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Do you believe in demons? [W: 312]

Nope. God is depicted with wings in the 91st Psalm too, so in your mind he must be a giant bird.

Get a new dog, Ramoss.

This demonstrates you don't understand a lot about non-Christian religions, that is for sure.
 
From time to time surfing the web I come across some really troubling stories of heinous acts that human beings have engaged in against other human beings.

We really dont need to go to the supernatural bucket to get crazy evil.

People would like to be able to blame other people, things, spirits, for the injuries (physically, mentally, financially) they inflict on others but they just need to look in a mirror and take some personal responsibility.

On the other hand when harvey hit the gulf coast recently an army of rednecks in flatboats saved tens of thousands of lives so there is evidence of outstanding good as well.
 
This demonstrates you don't understand a lot about non-Christian religions, that is for sure.

It demonstrates why I'll take the Jews commentary on the OT more seriously 100 times out of 100 over fundamentalist protestants.
 
We really dont need to go to the supernatural bucket to get crazy evil.

People would like to be able to blame other people, things, spirits, for the injuries (physically, mentally, financially) they inflict on others but they just need to look in a mirror and take some personal responsibility.

On the other hand when harvey hit the gulf coast recently an army of rednecks in flatboats saved tens of thousands of lives so there is evidence of outstanding good as well.

I don't believe anyone is making the claim that all evil men do "the devil and his legion of demons made him do it". Yet so many that have responded to this thread as if somehow someone made such a claim.

It boils down to do you believe in a Satan and his legion of demons or not. If you do then you know how important it is to guard you mind and your heart. If you don't then that is the end of the discussion. If you believe you can be filled with the Holy Spirit then most likely you believe you can also entertain a home for evil spirits but not both at the same time.

Almost every day I read someone doing the unthinkable heinous act. Some label it mental illness. Is it really? You decide.

As far as those rednecks in flatboats, they are the Cajun Navy. Visit their Facebook sometime, they don't hide their faith nor their light under a bushel basket. When Harvey was happening and all the flooding occurring, they posted to their followers that they had enough funds at the moment and to redirect their giving to organizations that are mounting up to go in and assist in the cleanup. They posted a number of organizations ready to respond. And the Red Cross wasn't among them. Did you know the Red Cross big wigs were staying in a posh hotel in Dallas on the donations given by so many for Harvey? Red Cross has a poor turnover on what actually goes to assist the victims. I quit giving to them years ago because of that.


The Cajun Army is but one group out there helping those in need. There is no fanfare, nor media coverage of what these "faith based" groups achieve. But what you do here in the media iis anything negative that may come to light over a member of a faith based group.
 
This demonstrates you don't understand a lot about non-Christian religions, that is for sure.
RAMOSS speaking of the different sects of the Jewish faith, I recall a Sadducee did not believe in Angels or the resurrection but Pharisees did. Are you a Sadducee?
 
RAMOSS speaking of the different sects of the Jewish faith, I recall a Sadducee did not believe in Angels or the resurrection but Pharisees did. Are you a Sadducee?

There have not been Sadduccee since the temple was destroyed. They did not believe in the afterlife or any kind of resurrection, because it was not in the Torah. I will also say that the concept of angel is different between Judaism and Christianity.. Angels are mentioned in Genesis, so that concept would not be off the table for them.

When it comes to the idea of the afterlife and the resurrection, those concepts are not as firmly entrenched in dogma as it is in the Christian religion. There is much more variation in belief about it, but the importance of the belief is not stressed at all. You can have two people who go to the same temple, are equally religious, and one could belief in the afterlife, the other does not. .. and it won't matter at all. The emphasis of Judaism is not on the afterlife, but rather on living this life. There are even Jewish groups (many of the Chasidic Jews for example) that believe in reincarnation. While many are concerned about the afterlife, not an insignificant number are not. A common response would be 'I'll leave it in the hands of the Creator'

One of the issues is that we are to serve god not for reward, but for it's own sake. Some people say to worry about the afterlife and based your actions on the afterlife is doing good deeds for a reward in the afterlife. So, to worry about the afterlife and the resurrection is to take away from serving God for it's own sake.. (for some).

