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Ground breaking Study of NDE's Proves Consciousness Survives Death....

Fenton

Fenton

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/science/670781/There-IS-life-after-DEATH-Scientists-reveal-shock-findings-from-groundbreaking-study/amp?client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us

Interesting. I've always been on the fence when it comes to legitimacy of NDE's and whether or not they were just manifestations of a dying brain or a legitmate phenomena.

Sure, there have been countless people who have described out of body experiences after clinically dying but they were typically written off by Dr's and Scientist

This study proves that they in fact are legitimate with one participant giving a specific description of what was happening around him after he died
 
I think all this means is that the Brain is able to keep on ticking for a few minutes after it's cut off from consistent blood circulation. Obviously not to it's fullest extent. Kind of like the brain enters a boot menu in safe mode and is idle... but is able to collect a small about of data.... until the power fully goes out.
 
Fenton said:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/science/670781/There-IS-life-after-DEATH-Scientists-reveal-shock-findings-from-groundbreaking-study/amp?client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us

Interesting. I've always been on the fence when it comes to legitimacy of NDE's and whether or not they were just manifestations of a dying brain or a legitmate phenomena.

Sure, there have been countless people who have described out of body experiences after clinically dying but they were typically written off by Dr's and Scientist

This study proves that they in fact are legitimate with one participant giving a specific description of what was happening around him after he died
Click to expand...

This is no "ground-breaking study." :roll:

In a large scale study of more than 2,000 people, British boffins confirmed that thoughts DO carry on after the heart stops.
Click to expand...

Of course consciousness at some level continues as long as the BRAIN is functioning.

That's why we can resuscitate people within a certain time frame and they recover with little or no problems.

This doesn't prove there is an after-life just because some people have "vivid dreams" during this near-death state. :coffeepap:
 
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Captain Adverse said:
This is no "ground-breaking study." :roll:



Of course consciousness at some level continues as long as the BRAIN is functioning.

That's why we can resuscitate people within a certain time frame and they recover with little or no problems.

This doesn't prove there is an after-life just because some people have "vivid dreams" during this near-death state. :coffeepap:
Click to expand...

Read the entire article. In the study it states that one participant accurately described what the Nurses and Doctors were doing to him while he was clinically dead.

It also states that the brain ceases to function 20 - 30 seconds after the heart stops which would make any conscious activity impossible.

Scientist only have theories when it comes to the what actually produces consciousnes and have yet to isolate the physiological function thats responsible for our sense of self awareness.
 
celticwar17 said:
I think all this means is that the Brain is able to keep on ticking for a few minutes after it's cut off from consistent blood circulation. Obviously not to it's fullest extent. Kind of like the brain enters a boot menu in safe mode and is idle... but is able to collect a small about of data.... until the power fully goes out.
Click to expand...

The details reported in the NDEs were not only similar among all NDEs but highly detailed.

Thats not indicative of a brain thats in its boot or bios mode. Also one participant accurately describe what was the Dr and nurses were doing to him from a out of body perspective.

The article also states that brain functions stop 20-30 seconds after the heart stops.
 
Fenton said:
Read the entire article. In the study it states that one participant accurately described what the Nurses and Doctors were doing to him while he was clinically dead.

It also states that the brain ceases to function 20 - 30 seconds after the heart stops which would make any conscious activity impossible.

Scientist only have theories when it comes to the what actually produces consciousnes and have yet to isolate the physiological function thats responsible for our sense of self awareness.
Click to expand...

Incorrect.

The brain can survive for up to about six minutes after the heart stops.
Click to expand...
What is Brain Death? - How Brain Death Works | HowStuffWorks

What happens within 20 - 30 seconds is that the oxygen and nutrients provided by the constant flow of blood thanks to a functioning heart is exhausted. At that point the brain BEGINS to die.

As long as any portion of the brain can function, thought may still occur.

Thus "dreams" may still continue for up to six minutes after the brain begins to die.

EDIT: (Sorry, forgot to answer the "dead guy seeing things.") There are any number of reasons for this. Were his eyes open while he was "clinically dead?" If not, is it possible that like some blind people, the sensations/vibrations against his skin or in his hearing gave him ghost images interpreted by his brain much like echo-location in dolphins? Who knows, but there is probably a logical explanation. :shrug:
 
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Fenton said:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/science/670781/There-IS-life-after-DEATH-Scientists-reveal-shock-findings-from-groundbreaking-study/amp?client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us

Interesting. I've always been on the fence when it comes to legitimacy of NDE's and whether or not they were just manifestations of a dying brain or a legitmate phenomena.

