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IQ: Ranges, Meaning, and Achievement

ecofarm said:
IQ tests are, thus far, incapable of transcending socioeconomic class and culture. Attempting to correlate scores for disparate individuals is probably the most common mistake in their use.
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Agreed.
Aside, I feel compelled to note that one ought not, in an IQ thread, direct others to read a sig containing grammatical errors. Just sayin'
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I am not sure if that was sarcasm or hypocritical comic relief.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
I am not sure if that was sarcasm or hypocritical comic relief.
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You don't think it's funny, in an IQ thread, for someone to be "read my sig" and the sig has grammatical errors? Don't take it personally and you should see the humor. Anyway, you should probably correct it.
 
celticwar17 said:
They are an extremely accurate means of determining success.... in fact, it is the statistic that has the largest correlation to success in America.... even more-so than born wealth.


By dismissing IQ tests you dismiss the entire discipline of Psychology... accurate IQ tests is the largest achievement in the field... it is used in every facet of the field... and is used in countless applications.
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IQ is certainly measuring something. Very few people would question that, as well as its relation to success. But it seems that what it is measuring is not entirely innate. See: Flynn effect.

See also these insights from the folks who administer the IQ tests themselves:

However the quality of schooling a child receives plays a pivotal role in determining IQ test results. Some interesting research endeavours can be cited in this respect.

The Head Start program in the United States is a federally funded preschool program for children from low income families. Head Start provides children with activities that might enhance cognitive development, including reading books, learning the alphabet and numbers, learning the names of colors, drawing, and other activities. These programs often have large initial effects on IQ test results and children who participate gain as much as 15 IQ points compared to control groups of similar children not in the program. The educational correlation for IQ test results continues into adulthood, with college graduates typically scoring higher than non college graduates.

A substantial body of research establishes that preschool education can improve the learning and development of young children. Multiple meta-analyses conducted over the past 25 years have found preschool education to produce an average immediate effect of about half (0.50) a standard deviation on cognitive development. This is the equivalent of 7 or 8 points on an IQ test, or a ascent from the 30th to the 50th percentile on test scores.

The above reports demonstrate that schooling is an important factor that affects intelligence. By schooling, one can improve knowledge of specific facts for intelligence tests, familiarity with testing practices, concentration and attention span, and verbal problem solving skills. Therefore, there is no doubt that education helps raise one's IQ.

On the other hand, research has indicated that children who do not attend school or who attend intermittently eventually have poorer scores on IQ tests than those who attend regularly. Parallely, children who move from low-quality schools to high-quality schools are more likely to show improvements in IQ scores. Besides transmitting information to students directly, schools should teach problem solving, abstract thinking, and how to sustain attention, which are all skills required for scoring well on IQ tests.



A few more truths about schooling and IQ (which may surprise anyone who views it as a measure of innate intelligence):
•Although intelligence does influence the decisions to stay in school, staying in school itself can raise IQ or prevent it from dropping.
•IQ is affected by delayed schooling. A drop in IQ is seen when schooling is delayed.
•Each additional month a student remains in school may increase her/his IQ above what would have been expected had he dropped out.
•IQ is affected by remaining in school longer. The longer a student stays in school, the higher her/his IQ.
•Dropping out of school can also decrease IQ.
•IQ is affected by vacations. The longer the vacation, especially when the child's time is spent on least "mind-stimulating" activities, this decline is evident.
In short, schooling has a long-term effect on the level of intelligence. Education increases a student's capacity to deal with the problem solving tasks typically found in intelligence tests; therefore a student who has mastered those skills at school will inevitably do well on an IQ test.

IQ Test Experts - Can IQ Be Improved? - IQ Articles
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ecofarm said:
You don't think it's funny, in an IQ thread, for someone to be "read my sig" and the sig has grammatical errors? Don't take it personally and you should see the humor. Anyway, you should probably correct it.
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I found it humorous that someone used grammatical errors to criticize my signature in a IQ thread. I also find it entertaining since the latest trend in IQ testing has tried to do away with verbal questions. Not sure why you think that i should take yours or any posters comments personal? Do you take such conversations personal?
 
FreedomFromAll said:
I found it humorous that someone used grammatical errors to criticize my signature in a IQ thread. I also find it entertaining since the latest trend in IQ testing has tried to do away with verbal questions. Not sure why you think that i should take yours or any posters comments personal? Do you take such conversations personal?
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Are you gonna fix it?
 
xMathFanx said:
The general argument Celtic is referring is along these lines (Celtic, please correct me if you think I am doing this an injustice):

1. Those with Higher IQ's tend to do better on the SATs
2. Those who tend to do better on the SAT's tend to get into bigger/more elite schools where they choose and succeed at more challenging College Majors (such as the ones listed in my OP--e.g. STEM, ect.)
3. Those more challenging College Majors (e.g. Engineering, Physical Sciences, Mathematical Sciences, ect.) tend to pay much more than less challenging majors
4. Therefore, those with Higher IQ's tend to be more successful Academically and Monetarily in life compared to those with lower IQ's
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I disagree that academic success leads to monetary success because the highest roll and academic can have is a professorship and that job doesn't pay very well.

