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Thread: ‘No Miracle, But We’ve Advanced’: Russia-Ukraine Peace Summit Results

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    ‘No Miracle, But We’ve Advanced’: Russia-Ukraine Peace Summit Results

    ‘No Miracle, But We’ve Advanced’: Russia-Ukraine Peace Summit Results


    Normandy Four meeting yesterday in Paris. Vladimir Putin, Emmanuel Macron, Angela Merkel, Volodmyr Zelenskyy.

    12/10/19
    Russian President Vladimir Putin and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy held their first face-to-face meeting Monday at a four-way summit in Paris with the French and German leaders as mediators. The last time the so-called Normandy summit met to work out a deal to end the conflict between Ukrainian forces and Russian-backed separatists in the Donbass region of eastern Ukraine was in 2016. “It’s still a draw,” Zelenskiy was quoted as saying when asked which side emerged with a victory after the latest talks. The four leaders plan to meet again in four months. Here’s a look at what the sides have agreed on at the marathon bilateral and four-way talks:

    Prisoner exchange
    — Putin, Zelenskiy and the French and German leaders agreed to push for an "all for all" prisoner exchange by the end of the year, according to a joint communique.

    — Zelenskiy said he expects 72 Ukrainian prisoners to return home in an all-for-all swap as soon as Dec. 24.

    Ceasefire
    — Putin and Zelenskiy agreed to commit to a full and comprehensive implementation of a ceasefire in eastern Ukraine before the end of 2019, according to the communique.

    — The sides have agreed on a troop withdrawal from three lines of contact by March 2020, German Chancellor Angela Merkel was quoted as saying.

    — Zelenskiy and Putin differed on what steps should be taken to restore Ukraine’s control of its Russian border. Putin insists that the separatist regions hold local elections first, while Zelenskiy says Ukraine needs to regain control of the border first.

    Gas transit
    — Zelenskiy said Ukraine and Russia had "unblocked" the issue of gas transit and the countries' advisers would work on the details of an agreement.

    — He said Kiev and Moscow could reach an agreement on a new gas transit deal before the end of the year, and saw scope for compromise between their respective demands.

    — Zelenskiy said that they had taken the option of a one-year deal off the table and that he asked for a 10-year deal.

    What they said
    — "Now we need to carry on working very, very hard, there is no question about that, but there is momentum again, movement," Merkel told a joint news conference.

    — "We have a lot of work to do but my feeling from this meeting here today is that there is goodwill to resolve difficult questions," Merkel said.

    — "We saw the differences today. We didn't find the miracle solution, but we have advanced on it," French President Emmanuel Macron said at the news conference.

    — "We know there are disagreements on the calendar and phasing and we had a long discussion on it, but we said let's give ourselves four months," Macron said.

    — "I think we will find something in the middle," Zelenskiy said in televised comments.
    Looks like the meeting mentions the political provisions of Minsk II but not the military ones. There was no mention at all of Crimea. Neglecting to demand the return of Crimea is a massive failure on the part of Zelenskyy. No "red lines" crossed so far. However, the 'Steinmeier formula' defining the algorithm for holding local elections in the Donbas may potentially be harmful to Ukraine if its final version would stipulate holding the voting without Ukrainian control of the territory and border. This is one of the "red lines" Zelenskyy said is non-negotiable.


    Crowds in Kyiv this morning waiting to hear if Zelenskyy crossed any 'red lines'. He did not.

    Related: Ukraine, Russia Agree On Full Cease-Fire, 'All-For-All' Prisoner Swap By End Of 2019


    Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman upheld his oath. Donald Trump has not.

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    Re: ‘No Miracle, But We’ve Advanced’: Russia-Ukraine Peace Summit Results

    Merkel looks bad. She probably couldn't care less at this point.

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    Re: ‘No Miracle, But We’ve Advanced’: Russia-Ukraine Peace Summit Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Drawdown View Post
    Merkel looks bad. She probably couldn't care less at this point.
    Merkel would like Zelenskyy/Ukraine to crumble so she can get on with Russia's NordStream2 gas pipeline and re-open Russia to German business.

