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Do you believe in demons? [W: 312]

RAMOSS said:
If you notice, he had to get permission from God. In the mainstream Jewish tradition, Angels (including Satan) have no free will.
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Oh yes I got that part. But he was given limitations and bore false witness against Job trying to inflict more pain and suffering on him. Did you get that part?
 
vesper said:
Oh yes I got that part. But he was given limitations and bore false witness against Job trying to inflict more pain and suffering on him. Did you get that part?
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Not at all. He inflicted terrible suffering on Job, but did not bore false witness. I personally see the entire book of Job as an allegory to try to answer the question 'why do bad things happen to good people'.. and I think it fails at that.
 
RAMOSS said:
Not at all. He inflicted terrible suffering on Job, but did not bore false witness. I personally see the entire book of Job as an allegory to try to answer the question 'why do bad things happen to good people'.. and I think it fails at that.
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Whatever you tend to see almost everything as a allegory. Have a good evening Ramoss.
 
vesper said:
Whatever you tend to see almost everything as a allegory. Have a good evening Ramoss.
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Yes. I do. I don't see any evidence that things are other than allegories.
 
RAMOSS said:
Yes. I do. I don't see any evidence that things are other than allegories.
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G-d's Word is a diamond with many facets. An allegory is just one facet.

So I am going to put you on my prayer and concern list. I am going to ask G-d to gently reveal to you other facets.

Peace to you.
 
vesper said:
G-d's Word is a diamond with many facets. An allegory is just one facet.

So I am going to put you on my prayer and concern list. I am going to ask G-d to gently reveal to you other facets.

Peace to you.
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Did you know in the Jewish scriptures, there were only two books that have the term 'Ha-Satan' in it? One is the book of Job, and the other is Zechariah?

You worry about your relationship with God, and I will be content with mine.
 
RAMOSS said:
Did you know in the Jewish scriptures, there were only two books that have the term 'Ha-Satan' in it? One is the book of Job, and the other is Zechariah?

You worry about your relationship with God, and I will be content with mine.
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Yes I am aware 'Ha-Satan' is explicitly mentioned in Job and Zechariah with the overwhelming majority of times in Job. The Hebrew word satan [f'f] means "an adversary, one who resists." It is translated as "Satan" eighteen times in the Old Testament, fourteen of those occurrences being in Job 1-2. But it also shows up in writings to define persons in the Hebrew scriptures as a type of Satan when they are out of fellowship with G-d.

Like I stated earlier there are many facets of G-d's Word. When you choose just one then you shut off a whole lot of openings of understanding. And for the record a prayer and concern list has nothing to do with worry.
 
vesper said:
Sorry, I believe evil is real. Very real.
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Weird that you lead with "sorry".

Weirder that you think I said there is no such thing as "evil". I was responding to a thread asking whether demons exist.'

And even if you personally believe in magical creatures like demons, it's still no response to what I said.



vesper said:
From time to time surfing the web I come across some really troubling stories of heinous acts that human beings have engaged in against other human beings. Often they bring me to tears. And today was one such day where a man was convicted of sexually abusing an infant.

The number of heinous acts committed by some seem to be growing and often they are against our most vulnerable. You can call it mental illness if you like but the level of such heinous acts leads me to believe some people are possessed.

What say you?
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See, when someone responds to "what say you", it's absurd to answer to what they say with "sorry, I believe something else".

You weren't asking us to guess at what you believe.
 
Mr Person said:
Weird that you lead with "sorry".

Weirder that you think I said there is no such thing as "evil". I was responding to a thread asking whether demons exist.'

And even if you personally believe in magical creatures like demons, it's still no response to what I said.






See, when someone responds to "what say you", it's absurd to answer to what they say with "sorry, I believe something else".

You weren't asking us to guess at what you believe.
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Fair enough. Point taken.
 
An idea I’m interested in is the relationship of secret societies to demonic forces. On some level, the human being has the potential of being the worst demon. There are those anatomically homo sapiens who are serial killers that murder children, mutilate bodies, cannibalize their victims, and then there are those ruthless dictators who commit mass atrocities like genocide and attack people with chemical and biological weapons. Has the world seen any demon greater than this? This is where I kind of agree with Judaism’s perspective that Satan is on a very tight leash and why I reject extreme dualism. Demons don’t have power to compel any human being. They symbolize the animalistic characteristics we all possess. But as a distinct entity, they require human beings under their influence to act as their agents. How do they acquire that influence in the first place? Of course through temptations of power, wealth, sex. Demons probably know the human condition better than we ourselves do, and take advantage of that knowledge. But they do not control external events, they can only improvise their temptations given the circumstances. At least this is what I’m inclined to believe. I don’t say that demons can take on human form as a disguise, but that the human being himself becomes a demon when the influence of an external demonic force on him becomes so strong because that human being let the demon in in the first place, and gradually became so infatuated with gratifying his lower animalistic urges that he completely lost the human potential to rise above and be an agent of good and beauty.

Coming back to secret societies, I believe that they dominate the contemporary political power in this world, and the corrosive institutions which are making humanity sink into the animalistic. Here I am talking about the secretive influences which control governments, media, Hollywood, super powerful corporations, Wall Street, etc. And these secret societies are highly hierarchical and at the top of that hierarchy are enigmatic figures shrouded in secrecy and that is where I suspect the external demonic entities are positioned.
 
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