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Certain Doom or Power Boom? Lockheed Developing Mini Fusion Reactor

longview said:
Actually there are plenty of people who are still working on what was called cold Fusion.
Brilliant Light Power | Brilliant Light Power has developed a new commercially competitive, non-polluting, plasma-based primary source of massive power from the conversion of hydrogen atoms of water molecules to dark matter, the previously unidentifi
Dr. Mills seems to be the closest, but for him to be right, lots of physics is wrong,
but his cell is doing something.
Click to expand...

Nobody knows what dark matter is but he claims to be creating it :lamo
 
Deuce said:
Nobody knows what dark matter is but he claims to be creating it :lamo
Click to expand...
To me, Mills comes across like a snake oil salesman, but his theory is the best explanation of the observations so far.
Calling the new state of hydrogen dark matter, is a reach, but everything has to be called something.
Current physics says that a hydrogen atom at ground state is actually near zero energy,
Mills claims, what we call ground state, is simply a common stable state, with more energy available.
The correct stimulation, can release the remaining energy, but you have to be prepared to deal with
the new lower state hydrogen, which is an energy sponge.
If he has found a way to release the energy he theorizes is still in play, he will make a lot of money.
 
RAMOSS said:
Well, the reason so many companies are looking at it right now is that there HAS been a substantial technological leap in magnetism... and that the superconducting tape that can be used for magnetic confinement is 'off the shelf'. . (I.e. a lot cheaper than custom made).
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And yet, still nothing...
 
longview said:
To me, Mills comes across like a snake oil salesman, but his theory is the best explanation of the observations so far.
Calling the new state of hydrogen dark matter, is a reach, but everything has to be called something.
Current physics says that a hydrogen atom at ground state is actually near zero energy,
Mills claims, what we call ground state, is simply a common stable state, with more energy available.
The correct stimulation, can release the remaining energy, but you have to be prepared to deal with
the new lower state hydrogen, which is an energy sponge.
If he has found a way to release the energy he theorizes is still in play, he will make a lot of money.
Click to expand...

I remember when the original cold fusion claim was coming under criticism, one professor memorably said: "I'd like to see it replicated at a university without a good football team."
 
For the last half century, we've had guys saying practical fusion was a decade away.

They might be right this time, but I'm not holding my breath.

You need to contain the energy of the sun, in a bottle, and you really, really, really, don't want it to break...
 
Jack Hays said:
I remember when the original cold fusion claim was coming under criticism, one professor memorably said: "I'd like to see it replicated at a university without a good football team."
Click to expand...
The old sci-physics-fusion forum went back and forth on this for years.
Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons, saw something, and did not destroy their careers because of a calorimetry mistake.
Mills explanation, while non traditional, explains, why the close calorimetry experiments failed.
 
PoS said:
And yet, still nothing...
Click to expand...

Well, not 'nothing'.

For example, there has been great progress in the last 4 years. THis year, skunkworks put in some patents, and their originally scheduled prototype of the generator is supposed to start being tested next year. The x-7 stellerator is making fantastic progress too.
 
RAMOSS said:
Well, not 'nothing'.

For example, there has been great progress in the last 4 years. THis year, skunkworks put in some patents, and their originally scheduled prototype of the generator is supposed to start being tested next year. The x-7 stellerator is making fantastic progress too.
Click to expand...

Progress isnt results. Therefore it remains as nothing.
 
longview said:
To me, Mills comes across like a snake oil salesman, but his theory is the best explanation of the observations so far.
Calling the new state of hydrogen dark matter, is a reach, but everything has to be called something.
Current physics says that a hydrogen atom at ground state is actually near zero energy,
Mills claims, what we call ground state, is simply a common stable state, with more energy available.
The correct stimulation, can release the remaining energy, but you have to be prepared to deal with
the new lower state hydrogen, which is an energy sponge.
If he has found a way to release the energy he theorizes is still in play, he will make a lot of money.
Click to expand...

Explanation of what observations? Show me the observations he has made or measured.
 
Deuce said:
Explanation of what observations? Show me the observations he has made or measured.
Click to expand...
The original observation was from Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons.
The story goes they had a simple elector-chemical experiment, 1 liter of deuterium,
with a palladium anode, the current source was supposedly a 9 volt battery.
The experiment had been on most of the day, and they were not seeing what they expected.
Closing up the lab, they switched off the battery, within a few seconds the anode started glowing white hot,
and a column vaporized deuterium hit the ceiling, almost completely boiling away the liter of deuterium.
Both knew a 9 volt battery did not contain the energy to boil almost a liter deuterium into steam.
The problem was the experiment could not be repeated under more controlled conditions.
Strange heating was observed, but when placed in a closed system for a calorimetry experiment,
no additional heat was observed.
Ponds and Fleischmann ether did not describe the complete experiment, or more was going on.
Mills tried to describe it as a non fusion event, but a quantum physics event, where hydrogen dropped another
326 eV below what we call ground state.
This newly described state of hydrogen, he called the Hydrino,
and was able to make new molecules with them.
The first company name Blacklight Power, was from the UV photon observed when the Hydrino was created.
His company keeps getting funding, and seems (always) to be close to a breakthrough.
 
longview said:
The original observation was from Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons.
The story goes they had a simple elector-chemical experiment, 1 liter of deuterium,
with a palladium anode, the current source was supposedly a 9 volt battery.
The experiment had been on most of the day, and they were not seeing what they expected.
Closing up the lab, they switched off the battery, within a few seconds the anode started glowing white hot,
and a column vaporized deuterium hit the ceiling, almost completely boiling away the liter of deuterium.
Both knew a 9 volt battery did not contain the energy to boil almost a liter deuterium into steam.
The problem was the experiment could not be repeated under more controlled conditions.
Strange heating was observed, but when placed in a closed system for a calorimetry experiment,
no additional heat was observed.
Ponds and Fleischmann ether did not describe the complete experiment, or more was going on.
Mills tried to describe it as a non fusion event, but a quantum physics event, where hydrogen dropped another
326 eV below what we call ground state.
This newly described state of hydrogen, he called the Hydrino,
and was able to make new molecules with them.
The first company name Blacklight Power, was from the UV photon observed when the Hydrino was created.
His company keeps getting funding, and seems (always) to be close to a breakthrough.
Click to expand...

