• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Jesus is the one true God?

Jesus was just a guy... a good guy but just a guy. Married to Mary and probably had kids that the Church deleted from history.
 
BillRM said:
This is your idea of proving that supernatural events had occur!!!!!!!!!

We just going to need to give courses in logical thinking at the high school level.
Click to expand...

Looks like just more hot air instead of a critical thinking rejoinder. You can't bust the evidence so you start with your "high school level" nonsense.
 
Last edited:
sear said:
That's fine. I have a car. That doesn't mean I am a car.

I have a spirit. That doesn't mean I am a spirit.
Same thing for god. "in his own image and likeness". Remember?
Click to expand...

I don't know of one theologian who takes your position. That means that on a Bell Curve that idea is in the abnormal range.
 
"I don't know of one theologian who takes your position. That means that on a Bell Curve that idea is in the abnormal range." Lm #205
Click to expand...
a) Whether your are right or wrong, I'll concede your point (for now) without contest.

b) If you will please pardon my shallow, egotistical boast, I am no theologian.

c) While the Venn diagram shows only a limited overlap between religion and science, my position is not anti-theology; EVEN IF it may be inconsistent with Biblical doctrine.

d) "Truth is not determined by majority opinion." Dr. Italo Benin
Everyone in the world can disagree with me on that fine point. That doesn't mean I'm wrong.

e) You haven't refuted my well-reasoned point; merely contradicted it.

So I find your position emphatic, but quite weak, and extremely unpersuasive; BECAUSE:

Even if Jehovah is both (as you claim we are) when the cosmos was without form and void for that indeterminate time, even if the immortal holy spirit could have sustained for perpetuity without Genesis, the corporeal Jehovah could absolutely not have.

And yet
and yet
and yet:
we are lead to believe the corporeal Jehovah made it not only into Eden (after the 7th day of creation), but all the way to Mary.

If instead of contradicting my position you can refute it, I hope you will.
Until then I have no reason to believe I have not bested you in this specific contest.
 
sear said:
a) Whether your are right or wrong, I'll concede your point (for now) without contest.

b) If you will please pardon my shallow, egotistical boast, I am no theologian.

c) While the Venn diagram shows only a limited overlap between religion and science, my position is not anti-theology; EVEN IF it may be inconsistent with Biblical doctrine.

d) "Truth is not determined by majority opinion." Dr. Italo Benin
Everyone in the world can disagree with me on that fine point. That doesn't mean I'm wrong.

e) You haven't refuted my well-reasoned point; merely contradicted it.

So I find your position emphatic, but quite weak, and extremely unpersuasive; BECAUSE:

Even if Jehovah is both (as you claim we are) when the cosmos was without form and void for that indeterminate time, even if the immortal holy spirit could have sustained for perpetuity without Genesis, the corporeal Jehovah could absolutely not have.

And yet
and yet
and yet:
we are lead to believe the corporeal Jehovah made it not only into Eden (after the 7th day of creation), but all the way to Mary.

If instead of contradicting my position you can refute it, I hope you will.
Until then I have no reason to believe I have not bested you in this specific contest.
Click to expand...

You've got a problem understanding the Bible:

"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Corinthians 2:14
 
""But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Corinthians 2:14
Lm #207
Click to expand...
If a book of the Holy Bible written BC declared that no man had ever walked on the moon it would be true.
If today YOU declared that no man had ever walked on the moon, it would be false.
Realities change. Truisms become falsehoods.
"What goes up must come down."
Click to expand...
Most humans from pre-literate cultures were even if brilliant, uneducated as defined by contemporary standards. Calculus hadn't been invented yet.
Certitudes about "the natural man" written millennia ago do not necessarily apply today.

You wanna play Holy Bible quotation p1$$ing contest?

OK
"there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known." St. Luke 12:2
Click to expand...
It just takes time my cyber-friend.

It's a potential mistake to misunderestimate 3rd Millennium man by Biblical standards, regardless of how valid any Biblical assertion may have been at the time.
 
sear said:
If a book of the Holy Bible written BC declared that no man had ever walked on the moon it would be true.
If today YOU declared that no man had ever walked on the moon, it would be false.
Realities change. Truisms become falsehoods.
Click to expand...


Hmmmmm........not on this one.


There are about 11 verses in the Bible (from different authors, from different timelines), that described the heavens (universe) as "stretching."



Job 9:8
He alone stretches out the heavens _ and treads on the waves of the sea.


Psalm 104:2
The LORD wraps himself in light as with a garment; he stretches out the heavens like a tent


Isaiah 40:22
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.


Isaiah 42:5
This is what God the LORD says the Creator of the heavens, who stretches them out, who spreads out the earth with all that springs from it, who gives breath to its people, and life to those who walk on it


Isaiah 44:24
ÒThis is what the LORD says your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, the Maker of all things, who stretches out the heavens, who spreads out the earth by myself,


Isaiah 45:12
It is I who made the earth and created mankind on it. My own hands stretched out the heavens; I marshaled their starry hosts.


Isaiah 48:13
My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they all stand up together.


Isaiah 51:13
that you forget the LORD your Maker, who stretches out the heavens and who lays the foundations of the earth, that you live in constant terror every day because of the wrath of the oppressor, who is bent on destruction?


Jeremiah 10:12
But God made the earth by his power; he founded the world by his wisdom and stretched out the heavens by his understanding.


Jeremiah 51:15
ÒHe made the earth by his power; he founded the world by his wisdom and stretched out the heavens by his understanding.


Zechariah 12:1
The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares: 2 I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem.




Here's what NASA says:


Did you know that our universe is stretching out in all directions?

It's true!

Ever since the universe began about 13.8 billion years ago, it's been stretching out and expanding.
Click to expand...
https://spaceplace.nasa.gov/universe-slime/en/



Another explanation:

Let me begin by saying that "expanding" isn't really the best word to describe what is happening to the universe, although that is the word that is often used - a word choice which I think leads to a lot of unnecessary confusion regarding what is already a difficult topic!

A more accurate word for what the universe is doing might be "stretching".
Click to expand...
What is the universe expanding into? (Intermediate) - Curious About Astronomy? Ask an Astronomer
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by sear View Post
If a book of the Holy Bible written BC declared that no man had ever walked on the moon it would be true.
If today YOU declared that no man had ever walked on the moon, it would be false.
Realities change. Truisms become falsehoods.
Click to expand...

Nor this one:

The very first statement, in the very first Book of the Bible - it declares that there was a beginning.


Genesis 1

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.




>>>>>>>>>Fast forward to the 20th century! >>>>>>>>



Science discovered the universe had a beginning. It's called, the Big Bang!



Yeah.....realities change.
But with these ones, looks like the other way around.
Science is finally - slowly - catching up with the realities written in the Bible. :lol:
 
Last edited:
sear said:
Most humans from pre-literate cultures were even if brilliant, uneducated as defined by contemporary standards. Calculus hadn't been invented yet.
Certitudes about "the natural man" written millennia ago do not necessarily apply today.
Click to expand...


Yeah......isn't that something?


Who would've thought that what's been recited for thousands of years by uneducated tent-dwellers, would get it bang-on with some of their descriptions......without the aid of telescope, or any scientific instruments?


Only in the last century had those two examples given in the previous posts, discovered by modern science.

Now we know we can take those utterances - stretching heavens, and the beginning - literally!
 
Last edited:
t1 #211

BUT !!

While you and I may be in accord on that point,

my personal preference is to not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I'm not Christian.
I'm not religious in any conventional sense.

But in texts as expansive as the Holy Qur'an, and the Holy Bible, I think we can find ageless wisdom; even if there are some anachronisms as well.
 
sear said:
t1 #211

BUT !!

While you and I may be in accord on that point,

my personal preference is to not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I'm not Christian.
I'm not religious in any conventional sense.

But in texts as expansive as the Holy Qur'an, and the Holy Bible, I think we can find ageless wisdom; even if there are some anachronisms as well.
Click to expand...
:roll:

Wisdom is one thing.

Descriptive information about something with no use of any instruments, by illiterate people - which ended up being proven bang-on by science, 2000+ years later - is definitely quite another!
In fact, it's a different ball game!


If wisdom is gained from experience and learning - how did Bible writers gained their learning in modern cosmology,
or physics?

Btw, those are just two that's been written in the Bible, and proven by science.


I just found the irony quite amusing with your statement -


If a book of the Holy Bible written BC declared that no man had ever walked on the moon it would be true.
If today YOU declared that no man had ever walked on the moon, it would be false.
Realities change. Truisms become falsehoods.
Click to expand...




It's kinda funny that science is trying to catch up with realities....... written in the very distant past!
In comparison to things described in the Bible........... science is very, very, very slow.
 
Last edited:
So is Jesus the one true God or isn't He? We've more than 200 posts for Chrissakes! ;)
 
A #214

Christians think so.

Do the conflicting opinions of others trump theirs? Anymore than theirs trump ours?
 
sear said:
A #214

Christians think so.

Do the conflicting opinions of others trump theirs? Anymore than theirs trump ours?
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about conflicting opinion!


I was responding to your statement about realities. It's the reversed, with what I just pointed out.....
.....science, reaffirming what's been declared thousands of years ago.
Does science's two mentioned discoveries seems conflicting with the Bible? :lol:
 
t1 #216

I'm a disciple of psychologist Joy Browne.

She recounts an occasion while a doctoral candidate, when the professor referred to the patient's awareness of reality.

Candidate Browne asked: "Whose reality?"

Humans are extremely subjective about reality, and rarely fully contend with that subjectivity.
 
Ummm no...Jesus is God's Son...
 
Sherman123 said:
God is not three, God is one.
Click to expand...

Jehovah is God...

Jesus is God's Son...

The Holy Spirit is not a being at all but God's active force...
 
sear said:
You are DIRECTLY contradicting holy scripture.

The Holy Bible clearly and explicitly declares that mankind is made in god's own image and likeness.

If he is spirit (your EXACT assertion) then we are too.

We are not.

So you are wrong.

You are entitled to your own opinion.

You are not entitled to your own facts.

No point in proceeding with your reckless romp in your fantasy land. Have a fantastic day.
Click to expand...

God is a spirit..."God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.” John 4:24

Man is made in the image of God, not in the sense of being a spirit, but in the sense that he was created with moral qualities like those of God, love and justice...man also has power and wisdom above those of animals, so that he can appreciate the things that God enjoys and appreciates, such as beauty and the arts, speaking, reasoning, and similar processes of the mind and heart of which the animals are not capable...man is capable of spirituality, of knowing and having communication with God...that is how man is created in God's image...
 
Elvira said:
Jehovah is God...

Jesus is God's Son...

The Holy Spirit is not a being at all but God's active force...
Click to expand...

I think this is improper monotheism. Permissible to Christians, but only barely, and certainly forbidden to Jews and not ideal.
 
Sherman123 said:
I think this is improper monotheism. Permissible to Christians, but only barely, and certainly forbidden to Jews and not ideal.
Click to expand...

Perhaps but Scripture supports it...
 
"God is a spirit..." E #220
Click to expand...
Spirit can't be nailed to a cross.
"and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.” John 4:24
Click to expand...
Splendid.
That's a description of method of worship, not a description of god.

And though I am not Christian, I've been worshiping with truth from the start.
"I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief." Gerry Spence, Attorney at Law
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom