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Race differences in average IQ are largely genetic [W:957]

Sorry mods__I didn't notice this moron was suspended_

Thank you_ :thumbs:
 
Empirica said:
This guy is stalking me from other websites and is way out of line and way off subject in this thread!
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Harassing members across various boards is against DP rules.
 
Empirica said:
Moderator!
Is this a political debate site or a personal attack site????

This guy is stalking me from other websites and is way out of line and way off subject in this thread!

If he doesn't wish to discuss the issue, why is he still here???

Is there a problem with having a civilized discussion here without having some pathetic nutcase disrupting the thread?

And why am I even having to point this out?__This has been going on for several days__Get this idiot out of here and tell him to save it for the sewer!
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Did you know that sometimes, in prison, when a rapist or child molester is being assaulted, the guards purposefully drag their feet in responding to it? Funny, no?
 
Wake said:
Harassing members across various boards is against DP rules.
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Tomfoolery not only harasses me across various boards but across various websites_

I am not here to attack other people's personal lives nor to defend mine__Everybody got that?

I'm here simply to pass time and have a little clean fun with some verbal jousting on the issues_

I can understand an occasional flare of tempers but some of these idiots go way overboard_

Sorry Wake, I wasn't yelling at you__I was just using your post as a vehicle to get my message out_
 
RadicalModerate said:
Did you know that sometimes, in prison, when a rapist or child molester is being assaulted, the guards purposefully drag their feet in responding to it? Funny, no?
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You bet it's funny__Did you learn this from your position as a prison guard or the child molester?
 
Empirica said:
I am not here to attack other people's personal lives nor to defend mine__Everybody got that?

I'm here simply to pass time and have a little clean fun with some verbal jousting on the issues_

I can understand an occasional flare of tempers but some of these idiots go way overboard_
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Some members have no scruples. Instead of discussing the message they attack the messager.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Everyone needs to stick to the topic and stop attacking each other before more action is taken in this thread.
 
Let me Try and bring this thing on topic.. again.
For some I know this is an emotional issue and the great majority of personal attacks, with the exception of a notable and unfortunate post I PMed the poster on, have been by the side opposite to that of the OP.

I think others would probably be posting their views agreeing with the proposition but it's simply too hot of a potato and everyone on the affirmative side has been scurrilously attacked Multiple times. Who wants to enter in that tarring circumstance?
I think those confident enough in their non-hateful feelings can enter here, while those who do harbor venom (as opposed to acknowledging evolutionary differences) are more likely to be posting, in say, the salacious Treyvon strings on one side or the under cover of 'law'.

In Any case...

Race differences in intelligence: how research changed my mind to overcome the “all races are equal” dogma
Race differences in intelligence: how research changed my mind to overcome the “all races are equal” dogma. | Human Stupidity: Irrationality, Self Deception
I grew up indoctrinated by political correctness. Like a large part of citizens in Western countries I was brainwashed: Races do not exist, all are equal. Saying anything different, saying that there are racial differences, is racism, a crime.
In school I heard disparaging remarks about Artur Jensen and other “unscientific” “dishonest” “cheating” scientists doing faulty research about race differences. The Bell Curve by Richard Herrnstein and Charles Murray actually looked fairly convincing to me, but if even President Bill Clinton denounced it, there must be something wrong about it.

There always was some complex theory to explain away the IQ differences:
*different culture
*parental expectation
*mother’s malnourishment
*IQ measurements are racially and culturally biased​

My opinion changed when I read about trans-racial adoption studies. That was the last drop that really disproved all these desperate attempts to explain away racial differences in intelligence.

“The best evidence for the genetic basis of race-IQ differences comes from trans-racial adoption studies of Oriental children, Black children, and Mixed-Race children. All these children have been adopted by White parents at an early age and have grown up in middle-class White homes.”

....Korean and Vietnamese babies from poor backgrounds, many of whom were malnourished, were adopted by White American and Belgian families. When they grew up, they excelled in school. The IQs of the adopted Oriental children were 10 or more points higher than the national average for the country they grew up in. Trans-racial adoption does not increase or decrease IQ. The three-way pattern of race differences in IQ remains.”​

In plain English: adopted Asian babies grew up to be very bright, adopted black babies grew up to have low intelligence. One more desperate argument that was posed to save the “racial equality” dogma:
[........]
That did it for me. It destroyed my ingrained indoctrinated beliefs that all races must be equal. It opened up my mind to the possibility that there could be racial differences.

