Origins of man: Which path?

APB212 said:

I neither read nor respond to those and clearly I should have ignored this one as well. If you can't contain your thoughts within a single paragraph, they're not worth sharing.

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You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but expecting somebody posting to read the OP isn't unreasonable. Specific parameters were established.

maquiscat said:

Maybe it is a wording issue. Are you sticking with the concept that A&E were created out of mud/Adam per the premise? If so then why did you not pick either the evolution response nor the created other humans not mentioned?

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No wording issue. I never said they were made from mud. I say A&E had their DNA manipulated by someone capable of manipulating genes. They were then allowed to breed with the rest of the population passing on the intended genes to create man as we know today. It is not unlikely that someone or some race is traveling our galaxy seeding higher levels of life. They could take favorable traits they found in our species and may be using them to cross breed other worlds. For that matter they may be cross breeding and gene manipulating on a level that we have yet to even imagine.

maquiscat said:

I am going to start this in the religious section since it I simply dealing specifically with religious beliefs, however, Mods, if there is a section that is better suited, please feel free to move it there.

Now for the purposes of this particular discussion we are assuming a spontaneously created Adam with Eve having been made from his rib, per the Bible account. Anyone who cannot provide arguments within that context will be given nasty emojis and call a spoilsport and a party pooper.


After we assume our premise, we are left with the quandary of where the rest of us come from. Many people will say we are all descended of Adam and Eve, but few ever think of what that implied.


The first and immediate implication is that we are all distant products of incest. If Adam and Eve were the only people created, then their children would have been forced to have other children with their siblings, and maybe even with their parents. In this case, I use forced as in no other choice not as in against their will.


Our second option is that Adam and Eve were the prototypes and God then later spontaneously created other humans for their children to go out and have children with. The mentioning of other people first occurs when Cain is cursed for killing his brother, and he is worried that others will exact revenge beyond God's punishment, hence the mark from God to prevent that. Yet, after that passage, it is then revealed that Adam and Eve had Seth, noting specifically that they had himafter the loss of Able, and then had many more sons and daughters after Seth. So then where did the others whom Cain was afraid of come from. Eventually Cain found a village and married some one from it, but due to the lack of described time passing, and their multi centuries of life back then, there could have been a population build from any of the methods listed here.


Our final option also stems from the accounting that there were people for Cain to be afraid of and later marry. And that is simply that they evolved and form the main stock of humanity.


So which do you believe is the origin of man after Adam and Eve were created or if you don't believe in the spontaneously created Adam and Eve, which do you feel is the more likely under the assumptions of the thread? If you reject all three, and still remain under the assumptions, what is your theory?

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Adam and Eve had no belly buttons.
"Adam" and "Eve" are names of classes or sets.

PIPEWRENCH said:

No wording issue. I never said they were made from mud. I say A&E had their DNA manipulated by someone capable of manipulating genes. They were then allowed to breed with the rest of the population passing on the intended genes to create man as we know today. It is not unlikely that someone or some race is traveling our galaxy seeding higher levels of life. They could take favorable traits they found in our species and may be using them to cross breed other worlds. For that matter they may be cross breeding and gene manipulating on a level that we have yet to even imagine.

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Then you are indeed outside of the premise, for I specifically said in the OP that we are working under the premise that A&E were spontaneously created, which would exclude DNA manipulation. Don't get me wrong, I do find your assertion as a good probability overall for the origins of man on earth. It just falls outside of the scope of this specific thread.

Angel said:

Adam and Eve had no belly buttons.
"Adam" and "Eve" are names of classes or sets.

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Did you even read the OP?

maquiscat said:

Did you even read the OP?

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Read and quoted it.
Do you remember this part?

what is your theory?

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I was theorizing, as invited.

maquiscat said:

Then you are indeed outside of the premise, for I specifically said in the OP that we are working under the premise that A&E were spontaneously created, which would exclude DNA manipulation. Don't get me wrong, I do find your assertion as a good probability overall for the origins of man on earth. It just falls outside of the scope of this specific thread.

