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U.S. Tells Russia To Stop 'Inflicting Suffering On Crimean People'

Rogue Valley

Rogue Valley

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U.S. Tells Russia To Stop 'Inflicting Suffering On Crimean People'

DCDB9B9F-B287-4F70-8B55-40752765204A_cx0_cy0_cw84_w408_r1.jpg

Kristina Kvien.

5/18/20
KYIV -- The acting U.S. ambassador to Kyiv, Kristina Kvien, has called on Russia to “stop its legacy of inflicting suffering on the people of Crimea," as Ukraine commemorated the victims of Soviet dictator Josef Stalin's mass deportation of Crimean Tatars from their homeland in 1944. Kvien issued a video statement on Twitter on May 18, which since 2016 has been marked in Ukraine as the Day of Commemoration of Victims of the Genocide of the Crimean Tatars. Crimean Tatars, rights activists, and Western governments say Russia has subjected Crimean Tatars and others who opposed annexation to abuse, discrimination, and politically motivated prosecution on false charges. In her statement, Kvien said that the deportation of the Crimean Tatars 76 years ago "caused unimaginable trauma, suffering, and the death of thousands." "That trauma and suffering is only deepened by Russia's modern-day occupation of Crimea,” the U.S. diplomat added. The United States “does not and will not recognize Russia's purported annexation of Crimea,” and will remain its Crimea-related sanctions in place until Russia returns control of the peninsula to Ukraine, she said. Meanwhile, the foreign ministers of Ukraine, Estonia, Georgia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Poland issued a joint statement condemning Russia's “aggressive policy towards Ukraine and new repressions” against Crimean Tatars.
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The Russian government has persecuted the Crimean Tatar people in Crimea nonstop since its illegal annexation in 2014. Homes are ransacked, businesses forced to close, raids scoop up dozens of people, many Tatars are "disappeared", and by my count at least 78 Crimean Tatars are imprisoned in Russia on trumped up charges. This does not include Tatars imprisoned in Crimea itself. They are also persecuted because they are of the Muslim faith and Moscow intends to diminish all religions except the Russian Orthodox religion.
 
Rogue Valley said:
U.S. Tells Russia To Stop 'Inflicting Suffering On Crimean People'

DCDB9B9F-B287-4F70-8B55-40752765204A_cx0_cy0_cw84_w408_r1.jpg

Kristina Kvien.



The Russian government has persecuted the Crimean Tatar people in Crimea nonstop since its illegal annexation in 2014. Homes are ransacked, businesses forced to close, raids scoop up dozens of people, many Tatars are "disappeared", and by my count at least 78 Crimean Tatars are imprisoned in Russia on trumped up charges. This does not include Tatars imprisoned in Crimea itself. They are also persecuted because they are of the Muslim faith and Moscow intends to diminish all religions except the Russian Orthodox religion.
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Odd that Muslim is the second "most widely professed" religion in Russia with 9.5 million (6.5% of total pop) as of a 2012 survey. Throw-in an estimated 2 million more from majority Muslim Russian republics of Chechnya and Ingushetia, which were not surveyed due to social unrest, and the total is more than such Muslim majority countries as Libya, Kuwait, Jordan, Lebanon and UAE.
 
bluesmoke said:
Odd that Muslim is the second "most widely professed" religion in Russia with 9.5 million (6.5% of total pop) as of a 2012 survey. Throw-in an estimated 2 million more from majority Muslim Russian republics of Chechnya and Ingushetia, which were not surveyed due to social unrest, and the total is more than such Muslim majority countries as Libya, Kuwait, Jordan, Lebanon and UAE.
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It's much easier to persecute if you have a captive demographic. No Muslim hoards will be arriving from Moscow to ally with the Tatars in Crimea.

Kadyrov in Chechnya persecutes in a different manner, with elements of a Taliban government.
 
Rogue Valley said:
It's much easier to persecute if you have a captive demographic. No Muslim hoards will be arriving from Moscow to ally with the Tatars in Crimea.

