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Bill to route internet through Russian servers spurs protest

JacksinPA

JacksinPA

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Bill to route internet through Russian servers spurs protest

MOSCOW (AP) — Several thousand people have rallied in Moscow to protest legislation they fear could lead to widespread internet censorship for Russian users.

The sanctioned rally on Sunday was organized in response to a bill in parliament that would route all internet traffic through servers in Russia, making virtual private networks (VPNs) ineffective.
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Welcome to George Orwell's vision of the future, coming soon to Russia. How soon before it comes here?
 
CCP Dictator-Tyrants in Beijing have been fierce trying to block vpn services from China but they have failed miserably. USA vpn technology blows right through all CCP blocks, rerouting, China network providers' switching connections and much more.


The Boys have put out Xinhua fake news reports they've blocked all vpn services into China but all we do here is laugh at 'em. Party censors and their high tech computers have routed services through public networks in their efforts to intercept vpn services more readily but US vpn technology nixes that too. It tells us a lot about the inadequacy of Chinese technology as the Party Boyz claim falsely all kind of new military super technology and AI leaps and bounds. :lamo
 
Tangmo said:
CCP Dictator-Tyrants in Beijing have been fierce trying to block vpn services from China but they have failed miserably. USA vpn technology blows right through all CCP blocks, rerouting, China network providers' switching connections and much more.


The Boys have put out Xinhua fake news reports they've blocked all vpn services into China but all we do here is laugh at 'em. Party censors and their high tech computers have routed services through public networks in their efforts to intercept vpn services more readily but US vpn technology nixes that too. It tells us a lot about the inadequacy of Chinese technology as the Party Boyz claim falsely all kind of new military super technology and AI leaps and bounds. :lamo
Click to expand...

This isn't really true. No matter how good the VPN, it can always be determined that someone is using it as the traffic the government monitors will be encrypted. The Chinese security services can then just knock down that person's door. If the government is as determined as China's,.even VPNs won't stop them.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
This isn't really true. No matter how good the VPN, it can always be determined that someone is using it as the traffic the government monitors will be encrypted. The Chinese security services can then just knock down that person's door. If the government is as determined as China's,.even VPNs won't stop them.
Click to expand...

And that is why God invented public wi-fi hotspots. ;)

Though admittedly they don't have many of those in the rural areas.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
And that is why God invented public wi-fi hotspots. ;)

Though admittedly they don't have many of those in the rural areas.
Click to expand...

The public wifis will obviously be monitored and as soon as they see somebody encrypting their traffic, it won't be hard to find the individual.

Point being, a determined state like China or Russia absolutely could get full control over their nation's internet and in that case even VPNs and free wifi won't help anyone.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
This isn't really true. No matter how good the VPN, it can always be determined that someone is using it as the traffic the government monitors will be encrypted. The Chinese security services can then just knock down that person's door. If the government is as determined as China's,.even VPNs won't stop them.
Click to expand...

I am in China and I can tell you the China Telecom ISP assigned to me knows exactly that I have vpn and that I always have vpn when I am in China. The ISP does all kind of interference and obstruction yet my vpn continues to function. So kindly refrain from telling me what is true and not true, fact or false thx.

There are always times I have to connect to the vpn service site for remote assistance using the regular ISP here and I do connect, get the remote assistance and get the vpn reconnected and soundly reestablished. It goes in cycles of the Party censors devising a new attack technology and my vpn provider putting its engineers to it and whacking back the Party censors with a sound and solid vpn connection again.

I and Chinese people themselves know well the pigs, er, Party-Government authorities can come pounding on our door yet they never do. When I do have to get a China Telecom ISP service tech the guy always says my problem would stop if I quit using vpn and stopped accessing YouTube, Facebook, Washington Post etc etc among the hundreds of sites that are prohibited or, even worse, forbidden.

