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Should priests be allowed to marry?

phattonez said:
If that was the cause then the decline would have started in the 11th century, not the 1960s.
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Society changes.... and the decline did happen a lot earlier than the 1960's. Luthor had a lot to do with that.. but it was happening before then.
 
RAMOSS said:
Society changes.... and the decline did happen a lot earlier than the 1960's. Luthor had a lot to do with that.. but it was happening before then.
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Do you have any statistics to prove that?

priestshort1.jpg
 
Josie said:
I remember a high school teacher of mine several years ago who said that he believes the Catholic church will allow priests to be married in his lifetime. What do you all think? Should they? Why or why not?
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I did Catholic school from K-12. A good number of the priests turned out to be pedophiles and were prosecuted. Never any problems with the Deacons though, they were married and were more into the religion and all that, they weren't big on little boys.

Oh, BTW, the Bishop who hit and killed a man when he was drunk, and fled the scene, the same guy who shuffled around 50 pedophile priests around the diocese, instead of having them arrested, the same bishop that closed my high school, because the legal bills were going up....that same very bishop is now facing a court hearing about raping a kid 35 years ago. And trust me, if you know about this POS, it is most likely to be true.
 
Josie said:
I remember a high school teacher of mine several years ago who said that he believes the Catholic church will allow priests to be married in his lifetime. What do you all think? Should they? Why or why not?
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From a strictly Biblical standpoint, sola scriptura, absolutely yes they should be allowed to marry if they wish.


Pragmatically speaking it has more positives than negatives by far, also.


I'm not Catholic, though, so I say this as an interested observer of the Protestant persuasion. Just to note, every Protestant denomination I know of allows priests/ministers to marry and has for centuries... nor do there seem to be any great negatives associated with the practice.


Of course the RCC will decide this for itself in its own way and our opinions are of little consequence.... as is the case in most of what we discuss and debate here.
 
phattonez said:
What many who make this point fail to realize are that:
1) Once you are a priest you cannot get married, in any rite. Married men can become priests, but priests cannot marry.
2) Celibacy is demanded of all priests in Catholicism, even the married ones.
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True. But celibacy does not mean no sex...it means no sex outside the bounds of marriage. People always confuse celibacy with chastity.
 
FastPace said:
That is up to the Bishops to decide. It's an imposed discipline they force on themselves--the priesthood (Holy Orders).

From a practical standpoint, it's my view the Catholic Church should allow "secular priests" (diocesan priests) to marry, but allow the religious order priests to maintain their vows of celibacy.
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"Secular priest" is an oxymoron.
 
Josie said:
I remember a high school teacher of mine several years ago who said that he believes the Catholic church will allow priests to be married in his lifetime. What do you all think? Should they? Why or why not?
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As an atheist it's not my call. Nor is it the call of a Baptist or Muslim. Do I think it will end priest abuse? (If that's the issue), no I don't.

Interesting question. Why is the focus always on Priests, totally ignoring the fact there is a female component also?
 
Josie said:
I remember a high school teacher of mine several years ago who said that he believes the Catholic church will allow priests to be married in his lifetime. What do you all think? Should they? Why or why not?
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Priests are allowed to marry, they just can't be priests anymore if they do.

If you're asking, should Catholicism change their entire doctrine of celibacy for priests and nuns. Then in my opinion, no, they shouldn't.
 
phattonez said:
What many who make this point fail to realize are that:
1) Once you are a priest you cannot get married, in any rite. Married men can become priests, but priests cannot marry.
2) Celibacy is demanded of all priests in Catholicism, even the married ones.
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Re #2, are you sure about this? From Wiki:

Exceptions to the rule of priestly celibacy[edit]

Exceptions to the rule of celibacy for priests of the Latin Church are sometimes granted by authority of the Pope, when married Protestant clergy become Catholic. Thus married Anglicans have been ordained to the Catholic priesthood in personal ordinariates and through the United States Pastoral Provision. Because the rule of celibacy is an ecclesiastical law and not a doctrine, it can, in principle, be changed at any time by the Pope. Nonetheless, both Pope Benedict XVI and his predecessors have spoken clearly of their understanding that the traditional practice was not likely to change.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerical_celibacy_(Catholic_Church)

