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Thread: How Donald Trump Is Making It Harder to End the War in Ukraine

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    Re: How Donald Trump Is Making It Harder to End the War in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by lemmiwinx View Post
    Maybe.
    That would have been incredibly stupid.

    We promised Ukraine if they gave up their nukes we'd have their backs.
    We wanted Ukraine to give up their nukes because

    A) They didn't have the resources to take care of them

    B) A poor country without proper nuclear protection protocols is just begging for a warhead to get lost on the black market.

    C) They weren't even Ukrainian nukes to begin with; they were Soviet property that the Russians couldn't take care of.

    D) Given the disintegration of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in 2014, the idea that they would have been able to successfully carry out a preemptive nuclear strike to halt the Russians is questionable at best.

    Ukraine gave up their nukes and Putin marched in while Obama sat there with his dick in his hand.
    So Crimea is worth starting a nuclear war over?
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    Re: How Donald Trump Is Making It Harder to End the War in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    That would have been incredibly stupid.



    We wanted Ukraine to give up their nukes because

    A) They didn't have the resources to take care of them

    B) A poor country without proper nuclear protection protocols is just begging for a warhead to get lost on the black market.

    C) They weren't even Ukrainian nukes to begin with; they were Soviet property that the Russians couldn't take care of.

    D) Given the disintegration of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in 2014, the idea that they would have been able to successfully carry out a preemptive nuclear strike to halt the Russians is questionable at best.



    So Crimea is worth starting a nuclear war over?
    No but it would be nice if people would quit calling Trump a Russian asset when it was Obama who bent the knee to Putin's let's say territorial aggressiveness. While many Democrat politicians and their kids were getting rich over there in Ukraine.

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    Re: How Donald Trump Is Making It Harder to End the War in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by lemmiwinx View Post
    No but it would be nice if people would quit calling Trump a Russian asset when it was Obama who bent the knee to Putin's let's say territorial aggressiveness. While many Democrat politicians and their kids were getting rich over there in Ukraine.
    So what exactly should the Obama Administration have done? Go to war with Russia?
    “We were all of us cogs in a great machine which sometimes rolled forward, nobody knew where, sometimes backwards, nobody knew why.”

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    Re: How Donald Trump Is Making It Harder to End the War in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    How to waste billions of dollars worth of military hardware 101.
    Putin would agree with you.

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    Re: How Donald Trump Is Making It Harder to End the War in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    So what exactly should the Obama Administration have done? Go to war with Russia?
    What Obama should have done is have approved serious military aide to Ukraine upon the first rumblings over Crimea. Perhaps if he had done so the Donbass incursion by Russian forces might not have occurred.

    Supplying Ukraine with blankets and first aid kits is a laughable response to Putin's Sudetenland styled annexations and invasions.

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    Re: How Donald Trump Is Making It Harder to End the War in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by lemmiwinx View Post
    No but it would be nice if people would quit calling Trump a Russian asset when it was Obama who bent the knee to Putin's let's say territorial aggressiveness. While many Democrat politicians and their kids were getting rich over there in Ukraine.
    Don't be ridiculous. On the day Obama announced sanctions against Russia for interfering with the election Trump had Flynn call the Russian ambassador and the sanctions got lost in the shuffle after the inauguration.
    Trump just positively aches to be included with despots and dictators and shows it every time he moves on foreign policy.
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    Can't keep FUBAR'n the economy if their a vaccine.

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    Re: How Donald Trump Is Making It Harder to End the War in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by maxparrish View Post
    Putin would agree with you.
    Quote Originally Posted by maxparrish View Post
    What Obama should have done is have approved serious military aide to Ukraine upon the first rumblings over Crimea. Perhaps if he had done so the Donbass incursion by Russian forces might not have occurred.

    Supplying Ukraine with blankets and first aid kits is a laughable response to Putin's Sudetenland styled annexations and invasions.
    Which would have been a great way to have hundreds of pieces of military hardware end up in Russian/Separatist hands.

