• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

The 10 Commandments of the Catholic Church

T

tosca1

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Messages
35,135
Reaction score
5,606
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I've only discovered that the 10 Commandments listed by the Catholic Church is not the same as the Commandments given in the New Testament.


Catholic Ten Commandments:

I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve.
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not kill.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.

http://www.beginningcatholic.com/catholic-ten-commandments



Compare with this:

The Ten Commandments in the New Testament

The 10 Commandments in the New Testament


The second Commandment that's listed in the New Testament - and the Old Testament - is not found in the Catholic version.

Why?
 
Last edited:
tosca1 said:
I've only discovered that the 10 Commandments listed by the Catholic Church is not the same as the Commandments given in the New Testament.


Catholic Ten Commandments:

I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve.
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not kill.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.




Compare with this:

The Ten Commandments in the New Testament

The 10 Commandments in the New Testament


The second Commandment that's listed in the New Testament - and the Old Testament - is not found in the Catholic version.

Why?
Click to expand...

Interesting. They also break up the 10th Commandment into two separate commandments so there are 10.
 
tosca1 said:
I've only discovered that the 10 Commandments listed by the Catholic Church is not the same as the Commandments given in the New Testament.


Catholic Ten Commandments:

I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve.
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not kill.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.

http://www.beginningcatholic.com/catholic-ten-commandments



Compare with this:

The Ten Commandments in the New Testament

The 10 Commandments in the New Testament


The second Commandment that's listed in the New Testament - and the Old Testament - is not found in the Catholic version.

Why?
Click to expand...

These things are usually down to errors in copying, translation or interpretation. We don't have the original, after all.
 
joG said:
These things are usually down to errors in copying, translation or interpretation. We don't have the original, after all.
Click to expand...

This is what's missing from the Catholic version:


Exodus 20
4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.

5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
 
So which version of the Commandments does God want us to use? And put on monuments in schools and court houses?
 
The New Testament does not have a list of consecutive Commandments (unlike in the Old testament), but Jesus had stated that the Commandments hinge on only two: Love of God with all your heart, mind and soul (which is the first and greatest Commandment), and love of neighbor.


The 4th and 5th Commandment in the Old Testament is a stipulated way of showing that love to God.
God described how He feels about them:

for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God,


Throughout the Scriptures - God had used the analogy of His relationship with His people to a marriage and adultery. It is emphasized in so many ways.
 
tosca1 said:
This is what's missing from the Catholic version:


Exodus 20
4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.

5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Click to expand...

There are so many renditions that I don't really go with those that think the precise wording could be even guessed at.
 
joG said:
There are so many renditions that I don't really go with those that think the precise wording could be even guessed at.
Click to expand...

Context.
 
joG said:
That is the meta context.
Click to expand...

Yes, deleting that Commandment would be meta context, which is relativism - twisting a context to suit.


The context of God' message, however can't be so easily dismissed and massaged.

The command of Loving God, which goes hand-in-hand with obedience, is not only spelled out as a direct command, but also illustrated in numerous passages in the Bible. In fact, the Old Testament is filled with it - the very reason why Jews were punished on numerous occasions - their disobedience by worshipping other gods!
 
tosca1 said:
Yes, deleting that Commandment would be meta context, which is relativism - twisting a context to suit.


The context of God' message, however can't be so easily dismissed and massaged.

The command of Loving God, which goes hand-in-hand with obedience, is not only spelled out as a direct command, but also illustrated in numerous passages in the Bible. In fact, the Old Testament is filled with it - the very reason why Jews were punished on numerous occasions - their disobedience by worshipping other gods!
Click to expand...

Not quite. Comparing the wording as a guide to the will of the writer is best done by looking at the oldest known copy. Later ones are much less reliable dating back to a time, when texts were copied the old fashioned way.
 
joG said:
Not quite. Comparing the wording as a guide to the will of the writer is best done by looking at the oldest known copy. Later ones are much less reliable dating back to a time, when texts were copied the old fashioned way.
Click to expand...

The will of the writer?

The message is still the same. They should.....otherwise, it's no longer Biblical.

Love (and Obedience) to God. Love and obedience go hand-in-hand.
You can't say you love God and yet defy, or disobey Him.

He described the pain He feels when people worship other gods. How many times did He punish the Jews in His wrath? Is there any mistaking that? :lol:
Can that be taken into any other context, when not only did He describe His feelings verbally, but also showed His wrath?