Different words of the Party-Government censors appear when a Chinese or a foreign devil are accessing a blocked site. "Unavailable" is just any old site the censors block, such as Reuters. "Prohibited" is a site one can get the ISP disconnected for continually trying to access, such as the China Uncensored website. "Forbidden" is a hot site that censors will singe your ass for by cutting the China ISP provider from you -- MSNBC is a "forbidden" because it bashes Trump by the minute; CNN likewise. Fox is a China favorite one can access any time because it defends Trump. My vpn accesses all of 'em even sometimes when I need service from the vpn website. Censors mostly use their own China networks such as China Telecom, China Mobile and others to interrupt the programing itself given Party-Government censors can't stop the vpn riding the China network ISP. So censors disrupt their own network they control absolutely.

Of course Party-Government censors know I use a vpn. I use a vpn based in USA that is China specific (Express VPN) and Party-Censors know which one I use and other use. However, if the Party Mind Control Police hauled off everyone in China that used vpn they'd have a hundred million Chinese and foreign devils such as myself locked up. Workplaces and schools wold be missing people they need. So it's too much for the Party-Government to do. The Boys do scare off some Chinese from using vpn, but only a few. Plus using wifi means the mind control police have to check out too many people to find the one using vpn. Or the two. The three etc. So you trying to tell me and readers what is true in China and not true in China makes you look pretty stupid. Maybe you should ask rather than try to issue ex cathedra disrespectful and numbnuts pronouncements.

Chinese and foreign devils alike know that when response time gets slow then the censors are into the script with their corruption tactics to include spyware and malware. Reboot, reconnect to your vpn and continue. Rinse and repeat as necessary. I'm connected to vpn now.

Censors are highly effective getting into your antivirus system that we pay for. That's where they go first. Any antivirus system that does business with offices in China has to play the game and give censors access. McAfee is one such cooperator with the censors that nobody in China subscribes to any more. China has its own free antivirus system, 360, which the Party-Government installs in all its browsers and sites via its ISP networks and that control where Chinese can go and must not go. Baidu is corrupt with censorship among a slew of other Chinese homegrown websites. China bought Opera and now that browser is corrupt as all hell. This info is easy to find out via using networks, browsers, security systems etc or by word of mouth in China. It's a given to Chinese never to trust a China browser, search engine, network ISP etc. None of 'em and not ever.
 
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Skeptic Bob said:
And that is why God invented public wi-fi hotspots. ;)

Though admittedly they don't have many of those in the rural areas.
Click to expand...

Correct in China. :thumbs:

And I suspect Russian censors will have the same difficulty as Party-Censors have humongously in the CCP-PRC.

Wifi really mucks up the China Party-Government censors monitoring users. Very. Yet the Boyz in Beijing were so pleased with themselves when they got wifi going in China back when. Now it's a huge headache for censors. Good news for the good guys.
 
Tangmo said:
I am in China and I can tell you the China Telecom ISP assigned to me knows exactly that I have vpn and that I always have vpn when I am in China. The ISP does all kind of interference and obstruction yet my vpn continues to function. So kindly refrain from telling me what is true and not true, fact or false thx.

There are always times I have to connect to the vpn service site for remote assistance using the regular ISP here and I do connect, get the remote assistance and get the vpn reconnected and soundly reestablished. It goes in cycles of the Party censors devising a new attack technology and my vpn provider putting its engineers to it and whacking back the Party censors with a sound and solid vpn connection again.

I and Chinese people themselves know well the pigs, er, Party-Government authorities can come pounding on our door yet they never do. When I do have to get a China Telecom ISP service tech the guy always says my problem would stop if I quit using vpn and stopped accessing YouTube, Facebook, Washington Post etc etc among the hundreds of sites that are prohibited or, even worse, forbidden.

