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Satan

Yes, Satan is real. I've met him. He's a very nice fellow, actually...though you have to be careful. His job is to convince you to believe in a certain myth of your self. Certain Sufis, notably Mansur al' Halaj and Al' Quzzat Hammadani have done a good job preserving the truth about Satan.
 
Satan was invented as a scapegoat so that humans could blame their own evil on an invisible entity. The devil made me do it.

If the Bible's story of Lucifer's rebellion were true, I'd worship him instead though.
 
Glowpun said:
Is Satan a real entity?
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Yes. By the cultural belief of the ancient Jews, Satan had a dispute with archangel Michael over the corpse of Moses.

This belief is authenticated by the NT Scripture. The following verse from Jude confirms the story.

Jude 1:9 (NIV2011)
But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”
 
Aristaeus said:
No you didn't. Being in the bible is not evidence of something's existence. That's like me claiming the Muppets' Christmas Carol is evidence of talking frogs.
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What evidence do you actually need then?

What evidence do you have for what you yourself just did yesterday? Or are you turned to an invisible unicorn yesterday?
 
Angels having free will is a more interesting topic.
 
Aristaeus said:
No you didn't. Being in the bible is not evidence of something's existence. That's like me claiming the Muppets' Christmas Carol is evidence of talking frogs.
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No. The Muppets are puppets. Their show is evidence that they are fake... not real.

The Bible is evidence of historical fact. People ... places and events described in it are fact... not all are proven yet. That makes the Bible as evidence valid.
 
Bodhisattva said:
No. The Muppets are puppets. Their show is evidence that they are fake... not real.

The Bible is evidence of historical fact. People ... places and events described in it are fact... not all are proven yet. That makes the Bible as evidence valid.
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The sun stopped in the sky?
 
Thorgasm said:
The sun stopped in the sky?
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I direct you to the bold section.

Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
No. The Muppets are puppets. Their show is evidence that they are fake... not real.

The Bible is evidence of historical fact. People ... places and events described in it are fact... not all are proven yet. That makes the Bible as evidence valid.
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Bodhisattva said:
No. The Muppets are puppets. Their show is evidence that they are fake... not real.

The Bible is evidence of historical fact. People ... places and events described in it are fact... not all are proven yet. That makes the Bible as evidence valid.
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If I write a book about the Flying Spaghetti Monster describing allegedly historical people and events, you will consider it evidence?
 
Deuce said:
If I write a book about the Flying Spaghetti Monster describing allegedly historical people and events, you will consider it evidence?
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You are saying the Bible's account that Egypt, etc. Are real places and that Peter etc are real people is just made up?
 
Moderator's Warning:
This is the religious discussion forum. Arguing the non-existence of God is specifically banned in this subforum. References to religion being delusion, comparisons to invisible unicorns or flying pasta will typically result in 3 points and a threadban. The thread is being reviewed for further moderator action on posts before this warning; the thread will be monitored afterward for compliance with the RDF rules set.
 
Bodhisattva said:
No. The Muppets are puppets. Their show is evidence that they are fake... not real.

The Bible is evidence of historical fact. People ... places and events described in it are fact... not all are proven yet. That makes the Bible as evidence valid.
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The bible has a talking snake and 600 year old men. Do you think that's evidence that snakes can talk and people can live 600 years?

Anyhoo, as I've just been made aware that debating the existence of God in the religious discussion forum is banned (!?), I'll say my goodbyes.

edit: I will add that the existence of God is something many Christians think about and debate with themselves, so it seems an odd thing to ban from a religious forum!
 
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Aristaeus said:
The bible has a talking snake and 600 year old men. Do you think that's evidence that snakes can talk and people can live 600 years?

Anyhoo, as I've just been made aware that debating the existence of God in the religious discussion forum is banned (!?), I'll say my goodbyes.

edit: I will add that the existence of God is something many Christians think about and debate with themselves, so it seems an odd thing to ban from a religious forum!
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Humans can be very good ventriloquists...you don't think a spirit creature can maneuver the same trick? After all, Satan is the master of tricksters...

As for humans living 600 years...actually the oldest man recorded lived to be 969 years old...the Bible tells us that God made humans to live forever and that Adam’s sin brought imperfection and death to the human family....Genesis 2:17; 3:17-19; Romans 5:12...those who lived before the Flood were much closer to perfection than we are today, and this was no doubt a major factor in their longevity...Methuselah, for instance, was only seven generations removed from Adam...Luke 3:37, 38
 
Aristaeus said:
The bible has a talking snake and 600 year old men. Do you think that's evidence that snakes can talk and people can live 600 years?
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I interpret the snake as a metaphor.

I interpret the 600 years of life as years of direct influence on those around them or the world in general, ~550 of those years after physical death. Like Animism or life according to Zen, for me life = influence. I believe a person's life, or influence, continues beyond the direct influence quantified as 600 years in your example.

The more good a person does, the longer their post-physical life. Combined with other good influences, it essentially exists forever. Good influence doesn't die, it triumphs.

The truly evil person's influence is askewed, their influence burned in a fire of disregard until it's gone forever. Evil influence dies, it loses.
 
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FastPace said:
Everyone will find out when they die. Yes, Satan is real.
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If everyone will find out when they die, how can you know that?
 
RAMOSS said:
If everyone will find out when they die, how can you know that?
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I'm just saying if one has doubts--or disbelieves totally--they will find out Satan exists when they die. Whether you go to heaven or hell you will know. That's what I'm saying.

You can know like I do, in this life, having experienced the presence of the supernatural diabolical. Or you can know in this life by the mental processes of sufficient faith that causes true belief. You might reply that such belief does not make something real in reality. True. But your mind can still function, believe, it is true. In that sense--even if produced in false sense--you "know."
 
FastPace said:
I'm just saying if one has doubts--or disbelieves totally--they will find out Satan exists when they die. Whether you go to heaven or hell you will know. That's what I'm saying.

You can know like I do, in this life, having experienced the presence of the supernatural diabolical. Or you can know in this life by the mental processes of sufficient faith that causes true belief. You might reply that such belief does not make something real in reality. True. But your mind can still function, believe, it is true. In that sense--even if produced in false sense--you "know."
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That is merely a belief. How do you know you are interpreting your experience correctly? How do I know you aren't just experiencing something like sleep paralsysis, and those experiences are merely a misinterpretation of self generated emotion?
 
RAMOSS said:
That is merely a belief. How do you know you are interpreting your experience correctly? How do I know you aren't just experiencing something like sleep paralsysis, and those experiences are merely a misinterpretation of self generated emotion?
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You can't know something without belief. I would say knowing is contingent on belief. But then I think there is a whole field of philosophy which inquires into how humans can "know." I've never taken a philosophy course in that. But it seems to me you can't know homosexual human exist if you disbelieve they exist or are uncertain they exist. So, you have to believe first.

As for how do I know I experienced--and interpreted correctly--what I did well... at base I know it as well and true as when I got my head cracked open in violence.

You know... I have sometimes questioned myself about that, if it was real or just my mind manufacturing it. But then at some point I'm always drawn back to a deeper, invisible point in me that knows it was true and real.

But really the issue of the existence of Satan is less about me and more about the heart of the matter of the question is Satan real. And I'm saying... the objectivity of the answer will come when we die (assuming there is not nothingness due to ceasing to exist).




Is Sammy the Bull behind that door with a gun? You will only objectively know the answer once you walk through that door. And that's the way it will go with Satan and the door of death.

 
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