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Fluid Tests Hint at Concrete Quantum Reality

jmotivator

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https://www.quantamagazine.org/20140624-fluid-tests-hint-at-concrete-quantum-reality/

"For nearly a century, “reality” has been a murky concept. The laws of quantum physics seem to suggest that particles spend much of their time in a ghostly state, lacking even basic properties such as a definite location and instead existing everywhere and nowhere at once. Only when a particle is measured does it suddenly materialize, appearing to pick its position as if by a roll of the dice.

This idea that nature is inherently probabilistic — that particles have no hard properties, only likelihoods, until they are observed — is directly implied by the standard equations of quantum mechanics. But now a set of surprising experiments with fluids has revived old skepticism about that worldview. The bizarre results are fueling interest in an almost forgotten version of quantum mechanics, one that never gave up the idea of a single, concrete reality.

The experiments involve an oil droplet that bounces along the surface of a liquid. The droplet gently sloshes the liquid with every bounce. At the same time, ripples from past bounces affect its course. The droplet’s interaction with its own ripples, which form what’s known as a pilot wave, causes it to exhibit behaviors previously thought to be peculiar to elementary particles — including behaviors seen as evidence that these particles are spread through space like waves, without any specific location, until they are measured."


And later

"In each test, the droplet wends a chaotic path that, over time, builds up the same statistical distribution in the fluid system as that expected of particles at the quantum scale. But rather than resulting from indefiniteness or a lack of reality, these quantum-like effects are driven, according to the researchers, by “path memory.” Every bounce of the droplet leaves a mark in the form of ripples, and these ripples chaotically but deterministically influence the droplet’s future bounces and lead to quantum-like statistical outcomes. The more path memory a given fluid exhibits — that is, the less its ripples dissipate — the crisper and more quantum-like the statistics become. “Memory generates chaos, which we need to get the right probabilities,” Couder explained. “We see path memory clearly in our system. It doesn’t necessarily mean it exists in quantum objects, it just suggests it would be possible.”



Fascinating article on potentially theory breaking new experiments in Quantum mechanics.
 
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https://www.quantamagazine.org/20140624-fluid-tests-hint-at-concrete-quantum-reality/

"For nearly a century, “reality” has been a murky concept. The laws of quantum physics seem to suggest that particles spend much of their time in a ghostly state, lacking even basic properties such as a definite location and instead existing everywhere and nowhere at once. Only when a particle is measured does it suddenly materialize, appearing to pick its position as if by a roll of the dice.

This idea that nature is inherently probabilistic — that particles have no hard properties, only likelihoods, until they are observed — is directly implied by the standard equations of quantum mechanics. But now a set of surprising experiments with fluids has revived old skepticism about that worldview. The bizarre results are fueling interest in an almost forgotten version of quantum mechanics, one that never gave up the idea of a single, concrete reality.

The experiments involve an oil droplet that bounces along the surface of a liquid. The droplet gently sloshes the liquid with every bounce. At the same time, ripples from past bounces affect its course. The droplet’s interaction with its own ripples, which form what’s known as a pilot wave, causes it to exhibit behaviors previously thought to be peculiar to elementary particles — including behaviors seen as evidence that these particles are spread through space like waves, without any specific location, until they are measured."


And later

"In each test, the droplet wends a chaotic path that, over time, builds up the same statistical distribution in the fluid system as that expected of particles at the quantum scale. But rather than resulting from indefiniteness or a lack of reality, these quantum-like effects are driven, according to the researchers, by “path memory.” Every bounce of the droplet leaves a mark in the form of ripples, and these ripples chaotically but deterministically influence the droplet’s future bounces and lead to quantum-like statistical outcomes. The more path memory a given fluid exhibits — that is, the less its ripples dissipate — the crisper and more quantum-like the statistics become. “Memory generates chaos, which we need to get the right probabilities,” Couder explained. “We see path memory clearly in our system. It doesn’t necessarily mean it exists in quantum objects, it just suggests it would be possible.”



Fascinating article on potentially theory breaking new experiments in Quantum mechanics.
if the vatican will approve the legitamcy of this then we can know for sure this is real
 
The old, deterministic alternative is not mentioned in most textbooks; most people in the field haven’t heard of it. Sheldon Goldstein, a professor of mathematics, physics and philosophy at Rutgers University and a supporter of pilot-wave theory, blames the “preposterous” neglect of the theory on “decades of indoctrination.” At this stage, Goldstein and several others noted, researchers risk their careers by questioning quantum orthodoxy.



ROFL. Dogmatism.
 
https://www.quantamagazine.org/20140624-fluid-tests-hint-at-concrete-quantum-reality/

"For nearly a century, “reality” has been a murky concept. The laws of quantum physics seem to suggest that particles spend much of their time in a ghostly state, lacking even basic properties such as a definite location and instead existing everywhere and nowhere at once. Only when a particle is measured does it suddenly materialize, appearing to pick its position as if by a roll of the dice.

This idea that nature is inherently probabilistic — that particles have no hard properties, only likelihoods, until they are observed — is directly implied by the standard equations of quantum mechanics. But now a set of surprising experiments with fluids has revived old skepticism about that worldview. The bizarre results are fueling interest in an almost forgotten version of quantum mechanics, one that never gave up the idea of a single, concrete reality.