I know two formerly Episcopalian priests now ordained RC priests, and although I never asked either, I don't think they're celibate.
 
nota bene said:
Re #2, are you sure about this? From Wiki:

Exceptions to the rule of priestly celibacy[edit]

Exceptions to the rule of celibacy for priests of the Latin Church are sometimes granted by authority of the Pope, when married Protestant clergy become Catholic. Thus married Anglicans have been ordained to the Catholic priesthood in personal ordinariates and through the United States Pastoral Provision. Because the rule of celibacy is an ecclesiastical law and not a doctrine, it can, in principle, be changed at any time by the Pope. Nonetheless, both Pope Benedict XVI and his predecessors have spoken clearly of their understanding that the traditional practice was not likely to change.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerical_celibacy_(Catholic_Church)

I know two formerly Episcopalian priests now ordained RC priests, and although I never asked either, I don't think they're celibate.
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Celibate

1.a person who abstains from sexual relations.

2. a person who remains unmarried, especially for religious reasons.

adjective

3. observing or pertaining to sexual abstention or a religious vow not to marry.
4. not married

The Catholic Church uses the word "celibate" in the sense of unmarried, and "chaste" for the no sex. Since Catholic teachings forbid sex outside of marriage, unmarried implies no sex.
 
pinqy said:
True. But celibacy does not mean no sex...it means no sex outside the bounds of marriage. People always confuse celibacy with chastity.
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You have that reversed. We are all called to chastity. The religious take a vow of celibacy.
 
nota bene said:
Re #2, are you sure about this? From Wiki:

Exceptions to the rule of priestly celibacy[edit]

Exceptions to the rule of celibacy for priests of the Latin Church are sometimes granted by authority of the Pope, when married Protestant clergy become Catholic. Thus married Anglicans have been ordained to the Catholic priesthood in personal ordinariates and through the United States Pastoral Provision. Because the rule of celibacy is an ecclesiastical law and not a doctrine, it can, in principle, be changed at any time by the Pope. Nonetheless, both Pope Benedict XVI and his predecessors have spoken clearly of their understanding that the traditional practice was not likely to change.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerical_celibacy_(Catholic_Church)

I know two formerly Episcopalian priests now ordained RC priests, and although I never asked either, I don't think they're celibate.
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See the thoughts of canon lawyer Ed Peters.

https://canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2014/05/01/five-points-regarding-a-married-roman-priesthood/
 
phattonez said:
See the thoughts of canon lawyer Ed Peters.

https://canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2014/05/01/five-points-regarding-a-married-roman-priesthood/
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All he says is that "the question of clerical continence must be authoritatively resolved; that resolution, moreover, whatever it might be, must be defensible on Christological, sacramental, canonical, and historical grounds."

This doesn't speak to my opinion that married RC priests are probably not celibate or expected to be.
 
nota bene said:
All he says is that "the question of clerical continence must be authoritatively resolved; that resolution, moreover, whatever it might be, must be defensible on Christological, sacramental, canonical, and historical grounds."

This doesn't speak to my opinion that married RC priests are probably not celibate or expected to be.
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See point number 5.

Ed Peters said:
Canon 277 requires all clergy in the West, including married clergy, to observe perfect and perpetual continence.
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And let's be more precise with the language (I'm guilty of this too). Celibacy refers to the state of being married. Most priests are celibate. There are some married priests. Are priests must practice continence, which is not having sex.
 
phattonez said:
And what does this have to do with the requirement for continence? Nothing. I've always said that this is a possibility, but continence will always be required.
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Simple.. married men are not expected to reframe from sexual activity. .. and the person you quoted specifically said he reevaluated his position based on that incident. He also said that the issue is not settled, even though HE personally argued for continence. If he said the issue is not settled, then he does not consider that it is universally considered to be dogma.
 
