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Is Intelligence Mostly Innate or Nurtured?

Again, that's learning, not intelligence. The smart dog will get to day five by day two.



Yeah.....But the patient and prudent dog ; gives the guy with a bat.....the shadow of a doubt and a chance. ;)

The dog I described was a young innocent, teary eyed beagle dog ---- one not known for be ferocious. :)




Major Lambda
 
Again, that's learning, not intelligence. The smart dog will get to day five by day two.



Take a College Psyche class. Again ----> Environment is intelligence............ and intelligence is environment.


***** Your environment is learned *****




Major Lambda
 
Take a College Psyche class. Again ----> Environment is intelligence............ and intelligence is environment.


***** Your environment is learned *****




Major Lambda

You are making no sense. I hope you know that.
 
Take a College Psyche class. Again ----> Environment is intelligence............ and intelligence is environment.


***** Your environment is learned *****




Major Lambda

The ability to learn, rapidly, is innate.
 
Is Intelligence Mostly Innate or Nurtured?

Now, it is near common knowledge that there is some level of intricate interplay between innate abilities and nurturing. However, which one plays a larger role? Please post your thoughts on the side that you feel is more responsible for various levels of intelligence in the Human population. If you are of the persuasion that it is 50-50, than please come down on either side or both sides of the debate when posting. Also, do you object to the framing of this question?--and rather feel that there is more to be discussed than explored here? Please indicate as such if you deem this to be the case while stating your reasoning.

Note: We are strictly discussing Human intelligence, as the innate differences between a Human and a frog are rather obvious/trivial to reasonably conclude/suppose.



In the course of five decades of self-examination, raising one child and helping raise several others, I've come to these conclusions:

We're born with a potential, and an upper limit on how much intellect we are capable of achieving.

Whether we reach or approach our upper limit is more dependent on nurture.
 
but no dog is smart

My dog begs to differ. She's so smart that we sometimes can't figure out how she knows things. She knows when I'm going to leave the house, for example, and barks her protest at my plans without my moving toward the door or anything obvious. She'll suddenly come from all the way across the house to upbraid me when I decide to go. After much experimentation I found out that when she hears me retrieve my car keys from my desk she knows I'm about to leave.
 
My dog begs to differ. She's so smart that we sometimes can't figure out how she knows things. She knows when I'm going to leave the house, for example, and barks her protest at my plans without my moving toward the door or anything obvious. She'll suddenly come from all the way across the house to upbraid me when I decide to go. After much experimentation I found out that when she hears me retrieve my car keys from my desk she knows I'm about to leave.

My one dog can tell time...feeding time.
 
My one dog can tell time...feeding time.

My dog is a Welsh Corgi, and for a Corgi feeding time is all the time. Feed them all they want and they turn out like this:

fat corgi.JPG

So the owner must control the Corgi's diet.

The up side of the Corgi appetite is that they respond very well to treats when it's time to teach them things, which is good because they don't respond to aversive input at all.
 
Day one --- You walk out to the dog house with a ball bat.....and hit the dog that is chained up.

Day two ---- Same thing.

Day three ---- The dog is going to start growling.

Day four --- The Dog is going to growl and show its teeth.

Day five ---- The Dog is going to strike back.


Environment is intelligence............ and intelligence is environment. As taught in college psychology classes = your environment is learned. And from that you adapt.

Adaption.....is survival. Your actions and reactions are based on your environment ----> Its a psychological fact folks.





Major Lambda

Wrong! Day two-the dog won't come out of the Dog House.
///
 
What is intelligence?

Is it just knowing a bunch of facts or is it something more?

It's much more. Knowing facts counts for very little when you can ask your smart phone practically any factual question and get an answer right away.
 
Is Intelligence Mostly Innate or Nurtured?

A person who is uneducated is very much analogous to stating that they lack physical training. Therefore, their mind is lacks intelligence in a similar manner as ones body would lack strength. Like a muscle, the brain adapts to stimulation and atrophies in the absence of it.