Kadyrov in Chechnya persecutes in a different manner, with elements of a Taliban government.
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Odd, still. Putin has been generally allowing of Muslims and Tatars in Russia. Not that he's terribly allowing of even Russians. I don't know about Crimea. He's never been good for anybody in Crimea nor Ukraine, going back to Stalin, for that matter. Muslims were mostly supportive of Putin, and his going into Syria, and derisive of Obama. Most Tatars live in Russia, not in the Russian republic of Tatarstan. I don't know that they are being persecuted in Russia. Any info on that?
 
Rogue Valley said:
U.S. Tells Russia To Stop 'Inflicting Suffering On Crimean People'

DCDB9B9F-B287-4F70-8B55-40752765204A_cx0_cy0_cw84_w408_r1.jpg

Kristina Kvien.



The Russian government has persecuted the Crimean Tatar people in Crimea nonstop since its illegal annexation in 2014. Homes are ransacked, businesses forced to close, raids scoop up dozens of people, many Tatars are "disappeared", and by my count at least 78 Crimean Tatars are imprisoned in Russia on trumped up charges. This does not include Tatars imprisoned in Crimea itself. They are also persecuted because they are of the Muslim faith and Moscow intends to diminish all religions except the Russian Orthodox religion.
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not true...
 
bluesmoke said:
Odd, still. Putin has been generally allowing of Muslims and Tatars in Russia. Not that he's terribly allowing of even Russians. I don't know about Crimea. He's never been good for anybody in Crimea nor Ukraine, going back to Stalin, for that matter. Muslims were mostly supportive of Putin, and his going into Syria, and derisive of Obama. Most Tatars live in Russia, not in the Russian republic of Tatarstan. I don't know that they are being persecuted in Russia. Any info on that?
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The Crimean Tatars are a Turkic people historically associated with the Ottoman Kingdom. The Tatars of Tatarstan (Volga Tatars) are historically associated with the Khanate of Kazan.

The two Tatar subdivisions have different histories.
 
Rogue Valley said:
The Crimean Tatars are a Turkic people historically associated with the Ottoman Kingdom. The Tatars of Tatarstan (Volga Tatars) are historically associated with the Khanate of Kazan.

The two Tatar subdivisions have different histories.
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But both groups are Muslim and the Russian people pretty much looked upon the Volga Tatars as being Turkic. Is the Russian regime treating the Volga Tatars more "favorably" than the Crimean Tatars? It seems Putin and Russians in general are "tolerant" of Muslims, including Volga Tatars, though certainly Moscow is not tolerant of Muslims and certainly Putin is not tolerant of anything Crimean and the Crimean Tatars in particular.
 
bluesmoke said:
But both groups are Muslim and the Russian people pretty much looked upon the Volga Tatars as being Turkic. Is the Russian regime treating the Volga Tatars more "favorably" than the Crimean Tatars?
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Tatarstan is a federal subject of the Russian Federation. In the minds of ethnic Russians, the Volga Tatars are considered descendants of the Mongol Horde which conquered and ruled Russia in the 13th century. The Volga Tatars have longed for independence. When Moscow recognized the breakaway (with Kremlin help) region of South Ossetia, Tatarstan filed for independence with Moscow and the United Nations. Both have ignored the petition.

Crimean Tatars are a separate people with a separate history and they are not related to the Volga Tatars.

bluesmoke said:
It seems Putin and Russians in general are "tolerant" of Muslims, including Volga Tatars, though certainly Moscow is not tolerant of Muslims and certainly Putin is not tolerant of anything Crimean and the Crimean Tatars in particular.
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Russians in general frown upon those who are not Russian Orthodox. This xenophobia is especially true of the Muslims. The Putin regime is tolerant of different ethnicities as long as they know their place and don't rock the boat. The Crimean Tatars began repatriating to Crimea after it became a sovereign part of Ukraine in 1954. They were accepted as citizens of Ukraine and were allowed to form their own parliament to govern their people, and had their own television and radio stations. Their status changed after Russia invaded and illegally annexed Crimea in 2014. They haven't forgotten that the Russians had deported all them them in 1944. That is etched in their collective memory and their history. Tens of thousands died. Now they are under the Russian boot again. Most will not swear allegiance to Moscow. They say they are citizens of Ukraine. They have been persecuted since the 2014 annexation. The Mejlis (Parliament) was closed and television/radio stations were shut down. Many have fled to mainland Ukraine.