Sure, there have been countless people who have described out of body experiences after clinically dying but they were typically written off by Dr's and Scientist

This study proves that they in fact are legitimate with one participant giving a specific description of what was happening around him after he died
Click to expand...
The article in the link is completely inaccurate. The evidence that the sensational title claims isnt in the article.


Dr. Sam Parnia still doesnt know any more than he knew 12 years a go when he started researching NDE. This interview is newer than the article in the OP link. You are a victim of fake news and laziness.

"Dr. Sam Parnia: It may well be. You’re pushing and I’m giving you honest answers. I don’t know. If I knew the answers then I don’t think I would have engaged and spent 12 years of my life and so much of my medical reputation to try to do this. Because to appreciate people like me, I risk a lot by doing this sort of experiment. So I’m interested in the answers and I don’t know. Like I said, if I was to base everything on the knowledge that I have currently of neuroscience, then the easiest explanation is that this is probably an illusion. But again, I don’t know."

Dr. Sam Parnia Claims Near Death Experience Probably an Illusion
 
Captain Adverse said:
Incorrect.

What is Brain Death? - How Brain Death Works | HowStuffWorks

What happens within 20 - 30 seconds is that the oxygen and nutrients provided by the constant flow of blood thanks to a functioning heart is exhausted. At that point the brain BEGINS to die.

As long as any portion of the brain can function, thought may still occur.

Thus "dreams" may still continue for up to six minutes after the brain begins to die.
Click to expand...

The point of the study was to determine the legitmacy of NDEs, whether or not they were manifestations of a dying brain.

Your arguing againt their findings, not me.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
The article in the link is completely inaccurate. The evidence that the sensational title claims isnt in the article.


Dr. Sam Parnia still doesnt know any more than he knew 12 years a go when he started researching NDE. This interview is newer than the article in the OP link. You are a victim of fake news and laziness.

"Dr. Sam Parnia: It may well be. You’re pushing and I’m giving you honest answers. I don’t know. If I knew the answers then I don’t think I would have engaged and spent 12 years of my life and so much of my medical reputation to try to do this. Because to appreciate people like me, I risk a lot by doing this sort of experiment. So I’m interested in the answers and I don’t know. Like I said, if I was to base everything on the knowledge that I have currently of neuroscience, then the easiest explanation is that this is probably an illusion. But again, I don’t know."

Dr. Sam Parnia Claims Near Death Experience Probably an Illusion
Click to expand...

So he's explained away the participant that that accurately described what was happening in the room after he was clinically dead ?

Has anyone explained this ?
 
Fenton said:
So he's explained away the participant that that accurately described what was happening in the room after he was clinically dead ?

Has anyone explained this ?
Click to expand...

The actual study is behind a paywall, so I can't read it and be entirely sure.

But apparently this particular patient did not recall the any of the objects placed in the room for this study. The researchers had placed objects in areas only visible above the body to see if the patient would later report them after having an out of body experience. Instead of being able to recall any of those, this patient recalled the sounds around him and what the doctor did. But none of that was really any different than what one would expect they would do from having watched a medical drama. This could be the brain stitching together memories of what it would expect to have happened.
 
Anagram said:
The actual study is behind a paywall, so I can't read it and be entirely sure.

But apparently this particular patient did not recall the any of the objects placed in the room for this study. The researchers had placed objects in areas only visible above the body to see if the patient would later report them after having an out of body experience. Instead of being able to recall any of those, this patient recalled the sounds around him and what the doctor did. But none of that was really any different than what one would expect they would do from having watched a medical drama. This could be the brain stitching together memories of what it would expect to have happened.
Click to expand...

Hmmm....I can access the article just fine. It states that his detailed recolections were consistent with verifiable events and that this would be the first confirmed case of a OBE.
 
celticwar17 said:
I think all this means is that the Brain is able to keep on ticking for a few minutes after it's cut off from consistent blood circulation. Obviously not to it's fullest extent. Kind of like the brain enters a boot menu in safe mode and is idle... but is able to collect a small about of data.... until the power fully goes out.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that was always my take on it too. The natural 'powering down' of electrical and neurochemical activity in the brain.

Once in this powering down state, who knows what and how the brain receives, perceives and stores those experiences / impressions.