Now in regards to historical figures and intelligence, I will reference a previous post of mine on a separate Forum concerning a connected topic (in hopes that this will contribute to the discussion here):

Now, we need to distinguish between the "hardware" and "software" involved in Human intelligence.
Everybody is born with "hardware" on a spectrum from "lowest grade" to "highest grade", much like height for instance--which is (nearly) entirely out of their own control. Now, unlike height (actually, height can be fiddled with a bit), even the "hardware" can be molded in the positive or negative direction to relevant (although highly constrained) degrees due to neuroplasticity (and Frontal Lobe development or failure to become developed).

As for "software", this is tremendously reliant upon environmental factors and stimuli--including education, study time, ect. ect. Now, there is extremely high reason to believe that average range Human "hardware" is compatible with "software" upgrades beyond what we can currently imagine. That is, we have nowhere near "maxed out". For instance, it is well understood that the modern average Physics Graduate student (who is proficient in their studies) understands Relativity better than Einstein himself did. Moreover, Archimedes, for his time (ca. 287-212 BCE), was an unprecedented genius of the highest degree and it is well understood now that an individual with a BA/BS in Mathematics (that is proficient in the area) has knowledge & abilities so far above Archimedes that if they were to enter a time machine and go back to converse with him, Archimedes would be flabbergasted & almost definitely would struggle mightily to keep up--if he could at all. Archimedes (and others of his time) may well be tempted to describe such a Time Traveler as a "genius", although we know how silly & off the mark this claim would be. Hence, there are differing perspectives at work here as well, and if the Scientific Enterprise continues for centuries to millennia into Humanities future, this dynamic is bound to continue to unfold. This is a strong basis for hope--if humanity is able to "get our act together", then the potential is stupendous.

Also, Einstein (or Newton, ect) would have never been Einstein if it weren't for the extreme grit & tenacity for which they approached problems. Einstein worked on General Relativity continuously for 10 years straight, and in later life ultimately was on his deathbed writing down equations until he died. The idea that it was simply a "gift" is absurd--Newton, Einstein, and others are amongst the hardest-working people who have ever lived (aside from forced labor, that is). This is why comparisons between say Michael Jordan (or other "top" athletes) and Albert Einstein, ect. are truly infuriatingly stupid (amongst many other reasons).

Now, Newton & Einstein were clearly aberrations in the "high-grade Hardware" they were born with--and people with such "hardware" (to that level) seem to be extremely rare indeed (in fact, statistically infinitesimal). However, one should note that they still put in a tremendous amount of work in order to become the top "Genius" level people we know them as today--or else we (likely) would never have known them at all.
 
Is Intelligence Mostly Innate or Nurtured?

Now, it is near common knowledge that there is some level of intricate interplay between innate abilities and nurturing. However, which one plays a larger role? Please post your thoughts on the side that you feel is more responsible for various levels of intelligence in the Human population. If you are of the persuasion that it is 50-50, than please come down on either side or both sides of the debate when posting. Also, do you object to the framing of this question?--and rather feel that there is more to be discussed than explored here? Please indicate as such if you deem this to be the case while stating your reasoning.

Note: We are strictly discussing Human intelligence, as the innate differences between a Human and a frog are rather obvious/trivial to reasonably conclude/suppose.

Intelligence is the ability to aqire knowledge. I would say it's imperative to survival so its innate. Utt could never truly be nurtured because of an individual did not have the ability to acquire knowledge the human race (lacking instincts outside of a few base survival instincts) would never have existed as we know it.

Our survival doesn't depend on the usage of apendages such as claws or teeth. It depends on the usage of tools and the environment. That requires some ability to acquire knowledge.
 
Is Intelligence Mostly Innate or Nurtured?

A person who is uneducated is very much analogous to stating that they lack physical training. Therefore, their mind is lacks intelligence in a similar manner as ones body would lack strength. Like a muscle, the brain adapts to stimulation and atrophies in the absence of it.

Now in regards to historical figures and intelligence, I will reference a previous post of mine on a separate Forum concerning a connected topic (in hopes that this will contribute to the discussion here):

Now, we need to distinguish between the "hardware" and "software" involved in Human intelligence.
Everybody is born with "hardware" on a spectrum from "lowest grade" to "highest grade", much like height for instance--which is (nearly) entirely out of their own control. Now, unlike height (actually, height can be fiddled with a bit), even the "hardware" can be molded in the positive or negative direction to relevant (although highly constrained) degrees due to neuroplasticity (and Frontal Lobe development or failure to become developed).