I have a bookshelf that self-levitates, but only when nobody else is in the room. You should pay me a salary so I can research this phenomenon.
 
Deuce said:
I have a bookshelf that self-levitates, but only when nobody else is in the room. You should pay me a salary so I can research this phenomenon.
Click to expand...
Good for you! I think over unity in Mills cell have been validated by outside organizations, not as high a level as he claims,
but any over unity is really something, like if your bookshelves only levitated 1/4 inch, but validated and measured by others.
 
longview said:
Good for you! I think over unity in Mills cell have been validated by outside organizations, not as high a level as he claims,
but any over unity is really something, like if your bookshelves only levitated 1/4 inch, but validated and measured by others.
Click to expand...

You think
 
Deuce said:
You think
Click to expand...
Turn of a phrase, I read it,
In 1996, NASA released a report describing experiments using a BLP electrolytic cell. Although not recreating the large heat gains reported for the cell by BLP, unexplained power gains ranging from 1.06 to 1.68 of the input power were reported, which, whilst "...admit[ing] the existence of an unusual source of heat with the cell...falls far short of being compelling".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brilliant_Light_Power
 
longview said:
Turn of a phrase, I read it,
In 1996, NASA released a report describing experiments using a BLP electrolytic cell. Although not recreating the large heat gains reported for the cell by BLP, unexplained power gains ranging from 1.06 to 1.68 of the input power were reported, which, whilst "...admit[ing] the existence of an unusual source of heat with the cell...falls far short of being compelling".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brilliant_Light_Power
Click to expand...

Interesting that you left out the next sentence from your quote
 
Deuce said:
Interesting that you left out the next sentence from your quote
Click to expand...

which was to provide an alternate explanation that didn't need new chemistry/physics.
 
RAMOSS said:
which was to provide an alternate explanation that didn't need new chemistry/physics.
Click to expand...

Correct.

No evidence exists that hydrinos even exist, much less were the cause of the observed effects.
 
Deuce said:
Interesting that you left out the next sentence from your quote
Click to expand...
The reason I left it out was because if they observed over unity, they were getting out more energy than was going in.
The actual "what was going on", at that point is irrelevant.
But let's look at the complete statement from a physics point of view.
In 1996, NASA released a report describing experiments using a BLP electrolytic cell. Although not recreating the large heat gains reported for the cell by BLP, unexplained power gains ranging from 1.06 to 1.68 of the input power were reported, which, whilst "...admit[ing] the existence of an unusual source of heat with the cell...falls far short of being compelling". The authors went on to propose the recombination of hydrogen and oxygen as a possible explanation of the anomalous results.
Click to expand...
Unexplained power gains up to 1.68 time the input, but the authors proposed it could be from a recombination of hydrogen and oxygen.
The next question would be is where did all that hydrogen and oxygen come from, to recombine.
We know that it takes energy to break down water, and that we don't get all the energy back when it recombines,
so how does the recombine statement explain more power out than in?
 
longview said:
The reason I left it out was because if they observed over unity, they were getting out more energy than was going in.
The actual "what was going on", at that point is irrelevant.
But let's look at the complete statement from a physics point of view.

Unexplained power gains up to 1.68 time the input, but the authors proposed it could be from a recombination of hydrogen and oxygen.
The next question would be is where did all that hydrogen and oxygen come from, to recombine.
We know that it takes energy to break down water, and that we don't get all the energy back when it recombines,
so how does the recombine statement explain more power out than in?
Click to expand...

This doesn’t support hydrinos existing
 
Deuce said:
This doesn’t support hydrinos existing
Click to expand...
It does not have to! Having an outside group validate that more energy is coming out than is going in,
is more important than if the theory describing why is accurate.
I do not know if Mills is still on the hydrino idea, he may have moved on himself.
 
longview said:
It does not have to! Having an outside group validate that more energy is coming out than is going in,
is more important than if the theory describing why is accurate.
I do not know if Mills is still on the hydrino idea, he may have moved on himself.
Click to expand...

If the observed phenomenon requires literal magic, it is worth considering the measuring was done wrong.
 
Deuce said:
If the observed phenomenon requires literal magic, it is worth considering the measuring was done wrong.
Click to expand...
Any significant advancement in technology is indistinguishable from magic, or so the saying goes!
Not when Nasa runs a test and actually says they saw over unity of 1.68, they have eliminated erroneous measurements.
The follow on comment, about possibly the excess was from recombination of hydrogen and oxygen would not produce over unity.
 
longview said:
Any significant advancement in technology is indistinguishable from magic, or so the saying goes!
Not when Nasa runs a test and actually says they saw over unity of 1.68, they have eliminated erroneous measurements.
The follow on comment, about possibly the excess was from recombination of hydrogen and oxygen would not produce over unity.
Click to expand...

It is the third of Arthur C. Clarke's three laws.


  1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
  2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
  3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
 
Jack Hays said:
It is the third of Arthur C. Clarke's three laws.


  1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
  2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
  3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Click to expand...

For some reason, I was thinking it was Heinlein or Asimov, but I have read a lot from all 3 authors.
 
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