Different words of the Party-Government censors appear when a Chinese or a foreign devil are accessing a blocked site. "Unavailable" is just any old site the censors block, such as Reuters. "Prohibited" is a site one can get the ISP disconnected for continually trying to access, such as the China Uncensored website. "Forbidden" is a hot site that censors will singe your ass for by cutting the China ISP provider from you -- MSNBC is a "forbidden" because it bashes Trump by the minute; CNN likewise. Fox is a China favorite one can access any time because it defends Trump. My vpn accesses all of 'em even sometimes when I need service from the vpn website. Censors mostly use their own China networks such as China Telecom, China Mobile and others to interrupt the programing itself given Party-Government censors can't stop the vpn riding the China network ISP. So censors disrupt their own network they control absolutely.

Of course Party-Government censors know I use a vpn. I use a vpn based in USA that is China specific (Express VPN) and Party-Censors know which one I use and other use. However, if the Party Mind Control Police hauled off everyone in China that used vpn they'd have a hundred million Chinese and foreign devils such as myself locked up. Workplaces and schools wold be missing people they need. So it's too much for the Party-Government to do. The Boys do scare off some Chinese from using vpn, but only a few. Plus using wifi means the mind control police have to check out too many people to find the one using vpn. Or the two. The three etc. So you trying to tell me and readers what is true in China and not true in China makes you look pretty stupid. Maybe you should ask rather than try to issue ex cathedra disrespectful and numbnuts pronouncements.

Chinese and foreign devils alike know that when response time gets slow then the censors are into the script with their corruption tactics to include spyware and malware. Reboot, reconnect to your vpn and continue. Rinse and repeat as necessary. I'm connected to vpn now.

Censors are highly effective getting into your antivirus system that we pay for. That's where they go first. Any antivirus system that does business with offices in China has to play the game and give censors access. McAfee is one such cooperator with the censors that nobody in China subscribes to any more. China has its own free antivirus system, 360, which the Party-Government installs in all its browsers and sites via its ISP networks and that control where Chinese can go and must not go. Baidu is corrupt with censorship among a slew of other Chinese homegrown websites. China bought Opera and now that browser is corrupt as all hell. This info is easy to find out via using networks, browsers, security systems etc or by word of mouth in China. It's a given to Chinese never to trust a China browser, search engine, network ISP etc. None of 'em and not ever.
Click to expand...

Thank you for proving my point. Your ISP and the Chinese government know damn well you're using a VPN and the only thing stopping them from just hauling your ass off to a concentration camp is that no bureaucrat feels like doing it. Rest assured, they could if they wanted, your VPN is tolerated until it isn't.
 
JacksinPA said:
Welcome to George Orwell's vision of the future, coming soon to Russia. How soon before it comes here?
Click to expand...

Been here for decades. Ever look at where your internet traffic goes? It is amazing how often it has to go through Virginia USA for some reason even though you are trying to access a non US based service.. Just saying..

Sent from my Honor 8X using Tapatalk
 
Tangmo said:
I am in China and I can tell you the China Telecom ISP assigned to me knows exactly that I have vpn and that I always have vpn when I am in China. The ISP does all kind of interference and obstruction yet my vpn continues to function. So kindly refrain from telling me what is true and not true, fact or false thx.

There are always times I have to connect to the vpn service site for remote assistance using the regular ISP here and I do connect, get the remote assistance and get the vpn reconnected and soundly reestablished. It goes in cycles of the Party censors devising a new attack technology and my vpn provider putting its engineers to it and whacking back the Party censors with a sound and solid vpn connection again.

I and Chinese people themselves know well the pigs, er, Party-Government authorities can come pounding on our door yet they never do. When I do have to get a China Telecom ISP service tech the guy always says my problem would stop if I quit using vpn and stopped accessing YouTube, Facebook, Washington Post etc etc among the hundreds of sites that are prohibited or, even worse, forbidden.

Different words of the Party-Government censors appear when a Chinese or a foreign devil are accessing a blocked site. "Unavailable" is just any old site the censors block, such as Reuters. "Prohibited" is a site one can get the ISP disconnected for continually trying to access, such as the China Uncensored website. "Forbidden" is a hot site that censors will singe your ass for by cutting the China ISP provider from you -- MSNBC is a "forbidden" because it bashes Trump by the minute; CNN likewise. Fox is a China favorite one can access any time because it defends Trump. My vpn accesses all of 'em even sometimes when I need service from the vpn website. Censors mostly use their own China networks such as China Telecom, China Mobile and others to interrupt the programing itself given Party-Government censors can't stop the vpn riding the China network ISP. So censors disrupt their own network they control absolutely.