From Stalin to Putin: The Crimean Tatars face a new era of Kremlin persecution

Crimean Tatars Feel Familiar Threat of Persecution

U.S. condemns Russia’s persecution of Crimean Tatars

Human Rights Watch | Crimea: Persecution of Crimean Tatars Intensifies

Abductions, Torture, 'Hybrid Deportation': Crimean Tatar Activist Describes Six Years Under Russian Rule
 
Rogue Valley said:
Tatarstan is a federal subject of the Russian Federation. In the minds of ethnic Russians, the Volga Tatars are considered descendants of the Mongol Horde which conquered and ruled Russia in the 13th century. The Volga Tatars have longed for independence. When Moscow recognized the breakaway (with Kremlin help) region of South Ossetia, Tatarstan filed for independence with Moscow and the United Nations. Both have ignored the petition.

Crimean Tatars are a separate people with a separate history and they are not related to the Volga Tatars.



Russians in general frown upon those who are not Russian Orthodox. This xenophobia is especially true of the Muslims. The Putin regime is tolerant of different ethnicities as long as they know their place and don't rock the boat. The Crimean Tatars began repatriating to Crimea after it became a sovereign part of Ukraine in 1954. They were accepted as citizens of Ukraine and were allowed to form their own parliament to govern their people, and had their own television and radio stations. Their status changed after Russia invaded and illegally annexed Crimea in 2014. They haven't forgotten that the Russians had deported all them them in 1944. That is etched in their collective memory and their history. Tens of thousands died. Now they are under the Russian boot again. Most will not swear allegiance to Moscow. They say they are citizens of Ukraine. They have been persecuted since the 2014 annexation. The Mejlis (Parliament) was closed and television/radio stations were shut down. Many have fled to mainland Ukraine.

From Stalin to Putin: The Crimean Tatars face a new era of Kremlin persecution

Crimean Tatars Feel Familiar Threat of Persecution

U.S. condemns Russia’s persecution of Crimean Tatars

Human Rights Watch | Crimea: Persecution of Crimean Tatars Intensifies

Abductions, Torture, 'Hybrid Deportation': Crimean Tatar Activist Describes Six Years Under Russian Rule
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Yeah. I already got that the Volga and Crimean Tatars are unrelated. But I do believe that the Russian people look at both as being Mongol descendant. Anyway, my question was if the Russian regime is treating the Volga Tatars more favorably than the Crimean Tatars. I know Putin is treating the Crimean Tatars harshly, but what of the Volga Tatars, who have historically supported Putin in the past? Putin has been tolerant of Muslims in the past, why turn on them now? How is Moscow so independent of Putin that they could ignore Muslims if Putin thinks otherwise?
 
Ukrainian authorities are observing Crimea from space. They have signed an agreement to exchange satellite data with Western countries.
It's only logical. After all, space is the closest point from the ukrainian authorities to the Crimea.
 
bluesmoke said:
Yeah. I already got that the Volga and Crimean Tatars are unrelated. But I do believe that the Russian people look at both as being Mongol descendant. Anyway, my question was if the Russian regime is treating the Volga Tatars more favorably than the Crimean Tatars. I know Putin is treating the Crimean Tatars harshly, but what of the Volga Tatars, who have historically supported Putin in the past? Putin has been tolerant of Muslims in the past, why turn on them now? How is Moscow so independent of Putin that they could ignore Muslims if Putin thinks otherwise?
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As I stated in a previous post, the Putin regime tolerates the Volga Tatars as long as they stay in their assigned lane (a subjected ethnicity).
 
Rogue Valley said:
As I stated in a previous post, the Putin regime tolerates the Volga Tatars as long as they stay in their assigned lane (a subjected ethnicity).
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So, the Crimean Tatars, the Moscow Muslims nor the Muslims of Russia in general are staying in their assigned lanes? And, just to be sure, to be explicit, are the Volga Tatars being tolerated? Your input will be most appreciated.
 
bluesmoke said:
So, the Crimean Tatars, the Moscow Muslims nor the Muslims of Russia in general are staying in their assigned lanes? And, just to be sure, to be explicit, are the Volga Tatars being tolerated? Your input will be most appreciated.
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I'm getting tired of this running in circles. I already explained to you the differences between Crimean Tatars and Volga Tatars, and how they are treated differently by the Putin regime and why.
 