One of the best businesses to succeed in monetarily speaking is Real Estate academics help you very little in that field. Another one that is really lucrative is law. You don't have to be profoundly smart to do that you just have to graduate school and pass a test. I would say that generally speaking the average person has plenty of IQ to do that all you're really doing is memorizing things to pass your tests.

To be a physicist or an astronomer you aren't going to make much money but you don't do it for money you do it because you want to.

I would think that is a far better metric to go by to judge success since successes relatively subjective then how much money you spend at school or borrow or what score you get on this or that test.

I never even took the SATs. I went into college as an adult and the only thing I picked up from it was how incredibly easy it was. It seems like it was just a giant flaming hoop you had to jump through. Perhaps I'm simply above average but I don't think so.

Currently I'm in a technical program because I'm going to make way more money and the field on going into then I would have ever dreamed in by academic Pursuits.
 
ecofarm said:
You don't think it's funny, in an IQ thread, for someone to be "read my sig" and the sig has grammatical errors? Don't take it personally and you should see the humor. Anyway, you should probably correct it.
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Where I see the humor good grammar has very little to do with IQ.
 
I personally think drive and desire play a much bigger role in whether or not you are successful.

Maybe I simply have more faith in humans then the average Joe but I really believe the average person is capable of most things. It's just whether or not they have the drive or the desire to put in the time to learn about higher Sciences and mathematics. Were these drives nurtured when they were children are they nurture differently if a parent is shown a super high IQ score or a slightly below average IQ score?

Now I like to think of myself is being an average person maybe I'm not it doesn't matter given enough time and having enough Drive I can understand complex math and some Concepts regarding science physics and so forth. Pursuing an interest as I am in metallurgical testing it comes very easy to me because I want to know everything.

I'm sure I was tested for IQ back in second or first grade and what that was I don't know I don't think it's relevant because your ability to acquire knowledge tapers off as you get older.

Basically put if you want to be a doctor a physician a surgeon whatever you put the time in you pursue it because you desire it more than anything else that's what's going to rate your success.

Is ashamed as I am to admit this I could never be a doctor I don't know if I have the ability to do it but I know the sight of blood makes me physically ill.
 
CLAX1911 said:
I personally think drive and desire play a much bigger role in whether or not you are successful.

Maybe I simply have more faith in humans then the average Joe but I really believe the average person is capable of most things. It's just whether or not they have the drive or the desire to put in the time to learn about higher Sciences and mathematics. Were these drives nurtured when they were children are they nurture differently if a parent is shown a super high IQ score or a slightly below average IQ score?

Now I like to think of myself is being an average person maybe I'm not it doesn't matter given enough time and having enough Drive I can understand complex math and some Concepts regarding science physics and so forth. Pursuing an interest as I am in metallurgical testing it comes very easy to me because I want to know everything.

I'm sure I was tested for IQ back in second or first grade and what that was I don't know I don't think it's relevant because your ability to acquire knowledge tapers off as you get older.

Basically put if you want to be a doctor a physician a surgeon whatever you put the time in you pursue it because you desire it more than anything else that's what's going to rate your success.

Is ashamed as I am to admit this I could never be a doctor I don't know if I have the ability to do it but I know the sight of blood makes me physically ill.
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I agree drive is the main factor of success.

The people regarded as highly intelligent usually do not agree with that description of themselves.
And the ones that do think that they are highly intelligent, usually are nothing but egotistical assholes.
 
A little known fact is that Richard Feynman, The legendary Nobel prize winning physicist of the late 20th century, with the razor sharp wit and humor, had once taken the IQ test and scored only 120 on it- just a little above average. I think he had taken it when he was fairly young. But it was not something he like to talk about very much. Did not stop him from winning the Nobel prize in physics. He got it for his groundbreaking work in quantum electrodynamics and quantum field theory.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
I agree drive is the main factor of success.

The people regarded as highly intelligent usually do not agree with that description of themselves.
And the ones that do think that they are highly intelligent, usually are nothing but egotistical assholes.
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Yes that tends to be what it is. It's almost like a club if you will.

They even have a name for it.
 
ecofarm said:
Your sig is genius, of course.
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Well it wasn't a genius and what it says it was genius in who it provoked.

It's saying it's okay to be something which you cannot help being it's really rather benign. to suggest it's racist to say it's okay to be something that you can't help being is absurd. It was designed to get people to say something that was absurd and it worked wonderfully.

It managed to rile up people who operate under a double standard. They took the bait like a ravenous catfish.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Well it wasn't a genius and what it says it was genius in who it provoked.

It's saying it's okay to be something which you cannot help being it's really rather benign. to suggest it's racist to say it's okay to be something that you can't help being is absurd. It was designed to get people to say something that was absurd and it worked wonderfully.

It managed to rile up people who operate under a double standard. They took the bait like a ravenous catfish.
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Trolling with idiotic crap. Nice.
 
CLAX1911 said:
It wasn't really trolling it was showing the world that double standard.
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So now it's a crybaby victim-card. Why didn't you admit that before?
 
xMathFanx said:
IQ: Ranges, Meaning, and Achievement

This Thread is intended to present material on IQ research that will be explored by all members that wish to participate. Arguments both for and against (as well as neutral) are all welcome. If members have further research/findings they would like to present, by all means, please do so--any & all contributions are encouraged.

[Note: Due to character limitations, I will present some initial thoughts/posts immediately following the creation of this Thread]
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Have taken several accredited tests, average right around, 152, and I can be dumber than a bag of rocks at times. Just means some of us are better at a few things than most others, it just does not mean much in the big scheme of things. Just saying...............
 
CLAX1911 said:
Because it's to provoke people to admit they have a double standard I wouldn't admit something that's not true.
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White victim idiocy. I bet you claim blacks pretend to be a victim.
 
ecofarm said:
White victim idiocy.
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no double standard idiocy.

Idiots thought that saying it was okay to be something that you're born as was racist.

I bet you claim blacks pretend to be a victim.
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No some people do but not just black people and certainly not all black people.

But saying it's okay to be something doesn't convey victim status.

You are reading too much into this because you want there to be something more there. There just isn't.

It's just okay to be white or gay or tall or whatever. Is that also heterophobic and phobic against short people?
 
The two best IQ tests on the internet are provided below (Note: most internet IQ tests fail to give a reasonable ballpark of the takers abilities, as they operate on internally 'rigged' algorithms to produce a non-relevant result)

(1) https://www.123test.com/culture-fair-intelligence-test/ (Note: there is a free 'very' condensed IQ test that will provide a rough ball-park of what range you should expect to fall into if you take the full length test)

(2) https://www.us.mensa.org/join/mht/

[Note, both tests require a fee ($9 and $18)]

The test from (1) is the only online test that has been refereed & deemed applicable for entrance to The International High IQ Society if one achieves a score 124 or above (or, higher than 95% of the population). Other ways into the society include Mensa intelligence test, Mensa membership, IQ test in person administered by professional(s), SAT score that is above the necessary mark.

Test from (2) is provided by Mensa as a Practice test. Mensa requires that one submit SATs, take a Mensa full length test in person, or an IQ test administered by a Psychologist all with translated scores 2 standard deviations above the norm (or, 130 for 15 sd & 132 for 16 sd). The Practice test is designed to give one a solid picture of the type of score they could expect to earn if they followed through and took the full-length Mensa intelligence test at one of their locations and dates (such tests are administered throughout the country relatively frequently, testing fee is about $60--compare that to a Psychologist administered intelligence test, which will cost easily upwards of $500)

Thus, if one does well on the Mensa practice test (i.e. 132 or above), it would be worth taking a full-length test offered by Mensa at a testing center at some point (if desired/curious), as there is a very strong likelihood of testing in & earning admittance to the organization

Note: Mensa and The International High IQ Society are the largest high IQ societies in the world

See High IQ societies:

(A) List of High IQ Societies
(B) https://www.iq-test.net/top-9-international-high-iq-societies-35.html

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In addition to my previous post, one of the best ways to test your IQ on the internet (or even generally) is to take the SAT (if one has no to very limited College experience (i.e. 1 year or less) or the GRE (if one has graduated College or is just about to graduate). Now, for those in the middle of College or toward the end of College debating which test to take, either would work (i.e. SAT or GRE) or perhaps blend your two scores together if the SAT turns out significantly higher than the GRE.
Legitimate free tests can be found online, as well as SAT, GRE to IQ conversion tables. This will give one a pretty good sense of what their IQ is. Also, administered practice tests can be found at centers for a fee.

Note: These are typically about 4 hour long tests

If anyone is interested in where to find the requisite sources to carry out the examination as well as conversion to IQ, links can be provided
 
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