Problem is, most people who experience these, end up not being available for comments and follow up questions.
 
Fenton said:
Hmmm....I can access the article just fine. It states that his detailed recolections were consistent with verifiable events and that this would be the first confirmed case of a OBE.
Click to expand...

The study itself or the article?
 
Fenton said:
So he's explained away the participant that that accurately described what was happening in the room after he was clinically dead ?

Has anyone explained this ?
Click to expand...

Well Dr. Sam Parnia said it best: "It may well be. You’re pushing and I’m giving you honest answers. I don’t know. If I knew the answers then I don’t think I would have engaged and spent 12 years of my life and so much of my medical reputation to try to do this. Because to appreciate people like me, I risk a lot by doing this sort of experiment. So I’m interested in the answers and I don’t know. Like I said, if I was to base everything on the knowledge that I have currently of neuroscience, then the easiest explanation is that this is probably an illusion. But again, I don’t know."

He said that in October this year. The article in the OP is from August this year. I would have to assume that he does not see that as conclusive evidence, if he is still saying that he doesnt know the answer.

Beyond that what they have offered is what someone said someone said they experienced. No one detected anything with any types of scientific device or recorded anything. Its the same old story just rehashed and taken as proof by those that want to believe in NDE. It isnt science at all and this thread is in the wrong forum.
 
Reads like Dr. Sam Parnia set out to prove a pre-conceived notion, the opposite of the Scientific method.
 
Fenton said:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/science/670781/There-IS-life-after-DEATH-Scientists-reveal-shock-findings-from-groundbreaking-study/amp?client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us

Interesting. I've always been on the fence when it comes to legitimacy of NDE's and whether or not they were just manifestations of a dying brain or a legitmate phenomena.

Sure, there have been countless people who have described out of body experiences after clinically dying but they were typically written off by Dr's and Scientist

This study proves that they in fact are legitimate with one participant giving a specific description of what was happening around him after he died
Click to expand...

Hmm... the Breitbart of the UK believes that brain activity lasts for several seconds after death.
That's, umm... not especially groundbreaking.

Now if only that rag can detect brain activity in its living readers...
Now that would be... remarkable!
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Well Dr. Sam Parnia said it best: "It may well be. You’re pushing and I’m giving you honest answers. I don’t know. If I knew the answers then I don’t think I would have engaged and spent 12 years of my life and so much of my medical reputation to try to do this. Because to appreciate people like me, I risk a lot by doing this sort of experiment. So I’m interested in the answers and I don’t know. Like I said, if I was to base everything on the knowledge that I have currently of neuroscience, then the easiest explanation is that this is probably an illusion. But again, I don’t know."

He said that in October this year. The article in the OP is from August this year. I would have to assume that he does not see that as conclusive evidence, if he is still saying that he doesnt know the answer.

Beyond that what they have offered is what someone said someone said they experienced. No one detected anything with any types of scientific device or recorded anything. Its the same old story just rehashed and taken as proof by those that want to believe in NDE. It isnt science at all and this thread is in the wrong forum.
Click to expand...

I dont think its conclusive either, but Im not ready to dismiss it out of hand because it challenges some preconcieved notion

And yes, its in the right section of the forum. It was a legitmate Scientific study. Bias which is what your exibiting doesn't belong in this section of the forum.
 
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RickJames3000 said:
Hmm... the Breitbart of the UK believes that brain activity lasts for several seconds after death.
That's, umm... not especially groundbreaking.

Now if only that rag can detect brain activity in its living readers...
Now that would be... remarkable!
Click to expand...

They already know there's brain activity after the heart stops beating, and Breibart of the Uk wasn't the one who did the study.
 
Fenton said:
I dont think its conclusive either, but Im not ready to dismiss it out of hand because it challenges some preconcieved notion

And yes, its in the right section of the forum. It was a legitmate Scientific study. Bias which is what your exibiting doesn't belong in this section of the forum.
Click to expand...

