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Thread: How Donald Trump Is Making It Harder to End the War in Ukraine

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    Re: How Donald Trump Is Making It Harder to End the War in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    The Obama Administration and the EU floated a military response back in 2014...and it was shut down after Moscow threatened nuclear retaliation if that happened.

    So no. Ukraine's in a tough spot. They can't hope to win a war with Russia, and nobody is willing to sacrifice their capital cities over Donbass and Crimea. Zelensky has few options, and I think he's ultimately making the best choice he can.
    The Ukraine isn't a Trump creation, although I don't expect he'll make anything better either.

    If the EU is so concerned about the Ukraine, then let them handle Russia. Oh wait.....

    The United States ends up getting the blame anyways when things go south.

    Those earmarks regarding the Javelins is nothing but a......... wink wink.......and I think that you and I know this already.
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    Re: How Donald Trump Is Making It Harder to End the War in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by RetiredUSN View Post
    The Ukraine isn't a Trump creation, although I don't expect he'll make anything better either.
    Indeed, it is doubtful.

    If the EU is so concerned about the Ukraine, then let them handle Russia.
    And do what? Go to war with Russia?

    Those earmarks regarding the Javelins is nothing but a......... wink wink.......and I think that you and I know this already.
    American weapons being used to kill Russian troops and destroy Russian vehicles is an escalation.
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    Re: How Donald Trump Is Making It Harder to End the War in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    Indeed, it is doubtful.



    And do what? Go to war with Russia?



    American weapons being used to kill Russian troops and destroy Russian vehicles is an escalation.
    1. The javelins are a wink wink.

    2. The Euro's will be full of criticism of the USA no matter what moves we make on the situation. It's their move if they are so very concerned about Russian expansion in
    Europe. Why do the anti tank weapons have to come from the USA to begin with if Euro's are so concerned?
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    Re: How Donald Trump Is Making It Harder to End the War in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by RetiredUSN View Post
    Why do the anti tank weapons have to come from the USA to begin with if Euro's are so concerned?
    The US Congress insisted.

    What the Trump administration doesn't say out loud, is that there are 'conditions' tied to the Javelin sales.

    They must be stored in Western Ukraine, far from the eastern front. Basically useless if Russian mechanized/tank columns pour over the border. They are more of a psychological boost/deterrent.

    The anti-tank weapon that Ukraine uses on the JFO is the Stugna-P, a portable laser-guided system and actually an excellent tank killer.

    They also have the Ukraine made Item-115/210 anti-tank missiles mounted on BMP's and MBT's.

    Truth be told, I have no idea why they order US Javelin's. They would be far better served buying ELINT/ECM/ECCM systems.


    Michigan is the new Ukraine. Their governor, the woman....shes going to go through some things.

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    Re: How Donald Trump Is Making It Harder to End the War in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Common Sense 1 View Post
    Lets remember what President Obama did when Russia invaded Crimea?

    He refused to send weapons in an aid package. And some how this is Trump's fault?
    Only in the resist world!!


    White House rebuffs Ukraine appeal for weapons
    Sept 2014

    WASHINGTON — The White House refused to include weapons in an aid package announced Thursday for embattled Ukraine despite an impassioned plea by Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko for more military assistance.

    White House rebuffs Ukraine appeal for weapons
    Supporting Ukraine against Trump's irrational ego driven fears does not require that anyone defend the equally short-sided and manipulative policies of the Obama administration. The Obama administration may have been driven by the usual left-wing antipathy to aggressive action against former communist or quasi-socialist regimes, but the result has been the same: sacrificing a potential ally and emerging democratic state to the hands of a KGB driven state by a former head of the KGB.

    Trump may be, in the long run, the best thing that has happened to Ukraine IF ONLY because it has forced the spineless left of the Democratic party to retreat from its affection for a toothless Obama styled defense of the country and perhaps forced it to actually support serious Ukraine aide.

    Bottom line is both Trump and Obama have been horribly wrong (even despicable) in their tepid defense of Ukraine. In confronting new styled fascism, one of them has the backbone of Chamberlin (or Kerry in the first Gulf war), and the other a fellow-traveling respect for a strong-man militarist nationalist.

    Till such time as a President and Congress unreservedly supports Ukraine with more than a handful of anti-tank missiles (such as the latest in technology for field artillery, EW warfare, ground attack aircraft, and AA suppression) then all politicians who oppose this must be harshly condemned.

    Show me a Charlie Wilson in either party, and only then will they get my respect.

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    Re: How Donald Trump Is Making It Harder to End the War in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Common Sense 1 View Post
    Lets remember what President Obama did when Russia invaded Crimea?

    He refused to send weapons in an aid package. And some how this is Trump's fault?
    Only in the resist world!!


    White House rebuffs Ukraine appeal for weapons
    Sept 2014

    WASHINGTON The White House refused to include weapons in an aid package announced Thursday for embattled Ukraine despite an impassioned plea by Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko for more military assistance.

    White House rebuffs Ukraine appeal for weapons
    This was right after Russian forces had crossed into the Donbass region, but before the full Russian invasion of eastern Ukraine. I do not recall what the thinking in NATO and in the Eastern European capitals was at the time.

    You conveniently forgot that Obama imposed (and the Senate ratified) tough sanctions against Russia, which (along with low oil prices) have had a devastating impact on the Russian economy.

    You also conveniently forget to mention that Trump promised the he would do away with those sanctions, which is how Michael Flynn wound up in hot water.

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    Re: How Donald Trump Is Making It Harder to End the War in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by maxparrish View Post
    Till such time as a President and Congress unreservedly supports Ukraine with more than a handful of anti-tank missiles (such as the latest in technology for field artillery, EW warfare, ground attack aircraft, and AA suppression) then all politicians who oppose this must be harshly condemned.
    How to waste billions of dollars worth of military hardware 101.
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    Re: How Donald Trump Is Making It Harder to End the War in Ukraine

    Crimea and eastern Ukraine were Obama's special gift to Putin. Somehow Trump is getting flak for his Ukraine policy but I don't see Putin making any more land grabs like that since Trump was elected. That's a positive right?

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    Re: How Donald Trump Is Making It Harder to End the War in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by lemmiwinx View Post
    Crimea and eastern Ukraine were Obama's special gift to Putin.
    What should the Obama Administration done in your mind? Go to war with Russia over Crimea?
    We were all of us cogs in a great machine which sometimes rolled forward, nobody knew where, sometimes backwards, nobody knew why.

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    Re: How Donald Trump Is Making It Harder to End the War in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    What should the Obama Administration done in your mind? Go to war with Russia over Crimea?
    Maybe. We promised Ukraine if they gave up their nukes we'd have their backs. Ukraine gave up their nukes and Putin marched in while Obama sat there with his dick in his hand.

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