Of course Party-Government censors know I use a vpn. I use a vpn based in USA that is China specific (Express VPN) and Party-Censors know which one I use and other use. However, if the Party Mind Control Police hauled off everyone in China that used vpn they'd have a hundred million Chinese and foreign devils such as myself locked up. Workplaces and schools wold be missing people they need. So it's too much for the Party-Government to do. The Boys do scare off some Chinese from using vpn, but only a few. Plus using wifi means the mind control police have to check out too many people to find the one using vpn. Or the two. The three etc. So you trying to tell me and readers what is true in China and not true in China makes you look pretty stupid. Maybe you should ask rather than try to issue ex cathedra disrespectful and numbnuts pronouncements.

Chinese and foreign devils alike know that when response time gets slow then the censors are into the script with their corruption tactics to include spyware and malware. Reboot, reconnect to your vpn and continue. Rinse and repeat as necessary. I'm connected to vpn now.

Censors are highly effective getting into your antivirus system that we pay for. That's where they go first. Any antivirus system that does business with offices in China has to play the game and give censors access. McAfee is one such cooperator with the censors that nobody in China subscribes to any more. China has its own free antivirus system, 360, which the Party-Government installs in all its browsers and sites via its ISP networks and that control where Chinese can go and must not go. Baidu is corrupt with censorship among a slew of other Chinese homegrown websites. China bought Opera and now that browser is corrupt as all hell. This info is easy to find out via using networks, browsers, security systems etc or by word of mouth in China. It's a given to Chinese never to trust a China browser, search engine, network ISP etc. None of 'em and not ever.
Click to expand...

Posting these kinds of things while in China connected to a Chinese controlled ISP is risky. You don't want to end up on a watch list. I would not trust my freedom to a VPN.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Thank you for proving my point. Your ISP and the Chinese government know damn well you're using a VPN and the only thing stopping them from just hauling your ass off to a concentration camp is that no bureaucrat feels like doing it. Rest assured, they could if they wanted, your VPN is tolerated until it isn't.
Click to expand...

You are delusional.

You ignored my post in which I replied to your post. The post above says the same thing I replied to and shot down. I advised you the Party-Government would need to haul off a hundred million people who use vpn in China and that he economy cannot sustain that hit. So it's not done.

The Party-Government has to suck wind on it and simply focus on trying to dissemble the vpn intruders, which it cannot do. Party-Government technology cannot stop vpn services entering China and providing global access to the www to Chinese who want it and who are willing to have the Party-Government know they use vpn. To paraphrase Yogi about your "bureaucrats," if the people don't want to come out to the ball park, there's nothing we can do to stop 'em." That is, Party-Government censors are hogtied in this. The people rule on this cause there are just too many of 'em using a vpn.

Your absolute insistence on telling me here in China that what I say is not true testifies to the fact your head is up where the sun don't shine.
 
lwf said:
Posting these kinds of things while in China connected to a Chinese controlled ISP is risky. You don't want to end up on a watch list. I would not trust my freedom to a VPN.
Click to expand...

You make the Party-Government censors sound polite and deferential. Talk about irony.

They never said that to me. The only thing the Party-Censors operatives do say to me is that I have some ongoing difficulties with my ISP connection because I go to YouTube. That's it.

My vpn simply has superior high tech to the tech of the Party-Censors. Many times I click to connect my vpn while my ISP is disconnected to try to punish me. I do this because my vpn also reconnects my ISP then the vpn itself connects me to its networks. The Party-Censors are helpless.