    The Ukrainian Armed Forces collapsed in the face of the Russian invasion, with thousands of Ukrainian troops defecting to the other side or deserting their posts entirely. Within a few months of the invasion the Ukrainians could muster just 6,000 troops, barely a brigade worth of troops. It wasn't until the summer of 2014 that they had assembled a patch work fighting force of national guard units and volunteer battalions (many of whom were of dubious loyalty to the Kiev government and several had to disbanded afterwards), and this force was routed almost immediately after they came under Russian attack.

    No amount of military hardware can overcome a lack of skill and willing personnel. The Iraqis fielded an incredibly well armed force in 1991 and they fell apart in a few hours. The Saudis today field Abrams and Challengers and fly advanced western aircraft and they get routed by piss poor Houthi rebels. Give the Ukrainians the same amount of hardware and they will still fail. You cannot just buy your way into military competence.
    “We were all of us cogs in a great machine which sometimes rolled forward, nobody knew where, sometimes backwards, nobody knew why.”

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    Re: How Donald Trump Is Making It Harder to End the War in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by lemmiwinx View Post
    Crimea and eastern Ukraine were Obama's special gift to Putin. Somehow Trump is getting flak for his Ukraine policy but I don't see Putin making any more land grabs like that since Trump was elected. That's a positive right?
    Russian troops are invading Ukraine as we speak, and you’re pretending you don’t “See”?????????

    “Somehow” Trump is getting flak for sending his tv lawyer and two Russian bag men, all financed by Moscow, to undermine Ukranian leadership by running some idiotic sidebar scheme to force Kiev to announce and investigation into a potential rival in a US election.

    Whistling past the graveyard is a Trumpster specialty these days.

    To be fair, you’ve had three years to practice.

    And Trump’s behavior (which is not a policy) is designed to weaken Ukraine and destroy confidence in its ability to survive.

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    Re: How Donald Trump Is Making It Harder to End the War in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    Which would have been a great way to have hundreds of pieces of military hardware end up in Russian/Separatist hands.

    The Ukrainian Armed Forces collapsed in the face of the Russian invasion, with thousands of Ukrainian troops defecting to the other side or deserting their posts entirely. Within a few months of the invasion the Ukrainians could muster just 6,000 troops, barely a brigade worth of troops. It wasn't until the summer of 2014 that they had assembled a patch work fighting force of national guard units and volunteer battalions (many of whom were of dubious loyalty to the Kiev government and several had to disbanded afterwards), and this force was routed almost immediately after they came under Russian attack.

    No amount of military hardware can overcome a lack of skill and willing personnel. The Iraqis fielded an incredibly well armed force in 1991 and they fell apart in a few hours. The Saudis today field Abrams and Challengers and fly advanced western aircraft and they get routed by piss poor Houthi rebels. Give the Ukrainians the same amount of hardware and they will still fail. You cannot just buy your way into military competence.

    A full blown Russian invasion of Ukraine would be a long and bloody affair.

    After the Russians chased the Nazis out, Ukranian partisans kept the Red Army busy well into 1948.

    This time won’t be any different.

    We do have a vested interest in keeping the Russians confined inside their own borders. Particularly considering Putin’s behavior.

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    Re: How Donald Trump Is Making It Harder to End the War in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by TomFitz View Post
    Russian troops are invading Ukraine as we speak, and you’re pretending you don’t “See”?????????

    “Somehow” Trump is getting flak for sending his tv lawyer and two Russian bag men, all financed by Moscow, to undermine Ukranian leadership by running some idiotic sidebar scheme to force Kiev to announce and investigation into a potential rival in a US election.

    Whistling past the graveyard is a Trumpster specialty these days.

    To be fair, you’ve had three years to practice.

    And Trump’s behavior (which is not a policy) is designed to weaken Ukraine and destroy confidence in its ability to survive.
    Providing Jericho missiles and other direct military aid weakens Ukraine?

    Dang, the radical left views reality through the most bizarre filters known to man.
    Nancy Pelosi: March, 2019
    "Impeachment is so divisive to the country that unless there’s something so compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan, I don’t think we should go down that path, because it divides the country,”

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