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Gene manipulation is creation. That would come under other as you provided as a choice.

Adam and Eve had DNA and passed it down to every living human. The fact that we have DNA in common with all life on this planet clearly indicates man as we know him today was not a new species introduced or created out of mud separate and different from all other life. This also indicates that if man was created he was created from a species that evolved from a single ancestor along with all other life on this planet. If we were created it would have been gene manipulation to achieve what we are today. If it happened by chance then the creation was the initial creation of all life on this planet. If we believe we were created rather than random evolution then someone altered our DNA to create man as we know him today.

The bible clearly explains that God created all life on this planet. That explains all life on this planet having DNA in common. The bible then claims that man was created in Gods image. The fact that we have so much DNA in common with apes and monkeys clearly indicates that rather than create a new form of life God simply altered our DNA to make us more like God.

HowardBThiname said:

As the story goes -- Cain traveled to the land of Nod where he met his wife, so, it appears other people were living in that day apart from the Adam/Eve tribe.

Not being a believer, I take the whole thing with a BIG grain of salt, but the interesting concept that we derive from that is that the people living in the Land of Nod were not subject to the "fall" so all those descendants would not be charged with Original Sin and all the shenanigans that followed.

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The story of the Bible is really about the lineage from Adam to Jesus. It is about the salvation of Man. It's really NOT about how the Earth was made or any other human lineage; which would fill volumes.

American said:

The story of the Bible is really about the lineage from Adam to Jesus. It is about the salvation of Man. It's really NOT about how the Earth was made or any other human lineage; which would fill volumes.

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If it's only about "the lineage from Adam to Jesus", then you are saying that I, and my whole family, friends, and neighbors, have to pay the price of an eternity in hellfire because some woman I have never met and is not even a relation, ate an apple she wasn't supposed to? And the only way I can save myself is by saying her great-great-grandkid is God?

Come on, man. I know you guys are really trying. But no matter how hard you try, it just doesn't make any sense.

Angel said:

Read and quoted it.
Do you remember this part?

I was theorizing, as invited.

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i have no idea what your answer is then. "...classes or sets." What does that even mean and how does that fit in with the premise of a spontaneously created Adam and Eve?

PIPEWRENCH said:

Gene manipulation is creation. That would come under other as you provided as a choice.

Adam and Eve had DNA and passed it down to every living human. The fact that we have DNA in common with all life on this planet clearly indicates man as we know him today was not a new species introduced or created out of mud separate and different from all other life. This also indicates that if man was created he was created from a species that evolved from a single ancestor along with all other life on this planet. If we were created it would have been gene manipulation to achieve what we are today. If it happened by chance then the creation was the initial creation of all life on this planet. If we believe we were created rather than random evolution then someone altered our DNA to create man as we know him today.

The bible clearly explains that God created all life on this planet. That explains all life on this planet having DNA in common. The bible then claims that man was created in Gods image. The fact that we have so much DNA in common with apes and monkeys clearly indicates that rather than create a new form of life God simply altered our DNA to make us more like God.

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You are still missing the premise. Gene manipulation, while a creative process, is not spontaneous. It didn't happen suddenly. You cannot claim gene manipulation for Adam and Eve, when the premise is spontaneously created. That means they came out of nothing living. Like I said I am not dismissing your theory as a most likely event in reality. But the questions stems from the idea that A&E were sculptured out of mud and given life, or fingers snapped and boom there they are. Now Gene manipulation as an explanation of where the other humans came would be within the premise.

ataraxia said:

If it's only about "the lineage from Adam to Jesus", then you are saying that I, and my whole family, friends, and neighbors, have to pay the price of an eternity in hellfire because some woman I have never met and is not even a relation, ate an apple she wasn't supposed to? And the only way I can save myself is by saying her great-great-grandkid is God?