Before we go on, may I stress a few more points

*I have no axe to grind against blacks. I am not interested in proving that blacks are stupid or inferior. I am not a white supremacist
*I have an axe to grind against dogmatism, blindness, stupidity. I have an axe to grind against the catholic church for repressing Galileo’s truth about the moving and revolving earth. And I have an axe to grind about political correctness repressing the truth, repressing research.
*This site is about human stupidity versus truth and consciousness
*Rushton, though much maligned, is not some crazy cook but one of the most prestigious research scientists to date: Rushton holds two doctorates from the University of London (Ph.D. and D.Sc) and is a Fellow of the John Simon Guggenheim Foundation, the American Association for the Advancement of Science, and the American, British, and Canadian Psychological Associations. He is also a member of the Behavior Genetics Association, the Human Behavior and Evolution Society, and the Society for Neuroscience. Rushton has published six books and nearly 200 articles. In 1992 the Institute for Scientific Information ranked him the 22nd most published psychologist and the 11th most cited. Professor Rushton is listed in Who. Some of Rushtons scientific publications can be found on his University page: The University of Western Ontario
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mbig said:
Let me Try and bring this thing on topic.. again.
For some I know this is an emotional issue and the great majority of personal attacks, with the exception of a notable and unfortunate post I PMed the poster on, have been by the side opposite to that of the OP.

I think others would probably be posting their views agreeing with the proposition but it's simply too hot of a potato and everyone on the affirmative side has been scurrilously attacked Multiple times. Who wants to enter in that tarring circumstance?
I think those confident enough in their non-hateful feelings can enter here, while those who do harbor venom (as opposed to acknowledging evolutionary differences) are more likely to be posting, in say, the salacious Treyvon strings on one side or the under cover of 'law'.

In Any case...

Race differences in intelligence: how research changed my mind to overcome the “all races are equal” dogma
Race differences in intelligence: how research changed my mind to overcome the “all races are equal” dogma. | Human Stupidity: Irrationality, Self Deception
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And this my friend is why I consider Dr Rushton the supreme authority on this subject_

There is no hatred or racism in his motivations, only the curiosity of a scientist in search of the truth_

And he has paid a heavy price for that truth at the hands of radicals who worship at the alter of Political Correctness_
 
Empirica said:
And this my friend is why I consider Dr Rushton the supreme authority on this subject_

There is no hatred or racism in his motivations, only the curiosity of a scientist in search of the truth_

And he has paid a heavy price for that truth at the hands of radicals who worship at the alter of Political Correctness_
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Prominent scientists will always pay a heavy price for speaking out about race. Look at James Watson, the co-discover of the DNA helix and Noble Prize winner. Several years ago, he stated that blacks have a lower I.Q than other races on average (a statement which has been supported by countless studies), and he was basically called a racist by the media and the far Left. Certain people don't want to accept truths that are obvious to others.
 
Graffias said:
Prominent scientists will always pay a heavy price for speaking out about race. Look at James Watson, the co-discover of the DNA helix and Noble Prize winner. Several years ago, he stated that blacks have a lower I.Q than other races on average (a statement which has been supported by countless studies), and he was basically called a racist by the media and the far Left. Certain people don't want to accept truths that are obvious to others.
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Dr. James Watson's groundbreaking discoveries and contributions to humanity were forgotten the moment he violated the strict taboos of Political Correctness_

At that instant he became a "racist" according to PC standards but 500 years earlier it would have been "heretic"_

Great minds such as Galileo and Bruno had to contend with The Inquisition, created by radical religious zealots_

Modern free thinkers such as Dr Watson must contend with Political Correctness, created by radical leftist zealots_

Unfortunately the far-left believes the truth to be important only when it is beneficial to their Progressive agenda_
 
samsmart said:
Or we could treat people as the individuals they are without regards to their race.
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rhinefire said:
Been tried, didn't work.
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I agree people should indeed treat other people they come in contact with on a personal level as "individuals"_

But society as a whole would benefit enormously by using Genetic Science as a starting point to remedy many of its social problems_

Especially in a modern world where every race of people from every continent are coming together to live and work_
 
Empirica said:
I agree people should indeed treat other people they come in contact with on a personal level as "individuals"_

But society as a whole would benefit enormously by using Genetic Science as a starting point to remedy many of its social problems_

Especially in a modern world where every race of people from every continent are coming together to live and work_
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No.