My strongest vpn connections by the vpn I subscribe to are:
LA 4 and 5
Hong Kong 1, 4, 5
UK Wembley
Tokyo 1
Toronto 1

It drives CCP Party-Government censors bat**** crazy. Xi Jinpingpong has been hell on wheels since he took over in 2013. Xi super ramped up censorship and the current failed campaign to sever all vpn access into China. Xi is fierce about not becoming the Gorbachev of China so Xi sees any 1st amendment freedom as a huge nail. Xi is mortified of political reform. As to Putin wanting greater control of the Russian networks, he's facing such severe economic hardships on the Russian people that he''s got to repress, repress, repress. I'm not sure Putin's heart is in this approach however as the protests that are occurring are sanctioned.
 
Tangmo said:
You are delusional.

You ignored my post in which I replied to your post. The post above says the same thing I replied to and shot down. I advised you the Party-Government would need to haul off a hundred million people who use vpn in China and that he economy cannot sustain that hit. So it's not done.

The Party-Government has to suck wind on it and simply focus on trying to dissemble the vpn intruders, which it cannot do. Party-Government technology cannot stop vpn services entering China and providing global access to the www to Chinese who want it and who are willing to have the Party-Government know they use vpn. To paraphrase Yogi about your "bureaucrats," if the people don't want to come out to the ball park, there's nothing we can do to stop 'em." That is, Party-Government censors are hogtied in this. The people rule on this cause there are just too many of 'em using a vpn.

Your absolute insistence on telling me here in China that what I say is not true testifies to the fact your head is up where the sun don't shine.
Click to expand...

You confirmed what I said, that the government absolutely will know that you're using a VPN and can haul your ass off to a concentration camp the second they feel like it. The very first time you become a suspected dissident they can use this is an excuse to lock you up. Your 100 million VPN users in China number is hilariously exaggerated and not grounded in facts.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
And that is why God invented public wi-fi hotspots. ;)

Though admittedly they don't have many of those in the rural areas.
Click to expand...

Not so fast, chief. Data encryption does nothing to block source and destination IPs, otherwise routers wouldn't know where to route encrypted traffic. All that encryption does is make it harder to dig into the packets to see what is inside. A Wi-Fi hot spot in China will almost certainly be checking for encrypted packets, and alerting to the IPs and MAC of the system that sent them. In more sophisticated systems they can even triangulate to the location of the device.

Also, all the major VPN providers are black listed on Chinese routers anyway.
 
jmotivator said:
Not so fast, chief. Data encryption does nothing to block source and destination IPs, otherwise routers wouldn't know where to route encrypted traffic. All that encryption does is make it harder to dig into the packets to see what is inside. A Wi-Fi hot spot in China will almost certainly be checking for encrypted packets, and alerting to the IPs and MAC of the system that sent them. In more sophisticated systems they can even triangulate to the location of the device.

Also, all the major VPN providers are black listed on Chinese routers anyway.
Click to expand...

So back when I was overseas and needed to do some things online that the host country wouldn’t approve of, or I didn’t want them monitoring (like me posting on this forum), I grabbed my laptop, which had an anonymously PAID VPN and my directional WiFi antenna. I’d set up down the street, find the signal, hook up to the WiFi, and do what I needed. Free VPNs certainly get blocked but the paid ones I used had lists of “clean” IPs that had not been blacklisted yet.

Now, that isn’t practical for your typical internet user who just want to look at porn, but the savvy users, who often include the political activists, know how to get around things with minimal chance of getting caught. There are also free speech advocates in free countries that provide free, nonblacklisted IPs that can be connected to via VPN from the censored countries.

Countries like North Korea that are completely cut off are much more difficult to find such workarounds. If we ever get those low orbit satellites that provide global internet coverage that might change, though.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
So back when I was overseas and needed to do some things online that the host country wouldn’t approve of, or I didn’t want them monitoring (like me posting on this forum), I grabbed my laptop, which had an anonymously PAID VPN and my directional WiFi antenna. I’d set up down the street, find the signal, hook up to the WiFi, and do what I needed. Free VPNs certainly get blocked but the paid ones I used had lists of “clean” IPs that had not been blacklisted yet.