Come on, man. I know you guys are really trying. But no matter how hard you try, it just doesn't make any sense.

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Jesus saved everyone, haven't you read the Bible?

maquiscat said:

i have no idea what your answer is then. "...classes or sets." What does that even mean and how does that fit in with the premise of a spontaneously created Adam and Eve?

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The creation of "Adam" and "Eve" was, on my theory, the creation of a whole class or set of beings of two different sexes, which the Creation story designates synecdohically as Adam and Eve. This would account for all of the conundrums posed in the OP.

Angel said:

The creation of "Adam" and "Eve" was, on my theory, the creation of a whole class or set of beings of two different sexes, which the Creation story designates synecdohically as Adam and Eve. This would account for all of the conundrums posed in the OP.

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I think you are kind of on the edge of the premise, maybe. Are you in essence expressing the second option with a bit of a twist?

maquiscat said:

I think you are kind of on the edge of the premise, maybe. Are you in essence expressing the second option with a bit of a twist?

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Fair enough. Although my theory doesn't need the "afterward" -- the plurality comes about in the initial creation. The Creation story is the synecdoche.

Angel said:

Fair enough. Although my theory doesn't need the "afterward" -- the plurality comes about in the initial creation. The Creation story is the synecdoche.

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In that case I am going to place you out of premise but with allowance for my presentation. The intent is to go with the more literal interpretation of A&E being first. But I can see where what I wrote didn't fully exclude your conclusion. No nasty emojis for you.

The way I resolved the conflict between the biblical account of Adam and Eve, as the first humans, and the science theory called evolution, is Adam and Eve represents a transition state of humans from pre-human to modern human. This transition was not led by biology, but by psychology. Adam and Eve were created by the spirit; God; mind.

If you infer the time scale of Genesis, from bible genealogy, this date coordinates quite closely with the scientific date attributed to the invention of written language. John 1:1 In the beginning was the word and the word was God. God was the first written word using the new invention. It is sort of like first book published by the invention of the printing press was the bible. The impact of both inventions, changed humanity, beginning with few people.

Consider going to school where there is no written language, but only spoken language. The teacher talks to you in front of the class, but there are no chalk boards, books and no notebooks to take notes. What would happen is you would need to depend on memory recall, so you could study.

The problem is each person in the lecture hall may remember certain parts and/or each may remember it differently. If you had a study group, you may not be able to agree what you just heard, since these is nothing carved in stone, provided by the teacher, to prove to everyone what is correct. The result is anyone who can appear convincing; con artists, or has the might; might is right, will be the final say. The result is chaos, in terms of long term learning, such that the brain will forget and old natural instincts and habits will return.

Once you have written language and learned things can be caved into stone, now there is a way to verify. This provides a way for the individual to study and reinforce their mind, even though it wants to forget and return to paradise. The new invention also allowed group reinforcement, of new things, in a much shorter time, causing memory to be populated, in spite of instinct eraser. This change in the human mind appears with an original few, as symbolized by Adam and Eve. Memory apart from instinct is the foundation for willpower and choice apart from instinct.

In the story of Cain and Abel, Cain kills Abel and is sent away by God. Cain complains to God that whomever shall come upon him, shall kill him. God gives him a talisman symbol to protect him. If Adam and Eve were the first two humans and Cain one of their son's, who where these whomever, who were already there? They were the pre-humans, who were still in paradise, since they had yet to acquire the new invention and spoil natural instinct. The story of Genesis was the first published science work concerned with early thinking on cosmology and evolution. It is not modern but it was the first.

The problem was that atheism, in an attempt to recruit members to their club, tried to undermine the bible using a false premise. Most people fell into the trap, since the logic appeared fine, but no-one questioned the false premise. The bible account was not about magic, but about how an invention could change a species, via the mind, leading to problems with natural human instincts; transgressions and the need for logical and natural law to fix the problems created by written fiction.