RAMOSS said:
Simple.. married men are not expected to reframe from sexual activity. .. and the person you quoted specifically said he reevaluated his position based on that incident. He also said that the issue is not settled, even though HE personally argued for continence. If he said the issue is not settled, then he does not consider that it is universally considered to be dogma.
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Quote where he said that his views have changed. You won't find it. It's still canon law. All priests must practice continence.
 
phattonez said:
Quote where he said that his views have changed. You won't find it. It's still canon law. All priests must practice continence.
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I am not saying it isn't . I am pointing out that while he didn't change his mind, since it is disputed, it's not dogma. There is a difference between practice and dogma.
 
phattonez said:
See point number 5.



And let's be more precise with the language (I'm guilty of this too). Celibacy refers to the state of being married. Most priests are celibate. There are some married priests. Are priests must practice continence, which is not having sex.
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Yes, I understand the distinction; I'm simply using the common and incorrect term. I'm guessing you meant "All" in your last sentence, and again, I don't think that married priests are expected to practice continence.
 
nota bene said:
Re #2, are you sure about this? From Wiki:

Exceptions to the rule of priestly celibacy[edit]

Exceptions to the rule of celibacy for priests of the Latin Church are sometimes granted by authority of the Pope, when married Protestant clergy become Catholic. Thus married Anglicans have been ordained to the Catholic priesthood in personal ordinariates and through the United States Pastoral Provision. Because the rule of celibacy is an ecclesiastical law and not a doctrine, it can, in principle, be changed at any time by the Pope. Nonetheless, both Pope Benedict XVI and his predecessors have spoken clearly of their understanding that the traditional practice was not likely to change.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerical_celibacy_(Catholic_Church)

I know two formerly Episcopalian priests now ordained RC priests, and although I never asked either, I don't think they're celibate.
Click to expand...
There are offshoots who call themselves "Catholic", and there are also autonomous churches who consider themselves "Catholic", but are not really a part of the official Roman Catholic Church. As it stands right now, today, you cannot be an ordained Catholic priest, under the auspices of The Vatican, without taking an oath of celibacy. There are rumors that the lib pope Francis may want to change that.
 
countryboy said:
There are offshoots who call themselves "Catholic", and there are also autonomous churches who consider themselves "Catholic", but are not really a part of the official Roman Catholic Church. As it stands right now, today, you cannot be an ordained Catholic priest, under the auspices of The Vatican, without taking an oath of celibacy. There are rumors that the lib pope Francis may want to change that.
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I don't think this is correct. From Wiki:

The Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of Saint Peter is a personal ordinariate of the Roman Catholic Church, "a structure, similar to a diocese, that was created by the Vatican in 2012 for former Anglican communities and clergy seeking to become Catholic. Once Catholic, the communities retain many aspects of their Anglican heritage, liturgy, and traditions". The ordinariate uses a missal called Divine Worship, a variation of the Roman Rite commonly referred to as the "Anglican Use" or the "Ordinariate Use", which incorporates aspects of the Anglican liturgical tradition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Ordinariate_of_the_Chair_of_Saint_Peter
 
nota bene said:
I don't think this is correct. From Wiki:

The Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of Saint Peter is a personal ordinariate of the Roman Catholic Church, "a structure, similar to a diocese, that was created by the Vatican in 2012 for former Anglican communities and clergy seeking to become Catholic. Once Catholic, the communities retain many aspects of their Anglican heritage, liturgy, and traditions". The ordinariate uses a missal called Divine Worship, a variation of the Roman Rite commonly referred to as the "Anglican Use" or the "Ordinariate Use", which incorporates aspects of the Anglican liturgical tradition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Ordinariate_of_the_Chair_of_Saint_Peter
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From the actual Ordinariate website:
What is the process for an Anglican priest to become a Catholic priest?
Anglican clergy seeking to be ordained as Catholic priests must first complete an extensive process that includes background checks; approval by the head of the Ordinariate and by the Vatican; completion of an approved Ordinariate formation program; and an examination. Celibacy is the norm for the clergy. Permission has been given on a case-by-case basis by the Pope for former Anglican priests who are married to be ordained Catholic priests for the Ordinariate. If widowed, they may not remarry.
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https://ordinariate.net/q-a
 
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