Even if the intention is not to worship other gods.....why would anyone take the risk of offending someone they claim to love?

It's like saying "I love my husband/wife," whom you know tends to be jealous.....and yet you go bringing gifts and giving so much attention to, and singing praises of another woman/man (and worse, hardly any to your own spouse). What kind of love is that?

What husband I wonder would welcome and be pleased with a wife who lovingly looks at the picture of another man, singing his praises, giving him gifts, calling him all the time, and showing so much attention to him?
 
Last edited:
nota bene said:
https://steubenvilleconferences.com/10-commandments

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/did-the-catholic-church-change-the-ten-commandments

The chart here compares Protestant, Jewish, and Catholic: Chart: Comparing the Ten Commandments - Beliefnet
Click to expand...

In that last site, the Jewish 10 Commandments is almost identical with the Protestant's.
Steubenville site asks about the numbering of the Commandments. It's not about the numbering -
it's about what's missing!

Commandment #2 in both Jewish and Protestant - that's a very important stipulation. It gives in details what we're not supposed to do, and God had also explained why.

#2 Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any manner of likeness, of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
Thou shalt not bow down unto them, nor serve them; for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God,
visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me; And showing mercy unto the thousandth


Why is that part not in the Catholic version?
 
Last edited:
The reasons given by Catholic.com, are not sound.


Despite appearances, we know Exodus 20 is not a prohibition against making “any likeness of anything” in a strict sense because we clearly see God either commanding or praising the making of images and statues in multiple biblical texts (see Exodus 25:18; Numbers 21:8-9; I Kings 6:23-28, 9:3). Just five chapters after this so-called prohibition against statues, for example, God commands Moses to make statues representing two angels to be placed over the mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant:

And you shall make two cherubim of gold… The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another…. And you shall put the mercy seat on the top of the ark… There I will meet with you (Ex. 25:18-22).
Click to expand...
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/did-the-catholic-church-change-the-ten-commandments


First of all, those carved cherubims were supposed to adorn the ark.
God was giving instructions how to adorn His ark - therefore, those graven images don't apply to the stipulation that we are not to make graven images.
That's how God had designed the Ark!

The images that's referred to in the stipulation pertains to idols (images) that we would bow to. I don't think Jews bowed down before those cherubims!




2. By lifting out part of the first commandment appearing to prohibit the making of “any likeness of anything,” not only do you have God contradicting himself in later commanding the making of statues, but you also end up making the first two commandments repetitive. They are both essentially condemning idolatry.
Click to expand...
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/did-the-catholic-church-change-the-ten-commandments

There is no contradiction, as explained above.

What is missing is the most important part of that Commandment!

And, it is not repetitive, since bowing down and serving, are descriptions of what constitutes idolatry!
God is being concise with His stipulation!


Anyway, why would anyone say God is being repetitive - and thus, edit His words?
It's like proof-reading before something gets approved and published!


This must be the reason why that part is missing, I suppose:


4. We believe the Catholic Church alone has the authority to give to God’s people an authoritative list of the Ten Commandments. And the Catechism of the Catholic Church does exactly that. At least, it gives us a list as a sure norm for us.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
That's the problem when something as important as the #2 Commandment - which gives a concise description as to what constitutes idolatry - is deleted from the Commandments of God.


#2 Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any manner of likeness, of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;

Thou shalt not bow down unto them, nor serve them; for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God,
visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me; And showing mercy unto the thousandth




.......we end up taking things out of context.......

.......thus Catholic.com thinks there would be contradiction with making graven images of cherubims for the adornment of the ark (which was designed and instructed by God!!)

The only way that would give contradiction to making graven images is if you bow or prostrate yourself, and/or serve, and/or pray to those cherubims!


Because that important part of the Commandment was removed, people wouldn't know what constitutes idolatry, in the eyes God!

What idolatry is, isn't up for debate among church leaders! It's clearly been described by God Himself!

No bowing! No serving!
 
Last edited:
tosca1 said:
This is what's missing from the Catholic version:


Exodus 20
4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.

5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Click to expand...

Yeah, those two are biggies, yet it's understandable why they chose to leave them out...4 & 5 is why I won't even wear a cross or have any renditions of a picture of Jesus in my my house...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom