternative to traditional batteries and or ICE

If the initial cost of this "battery assembly" is $6K (meaning that nobody would ever buy it) then it matters little what refurbishing it every 1,500 miles would (or might) cost. Since we know the cost of aluminum is not that high then it must be the cost of new "magic juice" that is driving the price up.

BTW, I agree that the article sucked when covering the replacement/recycling aspect of this new technology.
 
Ex-Navy officer turned inventor signs a multi-million deal to produce his electric car battery that will take drivers 1,500 miles without needing to charge

Not an idea but a reality, some highlights of the article:







Father-of-eight invents an electric car battery to take drivers 1,500 miles without charging it | Daily Mail Online

(Words in blue were added by me for clarification in US terms.)

That was just some highlights, much more info in the article and well worth the read.

Sigh. It's the daily mail. The daily mail has a good a reputation for being accurate as the World News Daily and bat boy. It would be wonderful, but, honestly, if it's too good to be true, it isn't true. Not only that, but if you look for Austin Electic in essex doesn't exist. The daily mail is not what you could consider reliable.
 
That was a poorly written article

I doubt the writer was understanding the cost properly and wrote numbers down


The questions for the tech are

1. At the recharge point is just the aluminum and liquid catalyst changed out, leaving the rest of the "battery". If so what is the cost of the recharge. To me it looks like the battery costs 5000 Pounds. I expect the battery in the base Tesla Model 3 is around the same cost ( given it sells for $40 000 in the US and 5000 Pounds is roughly $6500

2 How quick is the recharge? Does it have to go to a skilled mechanic, or something that can be done quickly (a few minutes, hours or days)

3. What will happen with the used catalyst/aluminum

It's non recharable, you have to swap it out.

However, let's look at the '7 signs of bogus science', and see how many of the points in there are taken up by this claims

The Seven Warning Signs of Bogus Science

1. The discoverer pitches the claim directly to the media.

2. The discoverer says that a powerful establishment is trying to suppress his or her work.

3. The scientific effect involved is always at the very limit of detection.

4. Evidence for a discovery is anecdotal.

5. The discoverer says a belief is credible because it has endured for centuries.

6. The discoverer has worked in isolation.

7. The discoverer must propose new laws of nature to explain an observation.

Point 1) Taken directly media, .. check
Point 2) Claims that the industry try to supress his discovery.. CHeck.
Point 4) So far, I don't see anybody actually showing a test for this.. Making it anecdotal CHeck
Point 6) Discover worked in Isolation. Check.

So, out of the seven signs of bogus science, this so called discovery hit 4 of them.

That's makes the claim highly unreliable.
 
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There were some troubling claims made in that article. One of them was that a replacement "miracle" battery for a Tesla would cost 5,000# (about $6,000) instead of the 30,000# (about $36,000) cost of its current (but rechargeable L-ion battery pack) and would allow for 1,500 miles of travel - that comes out to 3.33# (about $4) per mile as opposed to $0.125/mile for a conventional IC powered vehicle getting 20 mpg with gasoline cost at $2.50/gallon.

Either my math is wrong or this "miracle" non-rechargeable battery (actually a fuel cell) is very expensive when "scaled up" to actually power a Tesla.

Sigh, Tesla battery packs don't cost thirty thousand bucks. They're between five and seven thousand, and that's an OEM unit directly from Tesla, not from a remanufacturer, which is even cheaper.

My question is, although Al-Air sounds intriguing, the question is whether or not we can build out an "aluminum infrastructure" because, seeing as these are primary batteries and not rechargeable, we're talking about transporting aluminum anodes all over the world, back and forth, every single day.
One must add those transport and reman costs into the equation.
 
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