Rogue Valley said:
I'm getting tired of this running in circles. I already explained to you the differences between Crimean Tatars and Volga Tatars, and how they are treated differently by the Putin regime and why.
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My impression was that you implied Muslims were being persecuted, most certainly by Moscow, and that being a “captive demographic” made that persecution easier. Yet, unlike Crimean Tatars, both Volga Tatars and all other Muslims have been rather subservient, they didn’t “rock the boat” as you put it, as best I can tell (other than Salafite/fundamentalist Muslim). So, why would they be persecuted? I can’t find out by my research that they are even being persecuted, except, perhaps, by Moscow. Based on your posting on this subject, I thought you knew. My mistake in thinking either that or in assuming you implied that Muslims were being persecuted for being Muslim:

“They (Crimean Tatars) are also persecuted because they are of the Muslim faith and Moscow intends to diminish all religions except the Russian Orthodox religion.”

“It's much easier to persecute if you have a captive demographic (Muslim)”

“xenophobia (by Russians) is especially true of the Muslims. The Putin regime is tolerant of different ethnicities as long as they know their place and don't rock the boat.”

Please excuse any circling I may have caused.
 
bluesmoke said:
My impression was that you implied Muslims were being persecuted, most certainly by Moscow, and that being a “captive demographic” made that persecution easier. Yet, unlike Crimean Tatars, both Volga Tatars and all other Muslims have been rather subservient, they didn’t “rock the boat” as you put it, as best I can tell (other than Salafite/fundamentalist Muslim). So, why would they be persecuted? I can’t find out by my research that they are even being persecuted, except, perhaps, by Moscow. Based on your posting on this subject, I thought you knew. My mistake in thinking either that or in assuming you implied that Muslims were being persecuted for being Muslim:

“They (Crimean Tatars) are also persecuted because they are of the Muslim faith and Moscow intends to diminish all religions except the Russian Orthodox religion.”

“It's much easier to persecute if you have a captive demographic (Muslim)”

“xenophobia (by Russians) is especially true of the Muslims. The Putin regime is tolerant of different ethnicities as long as they know their place and don't rock the boat.”

Please excuse any circling I may have caused.
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For the last time. The Crimean Tatars are being persecuted by Moscow because they do not accept Russia's illegal annexation of Crimea. Most of the arrested Crimean Tatars belong to Crimean Solidarity, a loose association of human rights lawyers, relatives, and supporters of victims of political repression. Russian authorities thus portray Crimean Tatars who oppose Russia’s illegal occupation as ‘terrorists’ and ‘extremists’. They arrest Crimean Tatar activists on terrorism charges, supposedly for belonging to Hizb ut-Tahrir (Party of Liberation), the controversial pan-Islamist movement that is banned in Russia as a ‘terrorist’ organization but is legal in Ukraine. There are hundreds of Crimean Tatars in Russian jails within Crimea, and at least 79 Tatars have been transferred to Russia proper (it is a Geneva Conventions crime to remove citizens from an occupied territory). Tatars have been ‘disappeared’ and tortured. It is also true that ethnic Russians are highly xenophobic and distrustful of all who are not Russian Orthodox. Besides persecuting the Tatar Muslims in Crimea, the Russian occupation forces are also making things very difficult for Catholic and Protestant places of worship etc. If they receive even one cent of support money from abroad they are considered ‘foreign agents’ under Russian law and can be shut down and arrested. Another reason for the Russian animosity of the Crimean Tatars is because many Russians believe the Tatars assisted the Nazis during WWII. I'm sure some probably did. But to carry such a grudge against an entire people for this supposed crime, 80 years after the fact, is just wrong on many levels.
 
US politicians sometimes say darnest things, for example "The African command of the US armed forces (Africom) accused Russia of sending military aircraft to Libya," writes the BBC.
Paradox: the AFRICAN command of US considers it possible to accuse someone of a military presence in Africa.
 