I see that either you are new to this subject or because of your bias (like Dr. Sam Parnia) you just simply refuse to believe that this has already been addressed. And unfortunately for Dr. Sam Parnia it just makes him look like a biased idiot. Though he at leasts seems to grasp that outside of nutjob NDE believer circles he really has nothing to stand on. But the believers just lap up his books and who is he to turn the money his making off of that crowd.

http://www.cell.com/trends/cognitiv...ieve/pii/S1364661311001550?showall=true&cc=y=


"There is nothing paranormal about near-death experiences: how neuroscience can explain seeing bright lights, meeting the dead, or being convinced you are one of them"


https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/peace-of-mind-near-death/

"Out-of-body experiences are also now known to be common during interrupted sleep patterns that immediately precede sleeping or waking. For instance, sleep paralysis, or the experience of feeling paralyzed while still aware of the outside world, is reported in up to 40 percent of all people and is linked with vivid dreamlike hallucinations that can result in the sensation of floating above one's body. A 2005 study found that out-of-body experiences can be artificially triggered by stimulating the right temporoparietal junction in the brain, suggesting that confusion regarding sensory information can radically alter how one experiences one's body."


I have severe narcolepsy I experience what you are calling a Near Death Experience on a daily basis. I do not die or come near to dying while I have sleep paralysis. SO yes I am biased through daily experience.
 
 
FreedomFromAll said:
I see that either you are new to this subject or because of your bias (like Dr. Sam Parnia) you just simply refuse to believe that this has already been addressed. And unfortunately for Dr. Sam Parnia it just makes him look like a biased idiot. Though he at leasts seems to grasp that outside of nutjob NDE believer circles he really has nothing to stand on. But the believers just lap up his books and who is he to turn the money his making off of that crowd.

http://www.cell.com/trends/cognitiv...ieve/pii/S1364661311001550?showall=true&cc=y=


"There is nothing paranormal about near-death experiences: how neuroscience can explain seeing bright lights, meeting the dead, or being convinced you are one of them"


https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/peace-of-mind-near-death/

"Out-of-body experiences are also now known to be common during interrupted sleep patterns that immediately precede sleeping or waking. For instance, sleep paralysis, or the experience of feeling paralyzed while still aware of the outside world, is reported in up to 40 percent of all people and is linked with vivid dreamlike hallucinations that can result in the sensation of floating above one's body. A 2005 study found that out-of-body experiences can be artificially triggered by stimulating the right temporoparietal junction in the brain, suggesting that confusion regarding sensory information can radically alter how one experiences one's body."


I have severe narcolepsy I experience what you are calling a Near Death Experience on a daily basis. I do not die or come near to dying while I have sleep paralysis. SO yes I am biased through daily experience.
Click to expand...

Yes, they can simulate OBE's by stimulating the pineal gland with DMT, which the pineal gland secretes on its own, but what does that have to do with this study ?

Anyway, did the partucipants in these artificial OBE's accurately decribe their surroundings and the actions of those around them while they were sedated ?

You know, like the 53 year old participant that described in detail what was going on around him while he was clinically dead.

And why are NDE experiences so similar from one person to the other ? These similarities even transcend religious beliefs and cultures.

Truth is, you have no more proof of the validity of NDEs than anyone else yet you claim this physician is biased just because he offered up a explanation that challenges you preconcieved notions.
 
Fenton said:
Yes, they can simulate OBE's by stimulating the pineal gland with DMT, which the pineal gland secretes on its own, but what does that have to do with this study ?

Anyway, did the partucipants in these artificial OBE's accurately decribe their surroundings and the actions of those around them while they were sedated ?

You know, like the 53 year old participant that described in detail what was going on around him while he was clinically dead.

And why are NDE experiences so similar from one person to the other ? These similarities even transcend religious beliefs and cultures.

Truth is, you have no more proof of the validity of NDEs than anyone else yet you claim this physician is biased just because he offered up a explanation that challenges you preconcieved notions.
Click to expand...

Those are just stories that someone told you. There is no way for you to prove them to be real. That is because it wasnt actual science it was pseudoscience.
 
Bob N said:
Hospital begs to differ. :shrug:
Click to expand...

Sure hospitals dont make that kind of mistakes do they? The thing is that it isnt so easy of thing as you would think to determine if someone is dead.



Mississippi man who woke up in body bag 2 weeks ago has died - CBS News

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/14/waking-morgue-death-janina-kolkiewicz

Why Hospitals And Families Still Struggle To Define Death : Shots - Health News : NPR

Anyways no one has ever comeback from the dead for one simply reason: if they can use their brain they were never dead.

Determination of Death Act Summary

The Uniform Brain Death Act simply established that the "irreversible cessation of all functioning of the brain, including the brain stem" is death"

See if you "come back to life" it was reversible meaning you were not dead.
 
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