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A Question about Christ [W 77, 186]

re: A Question about Christ [W 77]

AlbqOwl said:
Not suggesting in any way that you are a child or in any way childish, I explain it to children this way:

A woman loved watching the wild birds living happily during times of plenty. But when the winter turned cold and snowy, she saw them shivering in the branches and knew they were probably hungry too, so she put a pan of seed and other goodies out on the deck for them. But the birds were afraid to approach the unfamiliar pan and continued to seek food from the places that were barren and useless to them. And she thought to herself that if she could just become one of them for a little while, she could show them that the offered food was good and nourishing and they had nothing to fear from it.

I think God waited until humankind had evolved and was ready, and then he became one of us, in the person of Jesus for a little while, to show us that what he offered was good and nourishing and we had nothing to fear from it.
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Actually, I pray that my faith in God is like that of a child. Your point here is an interesting one. Not sure yet what I think of it and I will let others expound upon it.
 
re: A Question about Christ [W 77]

AlbqOwl said:
Not suggesting in any way that you are a child or in any way childish, I explain it to children this way:

A woman loved watching the wild birds living happily during times of plenty. But when the winter turned cold and snowy, she saw them shivering in the branches and knew they were probably hungry too, so she put a pan of seed and other goodies out on the deck for them. But the birds were afraid to approach the unfamiliar pan and continued to seek food from the places that were barren and useless to them. And she thought to herself that if she could just become one of them for a little while, she could show them that the offered food was good and nourishing and they had nothing to fear from it.

I think God waited until humankind had evolved and was ready, and then he became one of us, in the person of Jesus for a little while, to show us that what he offered was good and nourishing and we had nothing to fear from it.
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I actually like your take on it. It won't make the fundamentalists happy, but few things do.
 
re: A Question about Christ [W 77]

<alt>doxygen said:
The answer in #13 is a quote from the Bible, so I think my assertion that the answer you were looking for was from the Bible stands, does it not?
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I thought it best to go to the source of why He came. I would think no one would be more qualified to tell us why he came than from His own words.
 
re: A Question about Christ [W 77]

Elvira said:
True, he was speaking before Pilate...much more was involved besides the truth at that time...Jesus came to the earth to testify about the truth regarding God and His Son...the truth given to the nation of Israel, but the truth that would effect all of mankind...

"So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of divine favor and truth" John 1:14

"Because the Law was given through Moses, the undeserved kindness and the truth came to be through Jesus Christ." John 1:17

"Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6
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Love it!!
 
re: A Question about Christ [W 77]

LesGovt said:
I thought it best to go to the source of why He came. I would think no one would be more qualified to tell us why he came than from His own words.
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Whether or not the quotes attributed to Jesus in the bible are provable to be his own words, accurately remembered and written, has been debated in more than a few very lengthy threads. This may become one of them.;):peace
 
re: A Question about Christ [W 77]

nota bene said:
Daniel comes immediately to mind....
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On the other hand, the book of Daniel was written in 164 BCE, to inspire the Jews that were under the yoke of Antioch iv. There is a lot of symbolism in the prophecies, were allow it to be interpreted many different ways.

DANIEL, BOOK OF - JewishEncyclopedia.com
 
re: A Question about Christ [W 77]

<alt>doxygen said:
Whether or not the quotes attributed to Jesus in the bible are provable to be his own words, accurately remembered and written, has been debated in more than a few very lengthy threads. This may become one of them.;):peace
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I doubt it since this is the religious forum...thank goodness...
 
re: A Question about Christ [W 77]

<alt>doxygen said:
I actually like your take on it. It won't make the fundamentalists happy, but few things do.
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Thanks. I often say that we make things so much harder than they have to be.

I think it best to start from the C.S. Lewis definition of Christ and Christianity. You first take away all the myth, dogma, doctrine, and theology and leave only what has to be in the story in order for there to be a story. And build from there.

In the preface to his wonderful little book Mere Christianity he writes:
. . .“The reader should be warned that I offer no help to anyone who is hesitating between two Christian “denominations.” You will not learn from me whether you ought to become an Anglican, a Methodist, a Presbyterian, or a Roman Catholic. . . Ever since I became a Christian I have thought that the best, perhaps! the only, service I could do for my unbelieving neighbours was to explain and defend the belief that has been common to nearly all Christians at all times. . .”​

And later in the same book he wrote:
. . .“I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: “I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept His claim to be God.” That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic-on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg-or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to. . .”​

Because Lewis was a former Atheist who came to have a relationship with the living God who walked among us by the name of Jesus, he was inspired to present Jesus as who he was without all the trappings tacked on by different ways in which Scripture is interpreted or the extra trappings tacked on by various denominational groups.
 
re: A Question about Christ [W 77]

Grand Mal said:
Yeah, but the fate of unbaptised babies isn't the point. The point is, they're guilty of the original sin, according to doctrine. It's peculiar to Christianity. Jews and Muslims believe Adam was forgiven by God, but Christians believe Christ redeemed us of that taint but only if we believe he did. Without the original sin and the redemption from it, Christ is just another in a line of teachers. It's the basis of Christianity, it's what makes Christianity more than just another sect of Judaism. And it's why I can't be a Christian. I don't buy the whole 'original sin' guilt thing.
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My point is that the babies are just fine and that you can trust your Father.
 