Now, that isn’t practical for your typical internet user who just want to look at porn, but the savvy users, who often include the political activists, know how to get around things with minimal chance of getting caught. There are also free speech advocates in free countries that provide free, nonblacklisted IPs that can be connected to via VPN from the censored countries.

Countries like North Korea that are completely cut off are much more difficult to find such workarounds. If we ever get those low orbit satellites that provide global internet coverage that might change, though.
Click to expand...

Not sure when you were overseas, but it's certainly not something you can pull off if the country really does have their internet locked down. Either way, it is something that can be tracked after the fact easily enough. If you spoofed your mac and ran around with directional antennas, lining them up with wi-fi routers in businesses you weren't in, then yeah, a country that doesn't have their internet on lock down would probably not catch you James Bonding around their laws. But the very nature of an encrypted packet makes it easy to locate and kill by any firewall. If the state run ISP has a firewall between that Wi-Fi and the Internet then they can set a rule that nobody attached to the internet there can send encrypted packets.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
You confirmed what I said, that the government absolutely will know that you're using a VPN and can haul your ass off to a concentration camp the second they feel like it. The very first time you become a suspected dissident they can use this is an excuse to lock you up. Your 100 million VPN users in China number is hilariously exaggerated and not grounded in facts.
Click to expand...

Nobody needs confirming that the Party-Government "absolutely will know that you're using a VPN." We know that in the CCP-PRC the Party-Government knows when and who is using a vpn. That is a given. You're wasting time here announcing that red is red and blue is blue etc. The only confirmation I've made of anything you have posted here is that you're saying what people already have known and that it is a pointless waste of our time.

Look, censorship enforcement of internet and domestic networks in China is like taxes in the USA and audits by IRS. We know IRS rarely wastes resources auditing a filing with $50,000 taxable income and taxes paid. IRS audits go after the big bucks to make a worthwhile use of their limited resources. Trump gets audited for instance, not you. I've never been audited ha no matter my taxable income and refunds because I'm definitely not worth it to the IRS to audit. Same for CCP Party-Government censors, isp, china networks, internet www. Censors don't bust Joe Chen netizen (internet citizen) down the street for having and using a vpn. They go after big name Chinese who fight publicly for freedom of press, freedom of speech, freedom of internet access and the like. I'm a foreign devil who bedevils 'em for sure using vpn and for years and years, but the Party-Government boys locally, in the province and in Beijing aren't going to throw an American into the slammer for accessing the www.

The Boyz absolutely do not need an American in China locked up for pursuing what in USA are ordinary 1st amendment freedoms taken for granted by all Americans...and by Europeans, and Australians, Japanese, South Koreans, those in Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan and so on and so on. You also need to know that -- and how much -- the Boyz in Beijing hate negative publicity against 'em in USA. They know that from their standpoint Kim Jong Un is a blistering idiot for the Otto Wamberger murder in NK. And now the Boyz see Trump blundering around on it and while one might think the Boyz are laughing over Trump's predicament, they are not laughing. The Boyz can't believe how stupid Trump has made himself look to his own people on this. They just can't believe it.

The long and the short of it here is that the Boys in Beijing are idiots yes but they're not stupid. And besides, their saving grace is that modern day Chinese can have brain surgery, i.e., have one put in, instead of having to go through their life without a brain the way all their ancestors have done. Because the only way a Chinese today can discover he has no brain is to access the www internet. It's why the Party Boyz know they have to close it off to the population and to keep China closed as needed against foreign influences. The Boys tolerate American and European foreign devils in China only until they're finished with us at which time they'll throw us out or in the slammer. They're a long way from that yet.
 
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PeteEU said:
Been here for decades. Ever look at where your internet traffic goes? It is amazing how often it has to go through Virginia USA for some reason even though you are trying to access a non US based service.. Just saying..

Sent from my Honor 8X using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Wasn't there the revelation some years ago about a big NSA siphon room installed in Telco's SF switching building? Everything went in & nothing came out. Likely the same today.
 
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