• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

If you don't trust Church Authority, why do you trust the Bible?

PopeADope

Banned
Joined
May 12, 2016
Messages
203
Reaction score
12
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The Catholic Church decided the Canon of scripture and put together the first Christian Bible at the councils of Rome, Carthage, and hippo. If you don't trust Church Authority, what makes you think you have the correct Canon of scripture? Is there any scripture verses that declare all of those books to be inspired by God?

How do you know there wasn't scriptures that never made it into that volume?

If you accept that your Bible is the inspired word of God, and has the correct collection of books, you are indeed saying that you trust Church Authority outside of scripture.

So if the Bible is your final Authority, why doesn't the Bible say it is the final Authority? Why doesn't the Bible it's self give you any proof that it is the inspired word of God?
 
The Catholic Church decided the Canon of scripture and put together the first Christian Bible at the councils of Rome, Carthage, and hippo. If you don't trust Church Authority, what makes you think you have the correct Canon of scripture? Is there any scripture verses that declare all of those books to be inspired by God?

There is no reason to conclude that the councils got it right. What made them think they have the right cannon (hint: trick question)
How do you know there wasn't scriptures that never made it into that volume?

History shows that there were many such 'books' that never made it into the bible. You've never heard of Apocrypha? Books like the Gospel of Thomas?
If you accept that your Bible is the inspired word of God, and has the correct collection of books, you are indeed saying that you trust Church Authority outside of scripture.

Many protestants use bibles that are not the same as the Catholic bibles and they were shortened using a different standard of what should be in the bible. Really basic stuff here.
So if the Bible is your final Authority, why doesn't the Bible say it is the final Authority? Why doesn't the Bible it's self give you any proof that it is the inspired word of God?

The bible gives no such proof, but that's really rather irrelevant to anything. That's why it's called 'faith'.
 
There is no reason to conclude that the councils got it right. What made them think they have the right cannon (hint: trick question)

History shows that there were many such 'books' that never made it into the bible. You've never heard of Apocrypha? Books like the Gospel of Thomas?

Many protestants use bibles that are not the same as the Catholic bibles and they were shortened using a different standard of what should be in the bible. Really basic stuff here.

The bible gives no such proof, but that's really rather irrelevant to anything. That's why it's called 'faith'.

Of course I've heard of the apocrypha...my point is that the Bible is a Catholic book. Martin Luther got his Bible from the Catholic Church:
https://pinoyteaparty.wordpress.com/2012/11/30/the-bible/
 
And? The Protestants changed it, making it their own. Who originally compiled it is irrelevant.

And I'm asking Protestants what basis they have for believing they have the correct Canon
 
The Catholic Church decided the Canon of scripture and put together the first Christian Bible at the councils of Rome, Carthage, and hippo. If you don't trust Church Authority, what makes you think you have the correct Canon of scripture? Is there any scripture verses that declare all of those books to be inspired by God?

How do you know there wasn't scriptures that never made it into that volume?

If you accept that your Bible is the inspired word of God, and has the correct collection of books, you are indeed saying that you trust Church Authority outside of scripture.

So if the Bible is your final Authority, why doesn't the Bible say it is the final Authority? Why doesn't the Bible it's self give you any proof that it is the inspired word of God?

There are old documents to pull from and methods to use to vet various old texts (e.g. if one contradicts everything else then it's validity would be questioned). There is no need to rely on the Roman Catholic Church and, in fact, we shouldn't. Further, if you're going to believe in God then it would make sense that the message that He wanted to give to people would be preserved well enough to make that happen. If not, then what is the point?
 
There are old documents to pull from and methods to use to vet various old texts (e.g. if one contradicts everything else then it's validity would be questioned). There is no need to rely on the Roman Catholic Church and, in fact, we shouldn't. Further, if you're going to believe in God then it would make sense that the message that He wanted to give to people would be preserved well enough to make that happen. If not, then what is the point?

And Catholics believe God guides the Church councils. How do you know God didn't set up a visible authority outside of scripture to settle disputes about scripture? Such an authority is needed because scripture leads people to opposite beliefs and scripture verses make opposite claims.
 
And I'm asking Protestants what basis they have for believing they have the correct Canon

Its a guide for moraly center.
Cool thing about todays world we get to see all the different secs of christanity and their versions of scribture from their authoritarian churches and we can see that their bibles are the same as the ones we read from today in our sec. Probably because christanity was being practice for almost 400 years before churches (organized religion) showed up.
 
The Catholic Church decided the Canon of scripture and put together the first Christian Bible at the councils of Rome, Carthage, and hippo. If you don't trust Church Authority, what makes you think you have the correct Canon of scripture? Is there any scripture verses that declare all of those books to be inspired by God?

How do you know there wasn't scriptures that never made it into that volume?

If you accept that your Bible is the inspired word of God, and has the correct collection of books, you are indeed saying that you trust Church Authority outside of scripture.