re: A Question about Christ [W 77]

LesGovt said:
An interesting question:

Why did Jesus come into the world?
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Through exactly the same biological process as every other mammal.
 
re: A Question about Christ [W 77]

Sweden said:
Through exactly the same biological process as every other mammal.
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That is not true...
 
re: A Question about Christ [W 77]

nota bene said:
My point is that the babies are just fine and that you can trust your Father.
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Okay.
What about the 'original sin' aspect. Do you believe we were all born guilty of Adam and Eve's sin?
If yes, does that condemn everyone born before Christ's mission, or everyone who hasn't heard of Him? They haven't had a chance of redemption.
If no, does that make Christ ordinary?
 
re: A Question about Christ [W 77]

Sweden said:
Through exactly the same biological process as every other mammal.
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That answers the "how," not the "why."
 
re: A Question about Christ [W 77]

nota bene said:
That answers the "how," not the "why."
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And not even the how if you think about it...Mary was simply an incubator...her imperfect genes were not passed on to Jesus...
 
re: A Question about Christ [W 77]

Grand Mal said:
That's not the case, is it. You (you're a Christian, right?) you want your God to hold everyone guilty of the sin committed by one man and one woman, the ones He created. Everyone born since is guilty of that sin.
Your God fashioned a faulty creation, and blames everyone who has ever lived for it's faults. That concept of 'original sin' is why I couldn't be a Christian. I don't accept that we're born needing redemption for what happened in the Garden.
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For anyone who has issues with original sin, a more relevant question is "are you entirely without sin?"

Every honest person's answer is "No."
 
re: A Question about Christ [W 77]

nota bene said:
That answers the "how," not the "why."
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Very good point. I dodged the 'why' question because it has no answer. Might as well ask why will the birds in my garden lay eggs next spring? Well, that's what birds do. Just like Homo Sapiens they reproduce. That is why we - including Jesus - live or lived.
 
re: A Question about Christ [W 77]

Elvira said:
And not even the how if you think about it...Mary was simply an incubator...her imperfect genes were not passed on to Jesus...
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In your opinion. One which runs contrary to everything we know about human reproduction. I wonder what you imagine Jesus' DNA looked like?
 
re: A Question about Christ [W 77]

Sweden said:
Very good point. I dodged the 'why' question because it has no answer. Might as well ask why will the birds in my garden lay eggs next spring? Well, that's what birds do. Just like Homo Sapiens they reproduce. That is why we - including Jesus - live or lived.
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Oh but there is an answer...you must have missed it...
 
re: A Question about Christ [W 77]

Goshin said:
For anyone who has issues with original sin, a more relevant question is "are you entirely without sin?"

Every honest person's answer is "No."
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I am an honest person and my answer is Yes. 'Sin' is a concept of a religion which I entirely reject. Have I always behaved ethically? Ask me that question and you will get your desired "no" response.
 
re: A Question about Christ [W 77]

Elvira said:
Oh but there is an answer...you must have missed it...
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No - it was impossible to miss in my Catholic schools. It was an answer which I think unsatisfactory. You know, contrary to reason.
 
re: A Question about Christ [W 77]

LesGovt said:
An interesting question:

Why did Jesus come into the world?
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To fulfill God's plan of saving the lost.


Luke 19
10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”


His goal was to save.....which He fulfilled.
 
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re: A Question about Christ [W 77]

Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
Question 1

What is truth?
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Pilate asked the same question - yet, there was Truth standing before him.

Jesus.
 
re: A Question about Christ [W 77]

Elvira said:
God works from His own timetable, not yours...
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You don't speak for God.

And that's easy to say when you're living in the lap of luxury. Tell that to the people who suffer and die in the dirt every day. :shrug:

Jesus didn't fulfill his mission. The world is not a better place because he died on the cross.

Logicman said:
Jesus will complete his mission when he returns as the Lion of Judah, his angels casting the evil into the Lake of Fire.
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Sorry to break it to you, but that's not going to happen. The idea that one person can save the world is an old world view. It's likely going to be collectives of people who get us out of the mess we're in.
 
re: A Question about Christ [W 77]

Logicman said:
I'm not 'saddled' with the consequences. I have Christ and his salvation. You're the one who is saddled with consequences because you have KICKED GOD'S SOLUTION AND SALVATION UNDER THE BUS.



Each man has his own guilt. ALL have sinned and fallen short of God's laws. But people don't have to fry in eternity for that. It would be dumb to deny one's FREE 'get out of jail card'.
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Frankly, the "frying for eternity" part is the dealbreaker for me.

The ultimate deadbeat dad torturing his children forever for not obeying the list of rules he left on the kitchen table on his way out.

Crappy way to run a universe.
 
re: A Question about Christ [W 77]

Northern Light said:
You don't speak for God.

And that's easy to say when you're living in the lap of luxury. Tell that to the people who suffer and die in the dirt every day. :shrug:

Jesus didn't fulfill his mission. The world is not a better place because he died on the cross.



Sorry to break it to you, but that's not going to happen. The idea that one person can save the world is an old world view. It's likely going to be collectives of people who get us out of the mess we're in.
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So you are judging me even though you don't know me or the hardships I have endured...ok...carry on...
 
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