Page 21 of 33 FirstFirst ... 11192021222331 ... LastLast
Results 201 to 210 of 328

Thread: Do you believe in demons? [W: 312]

  1. #201
    Sage
    Logicman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:39 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    12,850

    Re: Do you believe in demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillRM View Post
    One wonder how you can have personal relationship with a monster.
    That wasn't any monster at Calvary. If you think it was you've got your theology all screwed up.
    "Progressives aren't really progressive. They're regressive, all the way back to Sodom and Gomorrah." - author unknown

  2. #202
    Sage
    Logicman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:39 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    12,850

    Re: Do you believe in demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillRM View Post
    You are a believer in a religion fantasy who main character/god is as evil as any of the other gods mankind had dream up over the eras...
    Nonsense.

    “Whenever a person raises the problem of evil, they are also positing the existence of good. When you say something is evil you assume something is good. If you assume there’s such a thing as good, you also assume there’s such a thing as a moral law on the basis of which to differentiate between good and evil. If you assume there’s such a thing as a moral law, you must posit a moral law giver, because if there’s not a moral law giver, there’s no moral law. If there’s no moral law, there’s no good. If there’s no good, there’s no evil. So what is their question?” – Ravi Zacharias

    So where's all your kudos to God for all the good and wonderful things he's done?
    "Progressives aren't really progressive. They're regressive, all the way back to Sodom and Gomorrah." - author unknown

  3. #203
    Sage


    RAMOSS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:31 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    16,347

    Re: Do you believe in demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Logicman View Post
    Nonsense.

    “Whenever a person raises the problem of evil, they are also positing the existence of good. When you say something is evil you assume something is good. If you assume there’s such a thing as good, you also assume there’s such a thing as a moral law on the basis of which to differentiate between good and evil. If you assume there’s such a thing as a moral law, you must posit a moral law giver, because if there’s not a moral law giver, there’s no moral law. If there’s no moral law, there’s no good. If there’s no good, there’s no evil. So what is their question?” – Ravi Zacharias

    So where's all your kudos to God for all the good and wonderful things he's done?
    That does not answer the dilemma put forth , and it also makes the logical fallacy known as 'building a straw man', as well as the logical fallacy known as equivocation, because to postulate good and evil does not necessarily postulate 'moral law' or a law giver, depending on what the definition of 'good and evil' is, and how 'good and evil' is determined. So, it is a bunk argument that builds a straw man, since that argument isn't being made, it is making false assumptions about possible claims about 'good and evil', and is going through the logical fallacy of equivocation, because it is using specific definitions of what 'Good and Evil' are that presuppose it's conclusions.
    Knee-jerk anti-government sentiment is not a viable political philosophy.

  4. #204
    Sage
    Logicman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:39 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    12,850

    Re: Do you believe in demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMOSS View Post
    That does not answer the dilemma put forth , and it also makes the logical fallacy known as 'building a straw man', as well as the logical fallacy known as equivocation, because to postulate good and evil does not necessarily postulate 'moral law' or a law giver, depending on what the definition of 'good and evil' is, and how 'good and evil' is determined. So, it is a bunk argument that builds a straw man, since that argument isn't being made, it is making false assumptions about possible claims about 'good and evil', and is going through the logical fallacy of equivocation, because it is using specific definitions of what 'Good and Evil' are that presuppose it's conclusions.
    Nonsense, Ramoss. Unlike Biblical Jews and Christians, you don't even have an OBJECTIVE sense of right and wrong. Yours didn't come from God because you don't believe in the Biblical God. Yours is subjective. Subjective moral laws change over time and over cultures. At times they change overnight, like people change their socks. Prohibition is one such example, while vaunted (illicit) gay marriage is another. There's nothing enduring or endearing about that. So nice try, but you struck out again.
    "Progressives aren't really progressive. They're regressive, all the way back to Sodom and Gomorrah." - author unknown

  5. #205
    Sage


    RAMOSS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:31 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    16,347

    Re: Do you believe in demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Logicman View Post
    Nonsense, Ramoss. Unlike Biblical Jews and Christians, you don't even have an OBJECTIVE sense of right and wrong. Yours didn't come from God because you don't believe in the Biblical God. Yours is subjective. Subjective moral laws change over time and over cultures. At times they change overnight, like people change their socks. Prohibition is one such example, while vaunted (illicit) gay marriage is another. There's nothing enduring or endearing about that. So nice try, but you struck out again.
    Actually, Neither biblical jews or Christians have an 'objective' sense of right and wrong either. That is something you fail to realize.
    Knee-jerk anti-government sentiment is not a viable political philosophy.