So if the Bible is your final Authority, why doesn't the Bible say it is the final Authority? Why doesn't the Bible it's self give you any proof that it is the inspired word of God?


Different preaching styles.

I give my last pastor a year. He most always preached on the problems of local people and local politics. When he did preach a small part out of the bible ; it was only a few select books.

The purpose of preaching is to learn from the bible and the teachings of the bible itself - not local people and their faults and certainly not local politics and its fallacies.

So far , in about six years i have been to three churches. Each preacher.....preaching about the local problems - negative events such as drugs and murder. What was in the local.paper, and the drug overdose and murder rate.

If want to listen to bad news all day- I will turn on the cable news and watch that.

Preach on the bible, books from the bible and the people in the bible. Not what I see and watch everyday..... i already know that.

This spring - I'm going to find another church.




Major Lambda
 
And Catholics believe God guides the Church councils. How do you know God didn't set up a visible authority outside of scripture to settle disputes about scripture? Such an authority is needed because scripture leads people to opposite beliefs and scripture verses make opposite claims.

The bible is what GOD and its authors want us to know. I believe that there are things that was not published in the bible ..... that is still for US to learn.

The bible has a lot of Wisdom and guidance ; it contains a lot of facts and education, and i also believe it is absent of info........things that we are not supposed to know.



Major Lambda
 
So if the Bible is your final Authority, why doesn't the Bible say it is the final Authority? Why doesn't the Bible it's self give you any proof that it is the inspired word of God?

The bible is not the final authority ; GOD is the final authority. Either you have faith and belief in the bible or you do not. Either you are saved and will enter the kingdom of heaven.... or you are.unsaved and will perish.

" No man comes unto the father, but by me ". These words are documented in the bible. Revelation also tells a story of the end...... and whom will pay and suffer ; and whom will be spared the locusts and the four horseman.

God is the final and ultimate authority for all of mankind.




Major Lambda
 
The Catholic Church decided the Canon of scripture and put together the first Christian Bible at the councils of Rome, Carthage, and hippo. If you don't trust Church Authority, what makes you think you have the correct Canon of scripture? Is there any scripture verses that declare all of those books to be inspired by God?

How do you know there wasn't scriptures that never made it into that volume?

If you accept that your Bible is the inspired word of God, and has the correct collection of books, you are indeed saying that you trust Church Authority outside of scripture.

So if the Bible is your final Authority, why doesn't the Bible say it is the final Authority? Why doesn't the Bible it's self give you any proof that it is the inspired word of God?

Hmmm... and yet, the early apostles traveled around baptizing people in the name of Jesus Christ - without any new scriptures whatsoever. How do you suppose that happened?

Perhaps true Christianity is an experience, not a decision you make after reading a book?
 
The Catholic Church decided the Canon of scripture and put together the first Christian Bible at the councils of Rome, Carthage, and hippo. If you don't trust Church Authority, what makes you think you have the correct Canon of scripture? Is there any scripture verses that declare all of those books to be inspired by God?

How do you know there wasn't scriptures that never made it into that volume?

If you accept that your Bible is the inspired word of God, and has the correct collection of books, you are indeed saying that you trust Church Authority outside of scripture.

So if the Bible is your final Authority, why doesn't the Bible say it is the final Authority? Why doesn't the Bible it's self give you any proof that it is the inspired word of God?

Is there some particular guidance that you think is missing? That should be covered? That you feel you need the authenticity of the Bible to justify?
 
The Catholic Church decided the Canon of scripture and put together the first Christian Bible at the councils of Rome, Carthage, and hippo.
If you don't trust Church Authority, what makes you think you have the correct Canon of scripture? Is there any scripture verses that declare all of those books to be inspired by God?

How do you know there wasn't scriptures that never made it into that volume?

If you accept that your Bible is the inspired word of God, and has the correct collection of books, you are indeed saying that you trust Church Authority outside of scripture.

So if the Bible is your final Authority, why doesn't the Bible say it is the final Authority? Why doesn't the Bible it's self give you any proof that it is the inspired word of God?


The Church is revealed in Acts.

The religious entity such as you call the "Church" does not look and speak like the Acts revealed Church.

Thus Bible believers for many centuries have discounted the grandiose 'truth claims' of the entity you contend is The Church.

ps: and as Major Lambda pointed out, God is the final authority.

And all who believe the Bible must believe that NO MATTER WHAT MEN WERE USED BY GOD .... Jesus had the last word as to what became "scripture"

For all we know the list of 'canon' may well have started out as a list of forbidden books !
 
And Catholics believe God guides the Church councils. How do you know God didn't set up a visible authority outside of scripture to settle disputes about scripture? Such an authority is needed because scripture leads people to opposite beliefs and scripture verses make opposite claims.

Christianity isn't a system of belief that is based on hierarchy.

"Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." - Acts 17:11

Textual authority > Human authority. Always has been.
 
Back
Top Bottom