Because the dogma about the afterlife is so vaguely defined, there are many many variations of belief on it, but no one specific notion is promoted over another notion.
 
There have not been Sadduccee since the temple was destroyed. They did not believe in the afterlife or any kind of resurrection, because it was not in the Torah. I will also say that the concept of angel is different between Judaism and Christianity.. Angels are mentioned in Genesis, so that concept would not be off the table for them.

When it comes to the idea of the afterlife and the resurrection, those concepts are not as firmly entrenched in dogma as it is in the Christian religion. There is much more variation in belief about it, but the importance of the belief is not stressed at all. You can have two people who go to the same temple, are equally religious, and one could belief in the afterlife, the other does not. .. and it won't matter at all. The emphasis of Judaism is not on the afterlife, but rather on living this life. There are even Jewish groups (many of the Chasidic Jews for example) that believe in reincarnation. While many are concerned about the afterlife, not an insignificant number are not. A common response would be 'I'll leave it in the hands of the Creator'

One of the issues is that we are to serve god not for reward, but for it's own sake. Some people say to worry about the afterlife and based your actions on the afterlife is doing good deeds for a reward in the afterlife. So, to worry about the afterlife and the resurrection is to take away from serving God for it's own sake.. (for some).

Because the dogma about the afterlife is so vaguely defined, there are many many variations of belief on it, but no one specific notion is promoted over another notion.

But my question was related to what you personally believe. I know you can put three Jews in a room and three Christians as well and ask them the same question and each will give you four responses.

The Sadducee sect may not have survived after the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD but their beliefs did.

So let me ask you in a different way, do you hold to the beliefs of the Sadducee sect present during the time of the Temple? Yes or No?
 
But my question was related to what you personally believe. I know you can put three Jews in a room and three Christians as well and ask them the same question and each will give you four responses.

The Sadducee sect may not have survived after the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD but their beliefs did.

So let me ask you in a different way, do you hold to the beliefs of the Sadducee sect present during the time of the Temple? Yes or No?

That is true, many of their beliefs did survive. I look at demons as an allegory and angels as allegories.. and a teaching tool. I am more in line with the reconstructionist Jews than the Sadducee in that regard. Demons and Angels were a common place belief in Judaism until the early middle ages... and it is very common these days to look at them allegorical.

When it comes to the afterlife, I have the attitude.. "surprise me"
 
That is true, many of their beliefs did survive. I look at demons as an allegory and angels as allegories.. and a teaching tool. I am more in line with the reconstructionist Jews than the Sadducee in that regard. Demons and Angels were a common place belief in Judaism until the early middle ages... and it is very common these days to look at them allegorical.

When it comes to the afterlife, I have the attitude.. "surprise me"

And I see the ANGEL of the LORD to be Yeshua himself every time it is written in HIS Holy Word. And the three who came to Abraham in the heat of the day..Yeshua was there also.

I see in the order of Melchizedek to be Yeshua too. So we worship the same G-d but our interpretations are different. And I am hoping on THAT DAY you are pleasantly surprised.

Pease to you and yours.
 
I don't believe anyone is making the claim that all evil men do "the devil and his legion of demons made him do it". Yet so many that have responded to this thread as if somehow someone made such a claim.

It boils down to do you believe in a Satan and his legion of demons or not. If you do then you know how important it is to guard you mind and your heart. If you don't then that is the end of the discussion. If you believe you can be filled with the Holy Spirit then most likely you believe you can also entertain a home for evil spirits but not both at the same time.

Almost every day I read someone doing the unthinkable heinous act. Some label it mental illness. Is it really? You decide.