As for "software", this is tremendously reliant upon environmental factors and stimuli--including education, study time, ect. ect. Now, there is extremely high reason to believe that average range Human "hardware" is compatible with "software" upgrades beyond what we can currently imagine. That is, we have nowhere near "maxed out". For instance, it is well understood that the modern average Physics Graduate student (who is proficient in their studies) understands Relativity better than Einstein himself did. Moreover, Archimedes, for his time (ca. 287-212 BCE), was an unprecedented genius of the highest degree and it is well understood now that an individual with a BA/BS in Mathematics (that is proficient in the area) has knowledge & abilities so far above Archimedes that if they were to enter a time machine and go back to converse with him, Archimedes would be flabbergasted & almost definitely would struggle mightily to keep up--if he could at all. Archimedes (and others of his time) may well be tempted to describe such a Time Traveler as a "genius", although we know how silly & off the mark this claim would be. Hence, there are differing perspectives at work here as well, and if the Scientific Enterprise continues for centuries to millennia into Humanities future, this dynamic is bound to continue to unfold. This is a strong basis for hope--if humanity is able to "get our act together", then the potential is stupendous.

Also, Einstein (or Newton, ect) would have never been Einstein if it weren't for the extreme grit & tenacity for which they approached problems. Einstein worked on General Relativity continuously for 10 years straight, and in later life ultimately was on his deathbed writing down equations until he died. The idea that it was simply a "gift" is absurd--Newton, Einstein, and others are amongst the hardest-working people who have ever lived (aside from forced labor, that is). This is why comparisons between say Michael Jordan (or other "top" athletes) and Albert Einstein, ect. are truly infuriatingly stupid (amongst many other reasons).

Now, Newton & Einstein were clearly aberrations in the "high-grade Hardware" they were born with--and people with such "hardware" (to that level) seem to be extremely rare indeed (in fact, statistically infinitesimal). However, one should note that they still put in a tremendous amount of work in order to become the top "Genius" level people we know them as today--or else we (likely) would never have known them at all.

Much of the drive in the very bright is actually like being "muse ridden". Einstein needed to know.

He didn't go to work and grind through a bunch of stuff for somebody else all day.
 
What is intelligence?

Is it just knowing a bunch of facts or is it something more?

How big is your "white board"?

How big of an idea can you get your head around?

How complex of a machine can you see work in your mind?

This is what differs.

And some just scribble on those white boards.
 
There is more than one type of intelligence. What the IQ tests generally test for is verbal IQ, perhaps also mathematical or spatial ability. Einstein is often held up as a prime example of genius level IQ, and rightly so. Beethoven is seen as a great composer, but not necessarily high IQ, whatever that means, but consider this:

Had Einstein not been born, relativity would still be real, and more than likely someone else would have discovered it by now. Had Beethoven never been born, his symphonies would not exist at all.

So, which sort of intelligence is most important?
 
I think intellect is somewhat variable, whether you get a little or a lot is either in your DNA or it isn't.
 
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Is Intelligence Mostly Innate or Nurtured?

Now, it is near common knowledge that there is some level of intricate interplay between innate abilities and nurturing. However, which one plays a larger role? Please post your thoughts on the side that you feel is more responsible for various levels of intelligence in the Human population. If you are of the persuasion that it is 50-50, than please come down on either side or both sides of the debate when posting. Also, do you object to the framing of this question?--and rather feel that there is more to be discussed than explored here? Please indicate as such if you deem this to be the case while stating your reasoning.

Note: We are strictly discussing Human intelligence, as the innate differences between a Human and a frog are rather obvious/trivial to reasonably conclude/suppose.

xMathFanx:

Raw, bestial intelligence (the capacity to learn quickly and adapt behaviour to better survive) is innate. Social intelligence (including academics and mastering received knowledge from a society) and wisdom (knowing how best to apply knowledge) are nurtured at the inter-personal, familial, institutional and societal levels. So the answer to the question is dependent on how intelligence is defined. Social intelligence is far more influential than innate intelligence in a complex human society, so I come down on the side of nurture.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
@Evilroddy

Do you think it is possible to increase one's computational speed & power through training? If so, would this contribute to the ability to learn more complex concepts, as well as increased speed of learning?
 
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