The experiments involve an oil droplet that bounces along the surface of a liquid. The droplet gently sloshes the liquid with every bounce. At the same time, ripples from past bounces affect its course. The droplet’s interaction with its own ripples, which form what’s known as a pilot wave, causes it to exhibit behaviors previously thought to be peculiar to elementary particles — including behaviors seen as evidence that these particles are spread through space like waves, without any specific location, until they are measured."


And later

"In each test, the droplet wends a chaotic path that, over time, builds up the same statistical distribution in the fluid system as that expected of particles at the quantum scale. But rather than resulting from indefiniteness or a lack of reality, these quantum-like effects are driven, according to the researchers, by “path memory.” Every bounce of the droplet leaves a mark in the form of ripples, and these ripples chaotically but deterministically influence the droplet’s future bounces and lead to quantum-like statistical outcomes. The more path memory a given fluid exhibits — that is, the less its ripples dissipate — the crisper and more quantum-like the statistics become. “Memory generates chaos, which we need to get the right probabilities,” Couder explained. “We see path memory clearly in our system. It doesn’t necessarily mean it exists in quantum objects, it just suggests it would be possible.”



Fascinating article on potentially theory breaking new experiments in Quantum mechanics.
That is interesting as hell, an incredible concept of reality... and if I am getting the concept correctly, and please correct me if I am off here, that seemingly random chaos seems to balance out onto the same concrete path so that the variables come together to achieve arrival at the same destination.
 
That is interesting as hell, an incredible concept of reality... and if I am getting the concept correctly, and please correct me if I am off here, that seemingly random chaos seems to balance out onto the same concrete path so that the variables come together to achieve arrival at the same destination.

Essentially yes. It describes a reality where some of the strangeness of quantum mechanics is explainable, but due to the complexity of such a world, would still seem unpredictable. For this theory to be true it would require the universe to be driven by a quantum medium in which ripples created by particles never dissipate, constituting a "memory" of the quantum state of all particles forever.
 
Essentially yes. It describes a reality where some of the strangeness of quantum mechanics is explainable, but due to the complexity of such a world, would still seem unpredictable. For this theory to be true it would require the universe to be driven by a quantum medium in which ripples created by particles never dissipate, constituting a "memory" of the quantum state of all particles forever.
Yes, I will admit to having a hard time trying to wrap my little brain around the vastness of such a universe, ha ha. Impossible. But its great to try to imagine possibilities.

It would also seem to assist, if not able to actually at this stage confirm, something that I believe in, that being there are universal truths.

Gracias.
 
https://www.quantamagazine.org/20140624-fluid-tests-hint-at-concrete-quantum-reality/

"For nearly a century, “reality” has been a murky concept. The laws of quantum physics seem to suggest that particles spend much of their time in a ghostly state, lacking even basic properties such as a definite location and instead existing everywhere and nowhere at once. Only when a particle is measured does it suddenly materialize, appearing to pick its position as if by a roll of the dice.

This idea that nature is inherently probabilistic — that particles have no hard properties, only likelihoods, until they are observed — is directly implied by the standard equations of quantum mechanics. But now a set of surprising experiments with fluids has revived old skepticism about that worldview. The bizarre results are fueling interest in an almost forgotten version of quantum mechanics, one that never gave up the idea of a single, concrete reality.

The experiments involve an oil droplet that bounces along the surface of a liquid. The droplet gently sloshes the liquid with every bounce. At the same time, ripples from past bounces affect its course. The droplet’s interaction with its own ripples, which form what’s known as a pilot wave, causes it to exhibit behaviors previously thought to be peculiar to elementary particles — including behaviors seen as evidence that these particles are spread through space like waves, without any specific location, until they are measured."


And later

"In each test, the droplet wends a chaotic path that, over time, builds up the same statistical distribution in the fluid system as that expected of particles at the quantum scale. But rather than resulting from indefiniteness or a lack of reality, these quantum-like effects are driven, according to the researchers, by “path memory.” Every bounce of the droplet leaves a mark in the form of ripples, and these ripples chaotically but deterministically influence the droplet’s future bounces and lead to quantum-like statistical outcomes. The more path memory a given fluid exhibits — that is, the less its ripples dissipate — the crisper and more quantum-like the statistics become. “Memory generates chaos, which we need to get the right probabilities,” Couder explained. “We see path memory clearly in our system. It doesn’t necessarily mean it exists in quantum objects, it just suggests it would be possible.”



Fascinating article on potentially theory breaking new experiments in Quantum mechanics.

Interesting article. I read a article recently that challenged the decoherence of quantum superpositional states via mere observation or measurement.

That it wasnt the attempt at observation that caused a quantum superpositional state to decohere, it was any outside environmental interference. They still have no idea why interference causes decoherence.

Scientists have also recently increased the distance of quantum superposition at the macroscopic level from 1 to 54 cm.
https://www.google.com/amp/phys.org/news/2015-12-half-meter-quantum-superposition-macroscopic.amp?client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us
 
One of the Grad students I worked with in the 80's was doing his thesis on something like this,
I recall the limitation on testing was a result of the boundary conditions of the testing container.
Basically you always get some level of reflected energy, from the earlier ripples, which interfere with the new ripples.
 