As far as those rednecks in flatboats, they are the Cajun Navy. Visit their Facebook sometime, they don't hide their faith nor their light under a bushel basket. When Harvey was happening and all the flooding occurring, they posted to their followers that they had enough funds at the moment and to redirect their giving to organizations that are mounting up to go in and assist in the cleanup. They posted a number of organizations ready to respond. And the Red Cross wasn't among them. Did you know the Red Cross big wigs were staying in a posh hotel in Dallas on the donations given by so many for Harvey? Red Cross has a poor turnover on what actually goes to assist the victims. I quit giving to them years ago because of that.


The Cajun Army is but one group out there helping those in need. There is no fanfare, nor media coverage of what these "faith based" groups achieve. But what you do here in the media iis anything negative that may come to light over a member of a faith based group.

The thousands of rednecks in flatboats were out even before the cajun navy arrived from south of Rockport to Loiusana but we were glad to get all the help we could. Tens of thousands of lives were saved.

Years ago I was lucky enough to be in the right spot at the right time once and was prepared enough to pull a boy facedown from the bay and push the water out of his lungs so he started breathing again and recovered. I dont believe a demon pushed him in or an angel saved him. God helps those that take responsibility and help themselves and take the time to learn the basics of CPR. There were many people standing around but only one lady stepped forward to help me save him. I had a crazy girfriend once and she claimed her bad decisions were based on demonic direction a few times. I think she just lacked a sense of personal responsibility and was eager to blame others for her actions. She had no interest beyond her own self interest. That proved true in later years as well.
 
. I think she just lacked a sense of personal responsibility and was eager to blame others for her actions. She had no interest beyond her own self interest. That proved true in later years as well.

Things happen for a reason, and sometimes that reason is that you are being stupid.
 
Re: Do you believe in demons?

the GOP is full of demons; they perform some really evil deeds .........

Did you know this is a non-political forum?
 
From time to time surfing the web I come across some really troubling stories of heinous acts that human beings have engaged in against other human beings. Often they bring me to tears. And today was one such day where a man was convicted of sexually abusing an infant.

The number of heinous acts committed by some seem to be growing and often they are against our most vulnerable. You can call it mental illness if you like but the level of such heinous acts leads me to believe some people are possessed.

What say you?

The human brain is the most incredibly sophisticated machine we've come across, biological or not. The more complex a system, the more potential sources of error.



You don't need "demons" to explain a human being doing what the vast majority of other humans consider evil.
 
The human brain is the most incredibly sophisticated machine we've come across, biological or not. The more complex a system, the more potential sources of error.



You don't need "demons" to explain a human being doing what the vast majority of other humans consider evil.

Sorry, I believe evil is real. Very real.
 
Sorry, I believe evil is real. Very real.

Who doesn't? I've never seen anyone deny that.

The question is: why must it come from supernatural beings? Aren't humans independently capable of evil?

Perhaps demons are not meant to be interpreted as beings but as ills of man and society.
 
Who doesn't? I've never seen anyone deny that.

The question is: why must it come from supernatural beings? Aren't humans independently capable of evil?

Perhaps demons are not meant to be interpreted as beings but as ills of man and society.

As a believer of Scripture, demons, legions of them exist. So you and I part ways there.

Today I read a piece where a Russian couple were engaging in cannibalism. The husband would go on social media and make a date with a gal then murder her. They then proceeded to butcher her. The wife went out into the community including a military complex where she depicted herself as a baker that could provide tasty meat pies and got orders. Of course the meat in the pies were from the victims her husband murdered.
 
Sorry, I believe evil is real. Very real.

Define what you mean when you say 'evil'. Different philosophies will define that differently.
 
As a believer of Scripture, demons, legions of them exist. So you and I part ways there.

I don't think it's a question of belief, it's a question of interpretation. I feel spiritual work should be interpreted spiritually and not literally or physically. In this way, I can believe in demons but interpret them as classic ills of man and society not actual beings.

Today I read a piece where a Russian couple were engaging in cannibalism. The husband would go on social media and make a date with a gal then murder her. They then proceeded to butcher her. The wife went out into the community including a military complex where she depicted herself as a baker that could provide tasty meat pies and got orders. Of course the meat in the pies were from the victims her husband murdered.

