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God Exists [W:114]

Look, man, I'm not about to instruct you in logic. .................~
Good.

And very wise, in view of the problems you seem to be having with it.

For which reason any address of what you then let follow by instruction on logic thus being superfluous (since you're not about to instruct me in logic).

Also assuming that your quoting of your own post on agnosticism / atheism being less down to lack of logic, but more due to you not having cleared your quote cache in time.
 
Let me see if I can break it down simple enough for you to comprehend...the majority of the world's pop. is not Christian...got that?
I already challenged you to point where I ever made such a claim.

In that case, if you are in the majority...which is not Christian...you should start reflecting on what you believe...got that? If not, I can't break it down any simpler...:roll:
I also pointed out the fallacy of your argument with
IF Christians actually made up 50.01 pct of the world population, it would be time for them to start doubting.

That appears to be the argument you're making.
Not about who IS in majority (something you still have to show my having made any claim over), but about "what if they were".

Since you're most likely going to respond to that challenge in the way you respond to any of them (mine or those made by others), IOW NOT, I think we can end this now, seeing how you appear incapable of grasping the illogic of your own argument.
 
I already challenged you to point where I ever made such a claim.

I also pointed out the fallacy of your argument with Not about who IS in majority (something you still have to show my having made any claim over), but about "what if they were".

Since you're most likely going to respond to that challenge in the way you respond to any of them (mine or those made by others), IOW NOT, I think we can end this now, seeing how you appear incapable of grasping the illogic of your own argument.

Yeah, that would be your MO...argue with yourself since you can't seem to grasp anything...
 
In any case, to hopefully conclude the excursion into logic and get somewhat back on the topic of God existing, claiming that he does not and basing that claim on the fact that many share into it, is just as much a fallacy of logic (appeal to popularity) as would be claiming that Islam is the only true religion (Christianity thus consequently not) and basing that claim on the large number of Muslims sharing into the opinion.

Works in all other directions as well, of course.
 
In any case, to hopefully conclude the excursion into logic and get somewhat back on the topic of God existing, claiming that he does not and basing that claim on the fact that many share into it, is just as much a fallacy of logic (appeal to popularity) as would be claiming that Islam is the only true religion (Christianity thus consequently not) and basing that claim on the large number of Muslims sharing into the opinion.

Works in all other directions as well, of course.

Dude,:beatdeadhorse
 
Well, there are far more than 50 million Christians who think Atheists are foolish. Thanks for confirming that they are right.

that seems foolish on your part
 
To have a member of the Atheist Cult tell me that the logic is horrible is proof that the argument is correct. Thanks for acknowledging that.

you dont seem very good at logic their
 
Howard, you and your fellow cult members need to learn how to read. Secondly, not only did I not say one religion, I further said this: "Certainly numbers do not guarantee correctness" The comment was about the Atheist Cult's insignificance in the world. Why don't you go back to your Atheist Cult Forum and play there. Why try to ruin all of DP?

If I post within the rules I have the same rights as anyone else to post wherever I like. Who was it that started talking about 'atheist cults'? Seems to me like you are hitting the self destruct button all on your own and should be checking out the plank in your own eyes.
 
Oh good, you're leaving.

Yes, I am leaving this thread. I mistakenly thought it was in the Philosophical Forum. I see that it is not. I apologize, this is not the forum for a debate on these matters.

Good day to you. Feel free to join me in the Philosophical Forum any time you like.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Lots of infractions and thread bans on both sides if this issue. You all need to follow the rules of this sub-forum. If you believe that you cannot, do not post in this sub-forum.
 
The # 1 for me is as clear as can be. There is no other explanation that could bring about such a vast variety of complexities with our world. The only explanation is that there is a designer. Having a designer is not magic.

As for what I would say to someone of another religion, I have been asked a similar question on DP and my answer is that I would not argue with that person. I would tell that person that I was glad that he had such an experience and leave it at that.

The only one good method I know of is to learn. According to the website below, 32.5% of the world is Christian, followed by Islam with 21.5%. The third largest group is non-believers at 16%. Fifty-four percent believe in God or Allah, while only 16% are non-believers. It seems to me that the first question for a non-believer would be why am I in such a minority and why does this minority hold a 100% belief that they know better than over half the world. Certainly numbers do not guarantee correctness, but it should give people a reason to pause and find out why they belong to such a minority. I would suggest a non-believer find people who are believers and ask them why they are believers. From the sum of their comments, you might learn why 84% of the world believes in some kind of religion.