One of the Grad students I worked with in the 80's was doing his thesis on something like this,
I recall the limitation on testing was a result of the boundary conditions of the testing container.
Basically you always get some level of reflected energy, from the earlier ripples, which interfere with the new ripples.

I think in this case the reflected ripples would represent the inbound ripples from neighboring particles.
 
I think in this case the reflected ripples would represent the inbound ripples from neighboring particles.
Maybe, but where it may get messed up is the phase of the reflected ripple, is always the same,
whereas the phase from a neighboring particles would be random.
 
Maybe, but where it may get messed up is the phase of the reflected ripple, is always the same,
whereas the phase from a neighboring particles would be random.

Yeah, I was thinking of that too. I think they would have to rerun the test with pools with irregular boundaries or, preferably shifting boundaries, and see if the concentric circles continue to form.
 
Yeah, I was thinking of that too. I think they would have to rerun the test with pools with irregular boundaries or, preferably shifting boundaries, and see if the concentric circles continue to form.
It sounds like a neat concept.
 
Quantum mechanics is friggin weird.
 
Essentially yes. It describes a reality where some of the strangeness of quantum mechanics is explainable, but due to the complexity of such a world, would still seem unpredictable. For this theory to be true it would require the universe to be driven by a quantum medium in which ripples created by particles never dissipate, constituting a "memory" of the quantum state of all particles forever.

This is not an explanation of anything. It simply adds new questions. What is this mysterious new property of the universe that gives it eternal path memory?

The "orthodox" interpretation of quantum physics that has been taught for decades is "Just do the calculations and don't ask questions." It is good that some questions are being asked, but a century of research strongly suggests that there is no one concrete reality. Everett's 1957 "Many Worlds" interpretation suggested that reality was a continuous multi-dimensional infinity of realities. When an observer makes a measurement, his awareness simply "locks on" to a particular slice of that reality, which soon fades. The equations of quantum physics simply give the probability of which slice his awareness will land in.

I don't like Dark Energy either. These are simply words which explain nothing.
 
This is not an explanation of anything. It simply adds new questions. What is this mysterious new property of the universe that gives it eternal path memory?

This is how theoretical physics works. The current accepted explanation for the behavior of subatomic particles, that they exist everywhere until we observe them at which point they choose a location, creates quite a few questions itself.

The "orthodox" interpretation of quantum physics that has been taught for decades is "Just do the calculations and don't ask questions." It is good that some questions are being asked, but a century of research strongly suggests that there is no one concrete reality. Everett's 1957 "Many Worlds" interpretation suggested that reality was a continuous multi-dimensional infinity of realities. When an observer makes a measurement, his awareness simply "locks on" to a particular slice of that reality, which soon fades. The equations of quantum physics simply give the probability of which slice his awareness will land in.

Right, but surely you see that this theory has its own set of questions? Abandoning a theory because it creates a new set of questions isn't science. The reason this test and theory has gained a little interest is specifically because it would answer one of the more prominent questions put before quantum physics for which the current answer is to shrug.
 
The experiments involve an oil droplet that bounces along the surface of a liquid. The droplet gently sloshes the liquid with every bounce. At the same time, ripples from past bounces affect its course. The droplet’s interaction with its own ripples, which form what’s known as a pilot wave, causes it to exhibit behaviors previously thought to be peculiar to elementary particles — including behaviors seen as evidence that these particles are spread through space like waves, without any specific location, until they are measured."


Specifically to the Walkers and Pilot waves.

Visuals with explanation for those who are interested.


 
This is how theoretical physics works. The current accepted explanation for the behavior of subatomic particles, that they exist everywhere until we observe them at which point they choose a location, creates quite a few questions itself.



Right, but surely you see that this theory has its own set of questions? Abandoning a theory because it creates a new set of questions isn't science. The reason this test and theory has gained a little interest is specifically because it would answer one of the more prominent questions put before quantum physics for which the current answer is to shrug.

OK, let's call this new property of the universe the "Memoriferous Ether."
 
OK, let's call this new property of the universe the "Memoriferous Ether."

The force already has a name. They are called "pilot waves" and were first theorized in the 1927.

The theory is that particles create waves in space time like a pebble creates ripples on a pond, and those ripples in turn influence the motion of other particles that come in contact with them. In some ways the theory is like the theory of gravity waves.
 
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The force already has a name. They are called "pilot waves" and were first theorized in the 1927.

The theory is that particles create waves in space time like a pebble creates ripples on a pond, and those ripples in turn influence the motion of other particles that come in contact with them. In some ways the theory is like the theory of gravity waves.

Even if this is true, how does it relate to quantum phenomena such as the entanglement of two particles? If two particles are "entangled" and then separated by a great distance, a change in one particle still results in an INSTANT related change in the other particle, even though any signal at the speed of light might take years to pass between them. In some sense, the two particles must still be close together, even though they are separated by lightyears in :"our" reality.
 
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