    Macron is a Gaullist and believes we need Russia in our lives to enjoy a big European Kumbaya celebration.


    Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman upheld his oath. Donald Trump has not.

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    Re: ‘No Miracle, But We’ve Advanced’: Russia-Ukraine Peace Summit Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Valley View Post
    Merkel would like Zelenskyy/Ukraine to crumble so she can get on with Russia's NordStream2 gas pipeline and re-open Russia to German business.

    Macron is a Gaullist and believes we need Russia in our lives to enjoy a big European Kumbaya celebration.
    I think Charles de Gaulle wanted Europe ( led by France) to be a equal power to the United States and Russia.
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    Re: ‘No Miracle, But We’ve Advanced’: Russia-Ukraine Peace Summit Results

    What do Paris talks mean for the Russia-Ukraine peace process?

    Nine political commentators provide their impressions to the Atlantic Council of the Normandy Four meeting yesterday in Paris.


    Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman upheld his oath. Donald Trump has not.

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    Re: ‘No Miracle, But We’ve Advanced’: Russia-Ukraine Peace Summit Results

    While Putin talked peace in Paris, 3 more UA soldiers were KIA in eastern Ukraine. The youngest being 22 years old.



    Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman upheld his oath. Donald Trump has not.

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    Re: ‘No Miracle, But We’ve Advanced’: Russia-Ukraine Peace Summit Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Valley View Post
    Merkel would like Zelenskyy/Ukraine to crumble so she can get on with Russia's NordStream2 gas pipeline and re-open Russia to German business.

    Macron is a Gaullist and believes we need Russia in our lives to enjoy a big European Kumbaya celebration.
    I will be surprised if she makes it to the end of her term without quitting. If Trump is re-elected, Nord Stream 2 may stop at the border for awhile. Germany cannot afford a sanctions war with the US.

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    Re: ‘No Miracle, But We’ve Advanced’: Russia-Ukraine Peace Summit Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Valley View Post
    ‘No Miracle, But We’ve Advanced’: Russia-Ukraine Peace Summit Results


    Normandy Four meeting yesterday in Paris. Vladimir Putin, Emmanuel Macron, Angela Merkel, Volodmyr Zelenskyy.



    Looks like the meeting mentions the political provisions of Minsk II but not the military ones. There was no mention at all of Crimea. Neglecting to demand the return of Crimea is a massive failure on the part of Zelenskyy. No "red lines" crossed so far. However, the 'Steinmeier formula' defining the algorithm for holding local elections in the Donbas may potentially be harmful to Ukraine if its final version would stipulate holding the voting without Ukrainian control of the territory and border. This is one of the "red lines" Zelenskyy said is non-negotiable.


    Crowds in Kyiv this morning waiting to hear if Zelenskyy crossed any 'red lines'. He did not.

    Related: Ukraine, Russia Agree On Full Cease-Fire, 'All-For-All' Prisoner Swap By End Of 2019
    Thank you Donald Trump
    When the debate is lost, the loser resorts to slander.

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    Re: ‘No Miracle, But We’ve Advanced’: Russia-Ukraine Peace Summit Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Paradoxical View Post
    Thank you Donald Trump
    Donald Trump actions on July 25 and afterward weakened Zelenskyy's position at Paris and strengthened Putin's position.


    Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman upheld his oath. Donald Trump has not.

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    Re: ‘No Miracle, But We’ve Advanced’: Russia-Ukraine Peace Summit Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Valley View Post
    Donald Trump actions on July 25 and afterward weakened Zelenskyy's position at Paris and strengthened Putin's position.
    Funny thing that Ukraine doesn't know this. Someone should tell them. Maybe you can go over to Ukraine and let them know?
    When the debate is lost, the loser resorts to slander.

    Funniest joke of the decade from Calamity:
    Per John Brennan: Trump most ignorant, incompetent individual to hold presidency

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