Society as a whole should treat every individual as an individual.

It doesn't, but it should.
 
The Mark said:
No.

Society as a whole should treat every individual as an individual.

It doesn't, but it should.
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What genetic science has shown us about the human race is absolutely remarkable to say the least_

Just about every physical and mental trait and ability as well as health issues are the result of genetics_

We could be happier, healthier, more successful and each of us living life to the fullest of our abilities_

Society could solve many of its crime, poverty, addiction and racial issues which create so many barriers_

To continue down this path of Political Correctness only serves to hinder progress and stagnate humanity_

We now have the knowledge to advance the human race to its next level, all we lack is the courage to do so_
 
Empirica said:
What genetic science has shown us about the human race is absolutely remarkable to say the least_

Just about every physical and mental trait and ability as well as health issues are the result of genetics_

We could be happier, healthier, more successful and each of us living life to the fullest of our abilities_

Society could solve many of its crime, poverty, addiction and racial issues which create so many barriers_

To continue down this path of Political Correctness only serves to hinder progress and stagnate humanity_

We now have the knowledge to advance the human race to its next level, all we lack is the courage to do so_
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You appear to be advocating for assignment of or encouragement toward specific/selected jobs/activities based on what genetic science indicates individuals would be most suited for.

Do I misunderstand?
 
The Mark said:
You appear to be advocating for assignment of or encouragement toward specific/selected jobs/activities based on what genetic science indicates individuals would be most suited for.

Do I misunderstand?
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It doesn't have to go that route at all, and I see little danger of people with IQ's under 85 aspiring to be brain surgeons any more than paraplegics aspiring to play football in the NFL_

I believe most people are well aware of their physical and mental limitations and would be able to compete for advancement in an environment with others of similar abilities_

People who truly want to get the most out of life could choose from a variety of opportunities which they could then be trained and educated to do and advance at their own speed_

The major difference is people would know pretty much what their limitations are, instead of being told that whitey hates them because of the color of their skin or some other foolishness_

People will come to realize that their only limits are their abilities and the mental barriers that slows their advancement or even gives them an excuse to not try in the first place_

Basically, rather than treating people like mindless dependent victims, they would be treated like human beings capable of dealing with reality and move them forward accordingly, rather than standing still stagnating_
 
Empirica said:
It doesn't have to go that route at all, and I see little danger of people with IQ's under 85 aspiring to be brain surgeons any more than paraplegics aspiring to play football in the NFL_
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That was not actually one of the "dangers" I was worried about.

Empirica said:
I believe most people are well aware of their physical and mental limitations and would be able to compete for advancement in an environment with others of similar abilities_
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I'm not so sure about the first, but the latter kind of enforces itself when someone tries to go outside their limitations.

Empirica said:
People who truly want to get the most out of life could choose from a variety of opportunities which they could then be trained and educated to do and advance at their own speed_
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I'd say we already have that, to a degree.

Empirica said:
The major difference is people would know pretty much what their limitations are, instead of being told that whitey hates them because of the color of their skin or some other foolishness_
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Knowing your limitations must be an individual thing, but you seem to be advocating for some kind of....general announcement from someone about "hey, your limitations are probably X if Y is true"... Not sure I follow...

As for the last bit, that's a cultural thing, in the main, or so I understand it. So you're saying that various cultural issues need to be resolved in order for people to stop blaming others for their problems? Sorry, but that's a human thing, not a cultural thing. Or perhaps all of human culture is ****ed.

Empirica said:
People will come to realize that their only limits are their abilities and the mental barriers that slows their advancement or even gives them an excuse to not try in the first place_
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People won't, but they will get pissed at the people telling them they're not smart enough or whatever to do X, so they cannot try.
Besides which, if we're talking about studies that show X race has slightly less IQ on average, the key word here is SLIGHTLY. As in, not worth mentioning beyond a study, really.

Empirica said:
Basically, rather than treating people like mindless dependent victims, they would be treated like human beings capable of dealing with reality and move them forward accordingly, rather than standing still stagnating_
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That all sounds so good and nice when you put it that way.

But what I'm hearing out of this is some kind of weird government-control thing, wherein your genetics determine what you are capable of, and thus what you are encouraged to do.

I don't like it.
 
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