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Apple replacement phones... are used phones.

Once he opened the packaged and started using it and if he did use it then it was indeed used.

In the US once you open the package the item is considered used. You can no longer sell it as a new item.

Which is what Apple has claimed .. that the replacement was new... because they did not say that it was not. So the expectation from the buyer is that it is.

I don't see much room for apple here unless they decide to just pull out of Denmark.

That would be idiotic.. Denmark is one of their most loyal markets... total Apple fanboy market. But this practice is also illegal or highly problematic across Europe... so it wont end here (as the Dutch example shows).
 
Which is what Apple has claimed .. that the replacement was new... because they did not say that it was not. So the expectation from the buyer is that it is.



That would be idiotic.. Denmark is one of their most loyal markets... total Apple fanboy market. But this practice is also illegal or highly problematic across Europe... so it wont end here (as the Dutch example shows).

it isn't problematic at all since this is how most companies operate in general.
any replacement item is a refurbished.
 
it isn't problematic at all since this is how most companies operate in general.
any replacement item is a refurbished.

Not in Europe.. you might like getting cheated in the US, but in Europe there are consumer protection laws.
 
Not in Europe.. you might like getting cheated in the US, but in Europe there are consumer protection laws.

Yep. VW, the ministries responsible for regulating them and the public prosecutors demonstrated European consumer protection to the T.
 
There is a brewing scandal coming out of Europe. In Holland Apple has been busted for giving refurbished phones to customers who had to have a defective phone replaced within warranty.

Dutch court orders Apple to replace defective iPhone with new, not refurbished, phone - DutchNews.nl

In Denmark, they have just admitted as much in a similar court case. Now this case...is even worse.

Apple violates Danish laws - and is now suing an iPhone user for winning a consumer rights case against the company - Business Insider Nordic

According to Danish law (and EU), if a product fails due to fabrication fault within the first 2 years (Dutch article says 1 year, but that is Apple policy and illegal), the product has to be replaced. The understanding in Scandinavia and standing rule, is that it is replaced with a similar new product.

Now in Denmark there was a guy who got a "lemon" product from Apple (an iPhone) and he under Danish law can get it replaced. Problem is that the replacement he got, was refurbished and that was against Danish law. So he sued, and won.. and guess what Apple did? Sued the guy... wtf?

Apple countersuing Dane who beat it in court | The Post

And in this court, Apple has admitted that if you hand in a broken Apple product that is no fault of you, but the fault of Apple, then Apple will give you a used aka refurbished device back... now talk about sleazy.... Not only did you buy a broken product, but when you expect to get it replaced by a new working product, you actually get a used refurbished product that in some cases also does not work..... the cases and comments about similar experiences with Apple are all over social media.

Each country has its own laws, of course. IN Germany, which is after all the big country between Holland and Denmark, the law would require a replacement, if the product was functionally badly defective. It would not require a new replacement. I know for fact that the mobile phone provider that I use will usually use refurbished phones to replace defective ones. I suspect the other large supplier does too.

Also, the allegation Apple is acting illegally by providing a one year full warranty and not a two year one is incorrect in Germany, at least. The service provider is responsible for the second year.
 
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it isn't problematic at all since this is how most companies operate in general.
any replacement item is a refurbished.

I can confirm that for German mobile suppliers.
 
Each country has its own laws, of course. IN Germany, which is after all the big country between Holland and Denmark, the law would require a replacement, if the product was functionally badly defective. It would not require a new replacement. I know for fact that the mobile phone provider that I use will usually use refurbished phones to replace defective ones. I suspect the other large supplier does too.

The issue here is that people expect a "new" one and then get handed a used one. It is all about the wording and the expectations and the courts will side with the consumer on this issue... I have no doubt on that.

In your case, I suspect the "refurbished" part depends on time gone since you bought. Many stores here in Spain they just replace the product within 15-30 days with a new one or refund the money no questions asked. After that, they will attempt to "fix" it, and if they are to replace it they some times say you will get a refurbished replacement or a new. The consumer should (IMO) be told.. "hey we will replace your defective device, but it will be with an used/refurbished version".... and I would bet many consumers would demand money back, which is within their rights. Basically consumers should have the option and information that they are getting their new broken device replaced with an used one.

Also, the allegation Apple is acting illegally by providing a one year full warranty and not a two year one is incorrect in Germany, at least. The service provider is responsible for the second year.

It has been 2 years for 20+ years and Apple has already been fined for this bull****. Back when the iPod came out the battery lasted 1 year and 1 day, and cost 75 dollars to get replaced. The EU fined Apple for this practice and suddenly overnight the batteries started to last the minimum 2 years...

But actually there is a "but" in the 2 years.. it is actually first 6 months it is no questions asked, and after the 6 months it is up to the consumer to prove that it was a fabrication fault that caused the error. Now in 99% of cases the companies just accept the 2 years "no questions asked"... only the real asshole companies demand proof.

Consumer protection is important in Europe, and when a company gets into a case like this... screwing over the consumer ... the PR is a nightmare. The negativity about Apple in Danish media at the moment... is huge, especially relative to the usual "cant do anything wrong".
 
Not in Europe.. you might like getting cheated in the US, but in Europe there are consumer protection laws.

No one is cheating.

Refurbished not equal to used.
This is a common misconception.

Refurbished means that there was something wrong with a device. The device was fixed back to new status.
It simply can't be sold as new as it has already been opened.
 
No one is cheating.

Refurbished not equal to used.
This is a common misconception.

Refurbished means that there was something wrong with a device. The device was fixed back to new status.
It simply can't be sold as new as it has already been opened.

Wrong it is used and refurbished. It was sold to someone that returned it because it was defective. Hence used and defective but supposedly fixed. Problem is that there are several pending cases in Denmark, where people have gotten replacement devices that also did not work (some several times) and Apples admitting that they were giving out used devices is Apple admitting wrongdoing according to Danish law.
 
Wrong it is used and refurbished. It was sold to someone that returned it because it was defective. Hence used and defective but supposedly fixed. Problem is that there are several pending cases in Denmark, where people have gotten replacement devices that also did not work (some several times) and Apples admitting that they were giving out used devices is Apple admitting wrongdoing according to Danish law.

Refurbished is not used. It is a repaired item that is sold again.
However it can't be sold as new as it has already been opened.

The repair fixes any issue that was claimed with the device.
 
Refurbished is not used. It is a repaired item that is sold again.

This.. and then you contradict yourself..

However it can't be sold as new as it has already been opened.

Yes, because some one bought it and cracked the stickers or similar that guaranteed that it was a new product.. and hence it is USED!

The repair fixes any issue that was claimed with the device.

Irrelevant, it is still used. But far from always does the "repair" fix issues.
 
Well update to this thread.

Apple lost big time yet again, and have given up. They are changing policy in Denmark at least, and from now on a new phone means a brand new phone. It also means, that the many many iPhone users in Denmark can now go back to their seller and demand that their phone (which has been replaced at some point), gets replaced with a new new phone.

This is a massive blow to Apple in one of their most loyal markets. Will it spread to the rest of Europe.. well considering the laws are similar, then it could.
 
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