The answer is a designer. That designer could be completely natural phenomena. The same way that a majestic river is carved by hundreds or thousands of years of running water and natural shifts. Nothing points to an all knowing all perfect designer. For starters, a dumbass like me could make improvements upon this "design". Not very impressive if that's true. And I bet that you and I could sit sown and come up with a more moral and humane list of ten commandments in an hour than what you find in the bible. Again, some designer.

If you have no argument as to why the other person is wrong then I think, respectfully, you've conceded that part of the argument. If your argument can be used in the exact same way to prove any God that I make up, or even an obviously man made religion like Scientology, then the logic of it surely doesn't hold up. Can we agree on that?

As for the statistics, I don't find that very persuasive and you even concede in your argument that numbers don't matter when determining who's right. You argue that non-beleivers "hold a 100% belief that they know more than half the world." But that's not true. Most atheists and nonbelievers simply don't believe. They aren't saying that they know there is no God. I would never say that I know you're wrong about God. I'm just saying that I haven't seen any evidence to support your claim. It's that simple. And as of right now I'm standing here with the only evidence of "I don't understand how everything is designed there for god". That's not evidence. That's an admission that you'd rather say " I belief this with no evidence" rather than "I don't know."

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
 
An agnostic doesn't know; an atheist knows.
The atheist in agnostic's clothing can be identified by his howl.
 
"Oh damn" said God "I didn't think of that." and poof! He disappeared in a puff of logic.
-Iforgetwho-

Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams said:
The story so far. In the beginning the universe was created. This made a lot of people very unhappy and has widely been regarded as a bad move.

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that You exist, and so therefore, by Your own arguments, You don't. QED"

"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
 
Moderator's Warning:
Lots of infractions and thread bans on both sides if this issue. You all need to follow the rules of this sub-forum. If you believe that you cannot, do not post in this sub-forum.

I will confine myself to the Basement for religious discussions. It has been proven that certain members of DP will do all possible to shut down threads dealing with Christianity. I see no reason for DP to continue having a religious forum. See all of you in the basement.
 
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An homage
 
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I'll start off by saying that I am a Christian and I do believe in the Triune God mentioned in the Bible (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) and that he is the only true God, maker of us and our universe, and is our Saviour.

I'm not going to claim that I can "prove" God's existence, because I can't. It's a faith based belief, and I believe that God wants us to have faith in him rather than only believing in him if we were to physically sense him, and the "Doubting Thomas" story from the book of John comes to mind... "24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. 26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

While God's existence can't be definitely proved until he returns to the Earth once again (if one needs to see/touch/hear him and etc.), I still have my reasons for believing that his existence is more probable than not, and they are in line with William Lane Craig's reasoning. The origin of the universe, the fine tuning of the universe, objective moral values, the story of Jesus Christ (life, death, resurrection), and my own personal experiences all make more sense to me when the Christian God is used to explain them.

I guess that would be my very brief view on God's existence.
 
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I'll start off by saying that I am a Christian and I do believe in the Triune God mentioned in the Bible (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) and that he is the only true God, maker of us and our universe, and is our Saviour.

I'm not going to claim that I can "prove" God's existence, because I can't. It's a faith based belief, and I believe that God wants us to have faith in him rather than only believing in him if we were to physically sense him, and the "Doubting Thomas" story from the book of John comes to mind... "24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. 26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

While God's existence can't be definitely proved until he returns to the Earth once again (if one needs to see/touch/hear him and etc.), I still have my reasons for believing that his existence is more probable than not, and they are in line with William Lane Craig's reasoning. The origin of the universe, the fine tuning of the universe, objective moral values, the story of Jesus Christ (life, death, resurrection), and my own personal experiences all make more sense to me when the Christian God is used to explain them.

I guess that would be my very brief view on God's existence.

I will have to disagree with some of the justification. William Lane Craigs justifications are horrible. They are poor reasoning, bad logic and even worse theology.
 
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