Rogue Valley said:
For the last time. The Crimean Tatars are being persecuted by Moscow because they do not accept Russia's illegal annexation of Crimea. Most of the arrested Crimean Tatars belong to Crimean Solidarity, a loose association of human rights lawyers, relatives, and supporters of victims of political repression. Russian authorities thus portray Crimean Tatars who oppose Russia’s illegal occupation as ‘terrorists’ and ‘extremists’. They arrest Crimean Tatar activists on terrorism charges, supposedly for belonging to Hizb ut-Tahrir (Party of Liberation), the controversial pan-Islamist movement that is banned in Russia as a ‘terrorist’ organization but is legal in Ukraine. There are hundreds of Crimean Tatars in Russian jails within Crimea, and at least 79 Tatars have been transferred to Russia proper (it is a Geneva Conventions crime to remove citizens from an occupied territory). Tatars have been ‘disappeared’ and tortured. It is also true that ethnic Russians are highly xenophobic and distrustful of all who are not Russian Orthodox. Besides persecuting the Tatar Muslims in Crimea, the Russian occupation forces are also making things very difficult for Catholic and Protestant places of worship etc. If they receive even one cent of support money from abroad they are considered ‘foreign agents’ under Russian law and can be shut down and arrested. Another reason for the Russian animosity of the Crimean Tatars is because many Russians believe the Tatars assisted the Nazis during WWII. I'm sure some probably did. But to carry such a grudge against an entire people for this supposed crime, 80 years after the fact, is just wrong on many levels.
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Yeah. Ethnic Russians (originally Swedes) are highly xenophobic. Any religion outside of Russian Orthodox (yeah, anything includes Catholics and Protestants) are distrusted by them, the ethnic Russians. Yeah, Crimean Tatars, who are greatly Muslim, and mostly ethnic Russian, are persecuted all to Hell.

But most Muslim are not Crimean Tatar. Nor are they Volga Tatar, which you didn’t even mention in your post. And what the Putin govt does, the Moscow govt does, and the Russian people do/think are diff things that you haven’t addressed that I’ve clearly delineated in my questioning. You didn’t mention a damn thing about the actual treatment of Muslim in general, sans Volga and Crimean Tatar. ARE THEY BEING PERSECUTED? THERE IS NO INDICATION BY MY RESEARCH, WITH THE ONE EXCEPTION OF TINY NUMBER I GAVE, THAT THEY ARE ROCKING THE BOAT. SO, IF THEY ARE BEING PERSECUTED, AS YOU IMPLY, PLEASE DESCRIBE THEIR ROCKING OF THE BOAT.

We’re not going in a circle. You are straying off-path and not giving a forthright answer.
 
bluesmoke said:
Yeah. Ethnic Russians (originally Swedes) are highly xenophobic. Any religion outside of Russian Orthodox (yeah, anything includes Catholics and Protestants) are distrusted by them, the ethnic Russians. Yeah, Crimean Tatars, who are greatly Muslim, and mostly ethnic Russian, are persecuted all to Hell.

But most Muslim are not Crimean Tatar. Nor are they Volga Tatar, which you didn’t even mention in your post. And what the Putin govt does, the Moscow govt does, and the Russian people do/think are diff things that you haven’t addressed that I’ve clearly delineated in my questioning. You didn’t mention a damn thing about the actual treatment of Muslim in general, sans Volga and Crimean Tatar. ARE THEY BEING PERSECUTED? THERE IS NO INDICATION BY MY RESEARCH, WITH THE ONE EXCEPTION OF TINY NUMBER I GAVE, THAT THEY ARE ROCKING THE BOAT. SO, IF THEY ARE BEING PERSECUTED, AS YOU IMPLY, PLEASE DESCRIBE THEIR ROCKING OF THE BOAT.

We’re not going in a circle. You are straying off-path and not giving a forthright answer.
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We're done here. Ask TypicalRussian or Ringo Stalin. They're probably more to your liking.
 
Rogue Valley said:
We're done here. Ask TypicalRussian or Ringo Stalin. They're probably more to your liking.
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But what you imply is that with them I'll get a bad answer. With you I just got no answer. Like I said, I can't find an answer by online research. I can find no evidence of Russian govt persecution of Muslims in general, nor any clarification from you as to anything you've said I've misconstrued. Any implication of said persecution of ALL Muslim is, as a claim, unfounded.
 
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