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Thread: Do you believe in demons? [W: 312]

  1. #321
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    Re: Do you believe in demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by it's just me View Post
    Atheists don't need me to demonize them, they are doing a perfectly adequate job on their own, and I think you're the one who is missing the point.
    That's an odd thing to assert, if they don't need it, given that's exctly what you're doing.

    The tired, dishonest trope that "ATHEISTS MURDERED MILLIONS!" is just that: tired and dishonest as it tries to attribute the political mass murder of the 20th/21st centuries as having been due to atheism.
    Well, he see this one particularly hot chick and not does she bag he slackjawed, but he lets a "Whoa" slip out

  2. #322
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    Re: Do you believe in demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by it's just me View Post
    Yeah, I know, when atheists murder people they always blame it on Christians. Was Pol Pot also a seminary student? No? How about Mao Zedong?
    I have no idea nor do I have any reason to think that they was atheists either.

    Would you care to post any statements and links by them that would indicate that they was atheists?

  3. #323
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    Re: Do you believe in demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by it's just me View Post
    Oh, that makes all the difference in the world! So, when you murder someone you have to say why you are murdering them or it doesn't count.
    You are claiming they was atheists so how about some indication you are right in that claim?

  4. #324
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    Re: Do you believe in demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillRM View Post
    You are claiming they was atheists so how about some indication you are right in that claim?
    Don't they teach history in your world?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lovebug View Post
    Trump makes nasty remarks. You guys rush in to call him on it. Then you stoop low and make the same nasty remarks and then have the audacity to complain when another calls you on the carpet for it.

  5. #325
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    Re: Do you believe in demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by it's just me View Post
    Don't they teach history in your world?
    Given me a link to your claims as that could not be simpler to do.

  6. #326
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    Re: Do you believe in demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillRM View Post
    You do know when Jews was being mistreated up to being slowly torture to death in Spain a Muslim ruler send a fleet to removed them from Spain and welcome them to settle in his kingdom?
    No, I've never heard of this. Most of my knowledge on the Spanish Inquisition comes from historian Henry Kamen who is an ethnic Jew himself. He puts the number of people put to death during the Spanish Inquisition alone, at approximately 5,000 but over several hundreds of years. And that was people including baptized gentile Spaniards to baptized converso Jews and morisco Muslims.

    What I was thinking of was the periodic lynchings of Jews, through Jewish villages, by European lay Catholics. I point out laity because I've personally noticed a pattern throughout the histories I've read over the years. That pattern being almost always it has been Catholic laity lynching people they view as beneath them. This includes in 20th century USA in the Bridgeport neighborhood of the Northern City of Chicago. Often we think of Southern towns and WASP Protestants as being the only ones that have ever lynched people and lynched black people in the United States. But that's not true. It probably happened with more frequency in the South but then again once upon a time the vast majority of blacks lived in the South. Plus, the South was the birth place of the KKK. But that too spread Northward. An untold story is how Catholic lay organizations in Milwaukee literally ran the Klan out of town. But the KKK gained a foothold in the Northern State of Indiana and never let go.

    There have been some rare instances of lynchings by Catholic clergy, very rare. Or so far as I know. Mostly the clergy to their credit treated the lower caste groups better than the laity, at least in the Americas. But not so much with the Jews. The converso Jews fell victim to the Inquisition in the Americas too. And the Inquisition kept pretty good records, so, we know about things they investigated and cases in which people were sentenced to death. So, you have Inquisition records in Brazil recording about investigations into certain matters and finding most the priest in a given area are terrified of some black woman that is known to be basically a "Vodoo" (to use terms we Americans would use) queen/witch . Or about investigating some white slave owner and finding out that he rapes (sexually) his black male slaves.

    With Jewish convsersos in Spain and Spanish America the "innocent vs guilty" in morality and *justice* terms gets more murky and shaded in different colors. At this point I'm recalling another British and award winning historian. Can't recall his name. He stated that it is true that throughout the Spanish Americas the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade was primarily run by converso Jews. And Inquisition records in Mexico record blacks and Amerindians pelting the Jewish converso with fruit as they were being walked to their death. The implication being that the black slaves and the conquered Amerindians viewed the converso Jews as having a major part in their (black and Amerindian) subjugation. So, was it "justice"? Presumably, said converso was at minimum, not morally innocent.

    From what I have read both mestizos and mulattoes disproportionately suffered under the Inquisition throughout the Americas. But very few people tried under the Inquisition were ever given the death sentence. Most were given some other of punishment. And I know in Mexico mestizos and mulattoes were barred from entering the priesthood for a long time. I presume blacks in Mexico too. In the United States no Catholic Bishop in the United States would ordain the "first Black-American priest." What is interesting about that is that Black-American had to travel all the way to Rome, Italy to get ordained as a Priest and was so by the Pope himself. Then he returned back to the USA were he served as a Priest.

  7. #327
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    Re: Do you believe in demons?

    Addition to Post #326.




    Spain and its issues historically with Jews is an interesting one. Traditionally Catholic prejudice towards Jews was religious or at other times ethno-religious. But the Spaniards got kind of American-style racist with it actually. I'm not talking ethnocentric like a white English man having ethnic beef with a white Frenchman. I'm talking about a deeper perception of race to the deep biological core. The Spaniards kind of got like that with their prejudice against Jews. But it is weird because they sexually mixed (reproduced) so heavily with Jews, almost all Spaniards had some Jews in their family tree. Kind of a strange thing. They kicked Jews out of Spain but actually left some living in Spain.

    Anyways... the little I read on the Brazilian Inquisition left me with an interesting picture of Brazil centuries ago and with the Catholic Church there. Some of the records paint a picture out of something like a modern movie. Black vodoo priestess, tempting mulattas on priests, gay priests and gay slave owners. Lots of sin and mingling with people. Inquisition Church investigators knowing about all of it but rarely doing anything to stop it, unless it became a "scandal" to the broader lay community then they would intervene.

  8. #328
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    Re: Do you believe in demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by FastPace View Post
    Addition to Post #326.




    Spain and its issues historically with Jews is an interesting one. Traditionally Catholic prejudice towards Jews was religious or at other times ethno-religious. But the Spaniards got kind of American-style racist with it actually. I'm not talking ethnocentric like a white English man having ethnic beef with a white Frenchman. I'm talking about a deeper perception of race to the deep biological core. The Spaniards kind of got like that with their prejudice against Jews. But it is weird because they sexually mixed (reproduced) so heavily with Jews, almost all Spaniards had some Jews in their family tree. Kind of a strange thing. They kicked Jews out of Spain but actually left some living in Spain.

    Anyways... the little I read on the Brazilian Inquisition left me with an interesting picture of Brazil centuries ago and with the Catholic Church there. Some of the records paint a picture out of something like a modern movie. Black vodoo priestess, tempting mulattas on priests, gay priests and gay slave owners. Lots of sin and mingling with people. Inquisition Church investigators knowing about all of it but rarely doing anything to stop it, unless it became a "scandal" to the broader lay community then they would intervene.
    The motivation for the killing of most Jews in Spain was mainly financial as the members of the Jewish community was given a choice of converting to Catholicism or packing up and leaving.

    Many Jews unwisely claimed to have converted to good Catholics but as if it can be shown or at least claimed that the ex Jews was still secretly Jewish the church then consider them heresy and in that case their wealth could be seized for the crown and the church as they was then torture to death in order to try to get them to confessed so their souls could be save.

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