Dear Readers,

God tells us we live in a Multiverse composed of at least 2 or more Universes or Worlds. The first (Adam’ world) was totally destroyed in the Flood - dissolved and it’s gone forever . ll Peter 3:6 The present Universe will be burned and will also be dissolved. ll Peter 3:10 The third Heaven or World is forever. Rev. 22:5 No ancient man traditional view could have possilby known this and wrote it 3k years ago.

Here are other Truths in Genesis:

God tells us that Adam was made the 3rd Day after the Earth was made but BEFORE the plants grew. Gen. 2:4-7 The Earth was made the 3rd Day. Gen. 1:9-10 The plants GREW on the 3rd Day. Gen. 1:12

This shows that the first Human, Adam, was formed of the dust of the ground LONG BEFORE ANY other living creature, before the plants, herbs, trees, Sun, Moon, Stars of our Cosmos, and "EVERY other living creature that moves" which came forth from the water on Day 5.


God also tells us HOW and WHEN the prehistoric people on our Earth inherited the Human intelligence which is unique to Adam and his descendants. God calls prehistoric people whose origin was in the water on Day 5, is called the sons of God.*Gen 1:21

The sons of God married and produced the Humans on the first Earth, which was totally destroyed in the Flood. Genesis 4 tells us that Cain married and produced Enoch, his son, with a woman who could ONLY have brought forth from the water, as God told us in Gen 1:21.*Today's Science confirms that EVERY livng creature MUST have water to live since EVERY cell in our body would die without it.

No ancient man could have possibly known this. Read it for yourself:

Gen. 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days;*and also after that,*when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men (Heb-Adam), and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

The giants were giants intellectually as is shown at the end of the verse. They were the Humans of the first Earth, and they had agriculture, smelting, city building, and technology with little of NO evolution. Adam farmed with NO evolution, and Cain built a city with NO evolution, showing that Human intelligence is Superior to ANY creature made from the water.

The fulfillment of the prophecy of*"and also after that"*was fulfilled when Noah brought the human intelligence of Adam to Northern Mesopotamia in the mountains of Ararat. This happened some 10k years ago and the FIRST human cities and the FIRST agriculture, and the ONLY Human civilization on our Earth, PROVES it.*

SUDDENLY,*the sons of God, (prehistoric man) evolved the Human intelligence of Adam and changed from animal to Human intelligence.*Prehistoric man settled down, built houses, cities, and developed math and writing, proving that anything is possible IF you have the intelligence of the first Human, Adam. Below is the empirical record of the arrival of the first Humans on this Earth:

Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE

Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE....*Map of The Fertile Cresent (9000-4500 BCE)

In less than 1% of the time since the sons of God diverged from Chimps, on this Planet, they went from Caves to the Moon and back, and yet Evolutionists seem to be totally ignorant of this Fact. Humans also inherited the ERVs of the common ancestor of Chimps BUT Humans did NOT evolve from the common ancestor, but from our own common ancestor whose name is Adam.

Human could NOT have evolved from the common ancestor of Chimps because Human (Adam) were made BILLIONS of years BEFORE our Solar system was complete some 6 Billion years ago. Adam was made as Christians will be in Heaven. We will live in incorruptible bodies for Eternity. This is evident when we look at the Day man was first formed of the dust.

It was the 3rd Day, the SAME Day as the Big Bang of our Universe. Gen. 2:4 Adam was alive on the first Earth BEFORE the first Stars put forth their Light in our Cosmos. Genesis 2:4-7

The reason I know that Genesis is True is because it explains HOW and WHEN prehistoric man because Human. Evolutionism is wrong because it has NO mechanism for producing Human intelligence in Apes. This is because we MUST inherit whatever we have through sexual relations of our parents. Evolution enters the world of Magic when it tries to convince us that we magically evolved our intelligence from mindless Nature, apart from the way we inherit everything.