No one doubts the existence of evil as very real. The theological discussion at hand is the source and thus interpretation of the concept of demons.

I realize neither of us are about to change our minds. I just wanted to try to explain my take on the topic.
 
Define what you mean when you say 'evil'. Different philosophies will define that differently.

I guess for me it is Satanic. The unthinkable.
 
I guess for me it is Satanic. The unthinkable.

For others, it is 'the harm that mankind does to himself and others'.

In my opinion, mankind can not blame the harm he on the devil.. he has to take responsibility for his own actions.
 
For others, it is 'the harm that mankind does to himself and others'.

In my opinion, mankind can not blame the harm he on the devil.. he has to take responsibility for his own actions.

And my opinion before man there was a battle in Heaven between good and evil. The evil was kicked out of Heaven. They went from angels to demons when G-d cleaned house.

Any man who does not open his heart to G-d is susceptible to allowing demons into them. For not both can live in the same space.

If you don't believe in demons then you will not agree with me. But I think they exist and I guard my heart daily.
 
And my opinion before man there was a battle in Heaven between good and evil. The evil was kicked out of Heaven. They went from angels to demons when G-d cleaned house.

Any man who does not open his heart to G-d is susceptible to allowing demons into them. For not both can live in the same space.

If you don't believe in demons then you will not agree with me. But I think they exist and I guard my heart daily.

that is one of the differences between Judaism and Christianity. .. It goes along with the function of Ha-Satan. (the accusor). In Judaism, the function of Satan (who is not a fallen angel), but merely the angel whose job it is to provide bad choices to man. Without the opportunity to choose bad choices, the bad can not be rejected, and the good chosen to lift an ordinary life to a sanctified life. It isn't a 'battle between good and evil'. It is some people choose extraordinarily bad.
 
that is one of the differences between Judaism and Christianity. .. It goes along with the function of Ha-Satan. (the accusor). In Judaism, the function of Satan (who is not a fallen angel), but merely the angel whose job it is to provide bad choices to man. Without the opportunity to choose bad choices, the bad can not be rejected, and the good chosen to lift an ordinary life to a sanctified life. It isn't a 'battle between good and evil'. It is some people choose extraordinarily bad.

Yes it is a battle between good and evil for if not there would be no need for choices.
 
that is one of the differences between Judaism and Christianity. .. It goes along with the function of Ha-Satan. (the accusor). In Judaism, the function of Satan (who is not a fallen angel), but merely the angel whose job it is to provide bad choices to man. Without the opportunity to choose bad choices, the bad can not be rejected, and the good chosen to lift an ordinary life to a sanctified life. It isn't a 'battle between good and evil'. It is some people choose extraordinarily bad.

After thinking about your post I went back to the book of Job. Some say it is actually the oldest book penned.
How well is it for us, that neither men nor devils are to be our judges! but all our judgment comes from the Lord, who never errs. Satan accuses Job, representing him as wholly selfish, and minding nothing but his own ease and safety. G-d gives permission granting Satan to make trial, but with a limit. The consequences was Job, was slandered by Satan. Job and all that he endured Satan wanted to force him to endure more through his slander of Job. But Satan got a bruised heel, and was foiled. And Job G-d blessed him abundantly. The great deceiver even tried to deceive G-d.
 
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After thinking about your post I went back to the book of Job. Some say it is actually the oldest book penned.
How well is it for us, that neither men nor devils are to be our judges! but all our judgment comes from the Lord, who never errs. Satan accuses Job, representing him as wholly selfish, and minding nothing but his own ease and safety. G-d gives permission granting Satan to make trial, but with a limit. The consequences was Job, was slandered by Satan. Job and all that he endured Satan wanted to force him to endure more through his slander of Job. But Satan got a bruised heel, and was foiled. And Job G-d blessed him abundantly. The great deceiver even tried to deceive G-d.

If you notice, he had to get permission from God. In the mainstream Jewish tradition, Angels (including Satan) have no free will.
 
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