  6. #206
    Educator Elvira's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Down South
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    1,003

    Re: Do you believe in demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMOSS View Post
    Actually, Neither biblical jews or Christians have an 'objective' sense of right and wrong either. That is something you fail to realize.
    I can't speak for Jews but Christians...TRUE Christians do have an objective sense of right and wrong because they follow the teachings of the God's Written Word...those moral laws have not changed...
    "I am convinced that neither death nor life nor angels nor governments nor things now here nor things to come nor powers nor height nor depth nor any other creation will be able to separate us from Godís love that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.Ē Romans 8:38,39

  7. #207
    Sage


    RAMOSS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:31 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    16,347

    Re: Do you believe in demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elvira View Post
    I can't speak for Jews but Christians...TRUE Christians do have an objective sense of right and wrong because they follow the teachings of the God's Written Word...those moral laws have not changed...
    Let's see you provide evidence that it is an objective sense of right and wrong. First, define what you mean by 'objective sense of right and wrong', and the provide 'how do you know it is objective, rather than subjective'

    Also, show that the moral sense has not changed. In comparison to what??? Can you show historical data that what you consider right and wrong was considered right and wrong 1000 years ago?? Or even 200 years ago?
    Knee-jerk anti-government sentiment is not a viable political philosophy.

  8. #208
    Sage
    Visbek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:45 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    8,853

    Re: Do you believe in demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    From time to time surfing the web I come across some really troubling stories of heinous acts that human beings have engaged in against other human beings. Often they bring me to tears. And today was one such day where a man was convicted of sexually abusing an infant.

    The number of heinous acts committed by some seem to be growing and often they are against our most vulnerable. You can call it mental illness if you like but the level of such heinous acts leads me to believe some people are possessed.

    What say you?
    I hate to be blunt, but...

    That's utterly ludicrous.

    Crime rates in the US have dropped significantly since 1991. Even over the past few years, with all the bad press about crime rates, overall they are still falling.

    What's changed is not human nature. Human beings have done absolutely terrible things to each other since day 1. In the Middle Ages, when religious piety was practically a requirement to participate in society in any way, infanticide was more common than it is today. (In general, crime rates were significantly higher in Medieval Europe than in Europe or the US today.)

    What you're picking up on is that we have better access to news events than ever before. Compounding the issue is that crime sells; outrageous crimes sell even more. We pay much more attention to the negative than the positive, and this is reflected in what the media presents to us, particularly lower quality news outlets and/or ideologically inspired ones that want to push a narrative of decline.

    I.e. 20 years ago, you wouldn't have heard about an obscure cruel act that happened halfway across the US. Today, such news might not only get national coverage for a day, if it's sensational enough it can dominate certain news outlets for weeks or months.


    From a theological perspective, blaming human choices on "demon possession" is pretty weak. If the reason why someone acts immorally is because a supernatural power causes it to do so, then how can you blame any human for that moral failure?

    I assume you (or at least, most participants in this thread) are Christians. How does this work, exactly? God is supposed to give you a free choice. The ability of a demon to literally take over your body or mind negates any possible responsibility the person would have. It's hard to imagine how this could happen without the tacit agreement of God (as the deity clearly has more than enough power to obliterate every demon in the blink of an eye). And yet, God is allegedly perfectly benevolent. To put it another way, invoking demons does not resolve issues of theodicy, nor does it really explain anything. It's a convenient way to refuse to understand psychology and ethics.

    Even more absurdly, what are you going to do -- tell a court that you committed a foul crime because a demon made you do it? The overwhelming majority of Americans are Christians and/or believe in the supernatural, but we all know that line of argument will not fly.

    I think you need a better theory.

  9. #209
    Educator Elvira's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Down South
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    1,003

    Re: Do you believe in demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMOSS View Post
    Let's see you provide evidence that it is an objective sense of right and wrong. First, define what you mean by 'objective sense of right and wrong', and the provide 'how do you know it is objective, rather than subjective'

    Also, show that the moral sense has not changed. In comparison to what??? Can you show historical data that what you consider right and wrong was considered right and wrong 1000 years ago?? Or even 200 years ago?
    I really don't care or concern myself with what others do outside of God's Word...I do know what that says and I do know that to be a Christian, you have to follow what it teaches...if I wanna associate with Christians, that is what I look for..end of story...
    "I am convinced that neither death nor life nor angels nor governments nor things now here nor things to come nor powers nor height nor depth nor any other creation will be able to separate us from Godís love that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.Ē Romans 8:38,39

  10. #210
    Sage


    RAMOSS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:31 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    16,347

    Re: Do you believe in demons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elvira View Post
    I really don't care or concern myself with what others do outside of God's Word...I do know what that says and I do know that to be a Christian, you have to follow what it teaches...if I wanna associate with Christians, that is what I look for..end of story...
    In other words, you can not show your claim that 'true christians follow objective beliefs' is true.
    Knee-jerk anti-government sentiment is not a viable political philosophy.

Page 21 of 33 FirstFirst ... 11192021222331 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •